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Mike2121

Is 7.1 bullshit

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2 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

But that's with speakers, there it actually works if you have the proper number of channels. We are strictly talking about headphones. 

and you can use algorithms to simulate channels down to 2 ?

 

oh wow

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28 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

I don't think that it is a secret that I absolutely hate virtual surround sound, it makes everything sound like pure ass to my ears, even that $200+ sennheiser combo with it build in sounds like ass when you turn on virtual surround sound (not that it is that good of a DAC and amp anyways), it always sounds artificial AF. I have always prefered good old stereo.

 

I have personally never had a problem telling were sounds are coming from in games. 

It might help some people though, but for me it will always be stereo over virtual surround sound, especially if my headphones have a wide soundstage and good imaging.

 

I think where this kind of statement "7.1 surround sound in headphones is it bullshit marketing and stereo better for fps" comes from is when you look at the gaming headsets with virtual surround sound vs similar priced normal headphones, because you will often see a big quality difference between these two. Like the headphones would be able to reproduce more detail than the gaming headset, which would lead you to hear things that you wouldn't be able to hear with the headset.

Also thanks man for backing me up here. A really wish these people wouldn't argue things they don't know about. 

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Just now, pas008 said:

and you can use algorithms to simulate channels down to 2 ?

 

oh wow

Then it's the same problem as headphones. To clarify this for the last time. If audio is recorded in surround, stereo can perfectly reproduce it, but when you take a stereo source and convert it to surround it doesn't work without the proper number of channels, and even still it isn't as good as if it were true surround.

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Just now, Max_Settings said:

Also thanks man for backing me up here. A really wish these people wouldn't argue things they don't know about. 

37 yrs old went to school for electronic engineering changed to accounting later

owned over 50 headphones

many receivers dacs and amps

car stereos

etc

dont know what I'm talking about and hear with my own ears

wow

 

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Just now, pas008 said:

owned over 50 headphones

many receivers dacs and amps

car stereos

You do realize owning something by no means make it to where you know what you are talking about.

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Just now, Max_Settings said:

Then it's the same problem as headphones. To clarify this for the last time. If audio is recorded in surround, stereo can perfectly reproduce it, but when you take a stereo source and convert it to surround it doesn't work without the proper number of channels, and even still it isn't as good as if it were true surround.

I already covered this if you didnt read

i'm talking about a gaming standpoint reread plz do

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Just now, pas008 said:

I already covered this if you didnt read

i'm talking about a gaming standpoint reread plz do

You said in receivers for speakers, what are you talking about?

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3 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

You said in receivers for speakers, what are you talking about?

read farther back plz do

as I talk about gaming stand point etc etc etc

 

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Look man we can argue this all day long, I already know how this is going to end, which is basically what I said before. Neither of us will convince the other one differently. So to try to end it so you stop wasting my time I will repeat what I said before.

 

Once Sennheiser puts virtual surround in an Orpheus headphone, then we'll talk. Until then, farewell, nice talking to you.

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11 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

Look man we can argue this all day long, I already know how this is going to end, which is basically what I said before. Neither of us will convince the other one differently. So to try to end it so you stop wasting my time I will repeat what I said before.

 

Once Sennheiser puts virtual surround in an Orpheus headphone, then we'll talk. Until then, farewell, nice talking to you.

oh nice logic for listening to music or letting the user decide what he wants to listen

why would you need virtual surround for listening to music?

 

and guess these companies didnt spend lots of r and d money on creating them algorithms and patenting them for fake shits and giggles

 

like I said for music listening I will almost always turn it off but there are some pink floyd songs I leave it on for along with few others

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5 minutes ago, pas008 said:

oh nice logic for listening to music or letting the user decide what he wants to listen

why would you need virtual surround for listening to music?

 

and guess these companies didnt spend lots of r and d money on creating them algorithms and patenting them for fake shits and giggles

 

like I said for music listening I will almost always turn it off but there are some pink floyd songs I leave it on for along with few others

Hmm so people who spend thousands of dollars on their surround setups in their theaters shouldn’t listen to music on them?

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4 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

Hmm so people who spend thousands of dollars on their surround setups in their theaters shouldn’t listen to music on them?

what do that have to do with virtual surround used for headphones and our conversation

and with their receivers depending on models it would default to stereo channels unless you use an algorithm to activate it to play on other channels

i beilieve some pink floyd will default to quad channel

wow

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Just now, pas008 said:

what do that have to do with virtual surround used for headphones and our conversation

and with their receivers depending on models it would default to stereo channels unless you use an algorithm to activate it to play on other channels

wow

Because there’s nothing wrong with listen to music in surround. Just not virtual surround. If you have an actual surround speaker system it’s perfectly fine to listen to music on it.

