Denuvo anti-piracy 4.8 has been defeated again

[Doobeedoo]

Devs waste resources with it, to prevent launch piracy, eventually it gets cracked anyway, it just screws actual buyers. It was proven that it's better to go without DRM anyway. They just need to realize that and put effort into game more and not worry so much about piracy. Quality of the game and people voting with their wallets will show.

[MyName13]

30 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

I wouldn't mind that so much if they stripped the protection after the initial sales period had passed.  In fact, it would probably eliminate 90% (or more) of the cracking groups out there, as there'd be no need for them.  By the time they cracked it, the protection would be removed officially.

Someone still has to crack Steam's DRM (or any other DRM), this isn't GOG where you can share games with anyone.

[Bit_Guardian]

39 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

Devs waste resources with it, to prevent launch piracy, eventually it gets cracked anyway, it just screws actual buyers. It was proven that it's better to go without DRM anyway. They just need to realize that and put effort into game more and not worry so much about piracy. Quality of the game and people voting with their wallets will show.

Proven by whom?

[suicidalfranco]

7 minutes ago, Bit_Guardian said:

Proven by whom?

the EU

CD Project red

GoG

[Doobeedoo]

1 minute ago, Bit_Guardian said:

Proven by whom?

There was a EU study about it. Also GoG proves it in it's own way. It's not necessary as companies try to show it. 

[Derangel]

9 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

the EU

CD Project red

GoG

The EU report said that piracy seems to have no effect on game sales. It did not say that games sell better without DRM.

Well you have one game that launched without DRM, two that launched with it and later removed it. They prove exceptions exist, but not proof that it is always the case.

And yet AAA games don't release on GoG at release very often and I've yet to see an indie say that their game sold better on GoG than on Steam (which is DRM).

[Doobeedoo]

4 hours ago, CommandMan7 said:

The best way to stop piracy is increase access and ease of use to consumers. Just look at what Spotify has done to music piracy; of course, it will never go away completely, but the average person no longer wants to go through the hassle of downloading mp3's of questionable quality from some unknown site and then having to manually sync them to all their devices. It's far easier to just get spotify and access all of the music you want for ad supported free or with an ad free subscription across all your devices. 

 

It seems a lot of the games frequently locked down with Denuvo and other DRM are ones that are not accessible on steam, only being available on Uplay or Origin. Perhaps if Ubisoft and EA would just admit steam is better and release their games there, piracy would decrease.

Personally I'd never use something like that though. I like having my music locally with good quality coded and bitrate. Don't want subscription for something like that and have to rely on internet for it.

Depends on game and which company. Some being only Uplay and some only Origin such games are known to be so since being from Ubisoft or EA though. They do have some of their games on Steam too. While something like ME:A is not AC:O is. I get it's neat to have all games in once place, but competition is always good too. Steam is also form of DRM though. And as far as GoG they do it without it.

[Jito463]

1 hour ago, MyName13 said:

Someone still has to crack Steam's DRM (or any other DRM), this isn't GOG where you can share games with anyone.

There's a reason I said "90%" rather than all of them (90%, of course, being merely a guesstimate).

 

Epic Games used to strip the protection from the Unreal Tournament games after the first few weeks of sales.  I just wish more developers would do that.

[mrthuvi]

2 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

There's a reason I said "90%" rather than all of them (90%, of course, being merely a guesstimate).

 

Epic Games used to strip the protection from the Unreal Tournament games after the first few weeks of sales.  I just wish more developers would do that.

Many dev remove protection as soon as they are cracked. Denuvo protected Doom 2016 for example.

[Jito463]

10 minutes ago, mrthuvi said:

Many dev remove protection as soon as they are cracked. Denuvo protected Doom 2016 for example.

Many?  I doubt that.  Some yes, but not "many".  I'd wager there's very few devs (or more accurately, publishers) who do so.

[Bit_Guardian]

59 minutes ago, Doobeedoo said:

There was a EU study about it. Also GoG proves it in it's own way. It's not necessary as companies try to show it. 

But GoG only deals in end-of-life games anyway. It's not a platform for new releases. And the E.U. study isn't exactly robust.

[Doobeedoo]

29 minutes ago, Bit_Guardian said:

But GoG only deals in end-of-life games anyway. It's not a platform for new releases. And the E.U. study isn't exactly robust.

Point is that DRM is not necessary or the best way though, and operating like GoG with maybe some differences can be a thing, a good thing. And Steam is still form of DRM though, some games on it even require or did require additional one. As far as EU study I remember there was ton of what was released later on, there was even mention about that piracy can increase sales in a way, like how people tend to try it out, like it and buy it eventually. To support and or to play online or maybe receive updates and so. It was a while back as far as study. 

