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R3ep3r

GPU prices all over the world.

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10 hours ago, NelizMastr said:

Wrong. The fabs are at max capacity, so there is nothing that can be done about it, other than outlawing crypto currency worldwide.

So where the fuck are the GPUs? O3O


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Apple A4 - Apple iPod touch (4th generation)
Apple A5 - Apple iPod touch (5th generation)
MIPS R4000 - Sony PlayStation Portable (PSP-3000)
MSM8926 - Microsoft Lumia 640 LTE
MSM8974AA - Blackberry Passport
MT2601 - TicWatch E
MT6580 - Tecno Spark 2 (1GB RAM)
MT6592M - my|phone my32 (orange)
MT6592M - my|phone my32 (yellow)
MT6735 - HMD Nokia 3 Dual SIM
MT6737 - Cherry Mobile Flare S6
MT6739 - my|phone myX8 (blue)
MT6739 - my|phone myX8 (gold)
MT6750 - Huawei honor 6C Pro / V9 Play
MT6797D (Helio X23) - my|phone Brown Tab 1
SDM710 - Oppo Realme 3 Pro
 
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Miners buy them directly from importers and distributors, sometimes they never get to the retail stores.

 

They often come in batches because they ship them by boats, which take a significant amount of time to arrive in your country (1-2 weeks maybe, maybe more). So you have a few containers with video cards (let's say a batch of 10k pieces) every couple weeks which then distributor sends to various stores if he even bothers, because someone could come with a truck and say something like "i'll give you 10$ per card to take them off your hands now and save you shipping and distribution costs" 

 

Store employees sometimes buy them or put them aside for family members or friends to buy if the store has no sale to employee policies, in order to resale on ebay at a profit...

 

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3 hours ago, Nena360 said:

So where the fuck are the GPUs? O3O

Being sold, didn't take a detective to figure that one out lol. 

 

Seriously, what? 

 

 


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43 minutes ago, miagisan said:

Being sold, didn't take a detective to figure that one out lol. 

 

Seriously, what? 

 

 

Yes to the miners! :(


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Complete portable device SoC history:
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Apple A4 - Apple iPod touch (4th generation)
Apple A5 - Apple iPod touch (5th generation)
MIPS R4000 - Sony PlayStation Portable (PSP-3000)
MSM8926 - Microsoft Lumia 640 LTE
MSM8974AA - Blackberry Passport
MT2601 - TicWatch E
MT6580 - Tecno Spark 2 (1GB RAM)
MT6592M - my|phone my32 (orange)
MT6592M - my|phone my32 (yellow)
MT6735 - HMD Nokia 3 Dual SIM
MT6737 - Cherry Mobile Flare S6
MT6739 - my|phone myX8 (blue)
MT6739 - my|phone myX8 (gold)
MT6750 - Huawei honor 6C Pro / V9 Play
MT6797D (Helio X23) - my|phone Brown Tab 1
SDM710 - Oppo Realme 3 Pro
 
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On 1/22/2018 at 9:01 AM, mariushm said:

There are ASIC resistant coins like Ethereum or any other Equihash based coin - the algorithm behind the coin is designed in such a way as to require lots of memory and lots of FAST memory ... currently in order to mine Ethereum for example, the mining software uses up to around 2.4 GB of memory on the video card and reads bytes from that chunk of data at a speed of around 160-200 GB/s

 

If someone wants to create an ASIC he or she would have to license or make an expensive GDDR5 memory controller which adds loads of surface area to the chip making it way more expensive to make compared to other ASICs for other coins, and he still has to buy 4 GB of GDDR5 for each chip.

 

You can't use a SDRAM or DDR1/2/3 memory controller that may be available open source to mine ethereum, the bandwidth of such memory types is just too little (20-50 GB/s compared to 5-10x that on video cards)

 

The ASICs used to mine bitcoin for example are made out of lots of very tiny chips (a 2-3000$ ASIC has something like 168 chips each with some tiny amount of work memory, like 1-64 MB of memory)... as an analogy it's like trying to make a mining rig with 2-300 video cards, each maybe 1/4 of what a RX 550 card can do

 

Point acknowledged.