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7 minutes ago, Max_Settings said:

Because there’s nothing wrong with listen to music in surround. Just not virtual surround. If you have an actual surround speaker system it’s perfectly fine to listen to music on it.

5.1 processing/etc algorithms right?

 

some do have setting to force 7.1 stereo though

 

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Will give feedback on this shortly. I did some intense study of this before i went to buy. Problem is that most talk about 7.1 surround when they have never tried it and shops should stop calling it 7.1 when it is actually simulated surround. There is some 5.1 headsets out there and very few 7.1 headsets.

 

After playing PUBG with earplugs that sorta failed on giving stereo i got bored of not hearing where people where shooting at me from so i did the extreme thing and bought a 7.1 soundcard from HT omega and real 7.1 surround sound headset, the Razer Tiamat 7.1 - The Tiamat has 5 separate drivers in each ear. If that does not give a good surround effect nothing will.

 

I will make a review++ when the screen returns next week and update it once the HT omega card arrives. So a review of 7.1, Razer tiamat and the HT omega card.

 

I can reveal that i am not too impressed with first impressions of the headset. It feels cheap. and you do not have detachable cables from the headset to the "mixer" thingy

 

 

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I'd avoid physical 5.1 headsets.  My first "gaming" headset was a Tritton AX Pro physical 5.1 headset.  To be honest I was very disappointed with the positional audio.  I had to play with the delay settings on the decoder box to make it sound surround even though it was getting a true 5.1 signal and sending it properly to it's multiple drivers. 

 

My stereo headsets played on games with good sound engines had better positional audio.

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1 hour ago, Max_Settings said:

Then it's the same problem as headphones. To clarify this for the last time. If audio is recorded in surround, stereo can perfectly reproduce it, but when you take a stereo source and convert it to surround it doesn't work without the proper number of channels, and even still it isn't as good as if it were true surround.

If you just downmix surround sound to stereo normally, you only get 2 angles, so the spatial quality is degraded. What you are trying to do with a headphone surround sound dsp is convert it to binaural and maintain those extra angles. Binaural in this sense means you are putting in the differential loudness and timing information that creates depth on a psychoacoustic level.

 

In response to another discussion, this virtual surround is ironically considered better than the true surround headphones. For those true surround headphones to even work well theoretically, the drivers would have to be equalized in a certain way and connected to each other in a complex way, which I fear manufacturers don't bother with.

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12 hours ago, Drake Mallard said:

Soundstage+Imaging > 7.1

Oh all games have great sound and you need that imaging in gaming

Lol

Pubg

Cod

Shall i continue

 

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I actually wonder how many of these nay sayers here

have actually tried various virtual surround software

I personally was never fond of dolby

 

sbx to me is great helps fix sound in many games that lack

and doesnt hurt pretty much any

fyi I have hd600/he400/shp9500/q701/dt770/fischer clones/cals/etc

so dont tell me its my headphones

it has enhanced my surround gaming setup even more

 

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I tried Dolby headphone and wasn't overly impressed.

I've just decided to stick with stereo.   Like I mentioned earlier some games sound engines handle it well enough on their own that just using stereo you can still hear everything around you nicely.

 

Headphones I use:

When playing alone and not needing to use a mic, I used my Sennheiser 598se

When paying online and needing a mic I use my Cloud II (in stereo mode).  Windows only sees this device as a stereo device anyway and it comes with a 7.1 button which ruins the sound to be honest.  But as far as budget headphones go, they still sound very good in stereo.

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47 minutes ago, pas008 said:

I actually wonder how many of these nay sayers here

have actually tried various virtual surround software

I personally was never fond of dolby

 

sbx to me is great helps fix sound in many games that lack

and doesnt hurt pretty much any

fyi I have hd600/he400/shp9500/q701/dt770/fischer clones/cals/etc

so dont tell me its my headphones

it has enhanced my surround gaming setup even more

 

pretty much them all (at least that I know of), for me it is about the fact that it all sounds artificial to me, not so much anything else. I have also owned one of those true 5.1 headsets from Trition (I think the company is called that). I think that I still have some old creative soundblaster with virtual surround sound laying somewhere...