Maybe we'll see some bigger changes in future how online game stores handle selling games. It would be bad to let steam have monopoly and not competition, case it needs it. Steam is not perfect by any means. No one want fragmentation sure and DRM as well.

 

Hopefully companies realize that going with unfinished broken games and microtransaction, lootboxes is a very bad thing and quality game can and will speak for it self and reputation of company. People will support it with buying it.

[AresKrieger]

DRM is a waste of time, I'm less likely to buy a game with heavy DRM due to the DRM, and it rarely stops piracy for more than 2 days and when it does it often renders the game barely playable.

 

CD Projekt Red know the score and I'm glad they exist

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Doobeedoo said:

Personally I'd never use something like that though. I like having my music locally with good quality coded and bitrate. Don't want subscription for something like that and have to rely on internet for it.

Depends on game and which company. Some being only Uplay and some only Origin such games are known to be so since being from Ubisoft or EA though. They do have some of their games on Steam too. While something like ME:A is not AC:O is. I get it's neat to have all games in once place, but competition is always good too. Steam is also form of DRM though. And as far as GoG they do it without it.

Spotify has offline music with 320 bitrate my dude. It’s pretty well worth it for $5 a month. 

[Doobeedoo]

12 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Spotify has offline music with 320 bitrate my dude. It’s pretty well worth it for $5 a month. 

Nah, nothing special. Why would I even need it then, doesn't it have limit like it says on site? Not worth it I say. Anyone I know doesn't want to use such service.

[pipnina]

7 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Look at GoG. They took away all DRM and more people buy it then pirate

My friend had Witcher 3 when it first launched. I was intrigued by it but wasn't keen to spend £30+ on it without knowing if i'd like it. He let me download the game through his GoG login. I played about 20 hours and ended up buying it because I knew I was and would continue to enjoy it.

 

Remember when games used to give you 33% of their content in demos? Turns out even today if people like a sample of your game they're more likely to buy the whole thing.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Doobeedoo said:

Nah, nothing special. Why would I even need it then, doesn't it have limit like it says on site? Not worth it I say. Anyone I know doesn't want to use such service.

No limit at all. It’s pretty much search for what you want and it’s there. Highest bitrate. I got it for free with a phone plan but now I pay for it. It’s well worth it. 

[ApolloX75]

I remember when "DRM" consisted of a hunt through the manual for page 53 word 5 on line 7. If you didn't have the manual you had a useless stack of floppy disks.

 

DRM today is ridiculous, even compared to that.

[Doobeedoo]

6 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

No limit at all. It’s pretty much search for what you want and it’s there. Highest bitrate. I got it for free with a phone plan but now I pay for it. It’s well worth it. 

I mean for offline it says you can download up to 3333 songs per device on max of 3 devices. That's with premium which is $10 it says. I mean it's not even available for my country, would need to use VPN too. Also, I really don't need it. Keeping everything locally where ever I want it so.

[Bit_Guardian]

1 hour ago, Doobeedoo said:

Point is that DRM is not necessary or the best way though, and operating like GoG with maybe some differences can be a thing, a good thing. And Steam is still form of DRM though, some games on it even require or did require additional one. As far as EU study I remember there was ton of what was released later on, there was even mention about that piracy can increase sales in a way, like how people tend to try it out, like it and buy it eventually. To support and or to play online or maybe receive updates and so. It was a while back as far as study. 

Maybe we'll see some bigger changes in future how online game stores handle selling games. It would be bad to let steam have monopoly and not competition, case it needs it. Steam is not perfect by any means. No one want fragmentation sure and DRM as well.

 

Hopefully companies realize that going with unfinished broken games and microtransaction, lootboxes is a very bad thing and quality game can and will speak for it self and reputation of company. People will support it with buying it.

Piracy does not lead to more sales. These companies aren't stupid. They wouldn't continue to spend resources on DRM if they had solid evidence that it wasn't paying for itself. They actually tend to study things more thoroughly than market regulatory bodies.

 

Sorry but financially for them microtransactions, DRM, and loot boxes are a good bet that makes them more money. I'm sorry but game quality does not do all the talking. You only have to see Zelda Breath of the Wild, Okami, and the Dark Souls series to see that. They're beautiful games crafted by the very best and are a joy to play. They still aren't that popular on the whole.