 

That combined with the fact that I have never had a problem telling where sounds are coming from, so I just run normal stereo. Plus 9/10 times I listen to music while I play, so if it is system wide, like razer surround, the gsx 1000 and 1200 and so on is, then it just fucks over my music too.

 

If it helps someone then that someone should use it. But it has never really helped me, I just end up focusing on how articiail everything sounds to me.


Before you buy amp and dac.  My thoughts on the M50x  Ultimate Ears Reference monitor review I might have a thing for audio...

My main Headphones and IEMs:  K612 pro, HD 25 and Ultimate Ears Reference Monitor, HD 580 with HD 600 grills

DAC and AMP: RME ADI 2 DAC

Speakers: Genelec 8040, System Audio SA205

Receiver: Denon AVR-1612

Desktop: R7 1700, GTX 1080  RX 580 8GB and other stuff

Laptop: ThinkPad P50: i7 6820HQ, M2000M. ThinkPad T420s: i7 2640M, NVS 4200M

Feel free to pm me if you have a question for me or quote me. If you want to hear what I have to say about something just tag me.

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23 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

pretty much them all (at least that I know of), for me it is about the fact that it all sounds artificial to me, not so much anything else. I have also owned one of those true 5.1 headsets from Trition (I think the company is called that). I think that I still have some old creative soundblaster with virtual surround sound laying somewhere...

 

That combined with the fact that I have never had a problem telling where sounds are coming from, so I just run normal stereo. Plus 9/10 times I listen to music while I play, so if it is system wide, like razer surround, the gsx 1000 and 1200 and so on is, then it just fucks over my music too.

 

If it helps someone then that someone should use it. But it has never really helped me, I just end up focusing on how articiail everything sounds to me.

I agree with you on music part

and like anything with sound, people have their preferences

would you argue with someone if they like v shaped sound? no its their preference

virtual surround is the same

and also when people talk about multiple drivers in headphones automatically suck and means shit quality, why argue when many iem have multiple drivers and are heavily sought after

judge on the product itself, I know I havent found something I like and could say is good

but I tell you I am not going to automatically close the book and judge and say it sucks to me when I havent even tried it, just because you are in higher end equipment doesnt mean you must become the typical audiophile elitist

 

Have you tried and experimented with sbx studios?

it does have a surround slider for you to tweak the virtual surround to your likening

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1 minute ago, pas008 said:

I agree with you on music part

and like anything with sound, people have their preferences

would you argue with someone if they like v shaped sound? no its their preference

virtual surround is the same

and also when people talk about multiple drivers in headphones automatically suck and means shit quality, why argue when many iem have multiple drivers and are heavily sought after

 

Have you tried and experimented with sbx studios?

it does have a surround slider for you to tweak the virtual surround to your likening

I mean the most important thing is that the person that uses it likes it, so why care if someone else dislikes it... This is kinda the atitude I recommend having in audio, as long as you don't become too narrow minded.

 

The multiple drivers thing is rather odd. I think it got a bad reputation from headsets like the triton pro +, where every single driver is super low quality and you kinda have this echo effect when playing music because they aren't 100% in sync.

 

It is very common in IEMs, like a fairly common setup in the more higher end IEMs is 3 drivers per side, one for bass, one for mids and one for the highs. We see this exact setup with IEMs like the Ultimate Ears Reference Monitor which are known for being extremely good and well extremely flat for a IEM. There are also IEMs with 6 or more drivers in each side. I think the 18+ Pro has that 6 driver per side setup.

 

Yeah I have tried playing around with sbx. I think the last time I played with it was 1½-2 years ago. I never really got it to work like I wanted it to work, it always had this artificial undertone to it no matter what I did, but I will say it is a lot better than what Razer and Dolby has.


Before you buy amp and dac.  My thoughts on the M50x  Ultimate Ears Reference monitor review I might have a thing for audio...

My main Headphones and IEMs:  K612 pro, HD 25 and Ultimate Ears Reference Monitor, HD 580 with HD 600 grills

DAC and AMP: RME ADI 2 DAC

Speakers: Genelec 8040, System Audio SA205

Receiver: Denon AVR-1612

Desktop: R7 1700, GTX 1080  RX 580 8GB and other stuff

Laptop: ThinkPad P50: i7 6820HQ, M2000M. ThinkPad T420s: i7 2640M, NVS 4200M

Feel free to pm me if you have a question for me or quote me. If you want to hear what I have to say about something just tag me.

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