[jagdtigger]

3 minutes ago, Bit_Guardian said:

Piracy does not lead to more sales. These companies aren't stupid. They wouldn't continue to spend resources on DRM if they had solid evidence that it wasn't paying for itself. They actually tend to study things more thoroughly than market regulatory bodies.

 

Sorry but financially for them microtransactions, DRM, and loot boxes are a good bet that makes them more money. I'm sorry but game quality does not do all the talking. You only have to see Zelda Breath of the Wild, Okami, and the Dark Souls series to see that. They're beautiful games crafted by the very best and are a joy to play. They still aren't that popular on the whole.

CDPR, Witcher Franchise... Solid enough for you? And yes, quality does all the talking, no sane person would buy a game if its trash, no matter what the marketing department does...

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, jagdtigger said:

And yes, quality does all the talking, no sane person would buy a game if its trash, no matter what the marketing department does...

COD? 

[Derangel]

11 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

CDPR, Witcher Franchise... Solid enough for you? And yes, quality does all the talking, no sane person would buy a game if its trash, no matter what the marketing department does...

You have one example. One proves an exception, it does not show a trend. And it happens all the damn time. EA Battlefront 1 sold 14 million copies in a few months. Battlefront 2, with all of its crap, still seems to have sold reasonably well. COD WW2, despite being an even worse game than the previous one, massively outsold it. Aliens: Colonial Marines outsold Isolation, by a rather large amount. No Man's Sky, Homefront 1, Kinect Adventures, Enter the Matrix. All of them are abysmal games and they all sold well. Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games was a pretty crap mini-game collection and sold over 7 million copies.

[Doobeedoo]

14 minutes ago, Bit_Guardian said:

Piracy does not lead to more sales. These companies aren't stupid. They wouldn't continue to spend resources on DRM if they had solid evidence that it wasn't paying for itself. They actually tend to study things more thoroughly than market regulatory bodies.

 

Sorry but financially for them microtransactions, DRM, and loot boxes are a good bet that makes them more money. I'm sorry but game quality does not do all the talking. You only have to see Zelda Breath of the Wild, Okami, and the Dark Souls series to see that. They're beautiful games crafted by the very best and are a joy to play. They still aren't that popular on the whole.

It's not all black and white. Some games that didn't have DRM were pirated but many that did also bought it later on. And if game is great and proven within some time, many will praise it and recommend to buy it. They want to rely on initial launch interval for sales, therefore DRM so, they want to ensure certain quota of sales that way. But if certain games actually worked properly on launch and not require huge updates of fixes and DLC slicing from overall planned game before release even, then maybe many would be ready to pay for that game. Or you know, actually pre-prder with joy knowing they will get quality for their money. They definitely study the market, they also ignore stuff. 

It's really lame and terrible having DLC already like done months before vanilla game launches, it's such a joke. And again some games releasing unoptimized for a while after release and/or even buggy as well. Shortly, rushed. Those that are smart don't want to support such practice. Because it's an insult. Therefore many will pirate to see if game is good and some will buy, maybe larger portion won't cause they don't want to support that way of business.

On the other hand, certain game series reputation is also to take into account and many sheep that would buy it without question. Huge sales = success business wise, doesn't say game is great quality as well automatically. 

 

If for a game there's a need for microtransactions and loot boxes it's either a f2p game or a game where it's targeted as like main thing for keeping players to come back to it. If you need such things in a game to keep making players back, then game it self is usually bad. And yes game quality does speak for it self, if you look on it as consumer side that doesn't want to be scammed and not from corporate greed side. 
There are many games, for like Dark Souls many see it as very hard and are turned off by that. The Witcher is amazing series. 

Game being popular doesn't make it a good game. Depends if you talk about f2p or not. Like top f2p games LoL and HS they're both meh. One of like top buyed games being CoD doesn't make it amazing game. It's still really much same thing every release.

 

Some amazing games may not get a ton of attention cause of not very known company, not huge advertisement, or it's new and not continuation in series. Showing microtransactions and lootboxes in every game is terrible and it certain games can dilute quality in certain ways. Also remember there are many sheeps that just play cause of freaking skins and gameplay is second to them.

[Bit_Guardian]

31 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

CDPR, Witcher Franchise... Solid enough for you? And yes, quality does all the talking, no sane person would buy a game if its trash, no matter what the marketing department does...

And plenty of people would pirate a quality game when it costs $70 to buy. Sorry but DRM is a necessary evil because a few (tens of thousands) bad apples spoil the bunch. These companies know for a fact that the DRM investments they make pay for themselves. Successful companies are not run by fools. They don't waste time on increasing costs if they don't have to.

 

31 minutes ago, leadeater said:

COD? 

thank-YOU!