There are people saying manufacturers don't want to make more cards because if cryptomining falls they'll flood the market with used cards and everyone will pick them up leaving the new cards on the shelves. I disagree with this. Make more cards so people can buy them reasonably priced because NOBODY WANTS A USED CARD because of cryptomining. If they're damaged or dying or FAKE, like the market has also been flooded with, then consumers will lose even more faith because the companies refuse to give us stock.

The companies are also saying to stop miners from buying cards. How exactly can you do that? Limit a purchase to just 2 at a time...they'll just make more than one transaction. Ask if they're mining? Nobody's business. Good luck going door to door and saying "HEY! You got too many graphics cards in here! Stop buying them!"

How did cryptocurrency become a legitimately recognized currency in the first place? How did it become more valuable than actual money?

Fuck, if we can just make up a new kind of money every week I hereby declare the initiation of Derpencoin, a currency only available to me, is worth $30,000,000,000 per coin and there is only one available and I own it. Bid starts at $4,000,000.

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12 minutes ago, dragonhart6505 said:

How did cryptocurrency become a legitimately recognized currency in the first place? How did it become more valuable than actual money?

Fuck, if we can just make up a new kind of money every week I hereby declare the initiation of Derpencoin, a currency only available to me, is worth $30,000,000,000 per coin and there is only one available and I own it. Bid starts at $4,000,000.

The big deal about cryptocurrency is that no single entity controls it (it's decentralized) and transactions (for some coins) are permanent and non reversible and for some coins the transactions are completely anonymous.  There's no gatekeepers, no middle men.

There's no Visa or Mastercard charging 0.5% + 0.3$ for every credit card swipe (or whatever it is these days),

There's no Paypal to take 1$ fee when receiving money from friends,

There's no "we the bank don't want to take your money because we don't like cannabis businesses"

There's no "customer says his card got stolen so we're giving him his money back and you the store owner are out of luck"

There's no "customer started a paypal dispute and we don't care you sent the product, he says he never received it so we revert the transaction"

 

There's no "oh, your friend sent you some money to your bank account but it was on Friday at 19:00 and bank is closed on weekends, so any incoming transaction from Friday 12:00 onwards is only processed on Monday at 9 AM so you'll get the money in your bank account at that point" .. this one actually happened to me two weeks ago.

 

I could right now open up the wallet and sent you 100$ in cryptocurrency and you'll get the coins within minutes if I want to. It's up to me if I say i'm ok with paying a higher transaction fee (for example 0.5$) to have the transaction recorded within 1-2 minutes (for example in case of Ethereum in the next 10 blocks, each new block being created every 16 seconds) or if i'm cheapskate i can offer to pay only 0.05$ in transaction fees and have my transaction recorded and processed within 8-12 hours.

 

Can't do that with Paypal or with bank transfers or any reasonable method... and this is just a minimal benefit.

Can't create coins and currency all of the sudden, the coins are created by miners and the amount created is fixed over time... for example in the case of Ethereum right now the reward is 3 ETH + ~ 0.5 ETH from transaction fees for every block mined, which happens every 16 seconds.. so you know there's 225 blocks per hour, 5400 blocks per day,  or almost 2 million blocks per year, so at most you get 6.000.000 eth a year or something like that.

 

Sure, they could in theory alter the algorithm and if more than 50% of miners agree to the changes then you may have more or less coins created with each block, but that will be reflected on exchanges, people would be willing to buy or sell that coin for different amount of money.

 

 

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2 hours ago, mariushm said:

*snip*

But it has no backing. Some math is being done by a piece of hardware and all of a sudden you have money. It not being regulated or tracked...i understand that appeal, but where does this invisible money come from? Who pays out the "coins"? Why do people care about its worth when the only worth it has is the time a piece of hardware spent creating it out of thin air? Nobody did anything to earn it. You spend more than you're making back in an immediate investment.

I thought Bitcoin at first was meant to allow the community of PC users to donate their unused resources from computer hardware to solve complicated mathematical equations for science. What sciences? Who is taking our resources? When will we see what this has all amounted to? What benefit is there to this and who is it benefitting? Now it's paid out based on how much time and energy and money do you feel like wasting to let your computer run forever while you practically can't use it because it's resources are tied up in a command prompt!

Oh and then there's the pool! Why doesn't this invisible money get divided out evenly among everybody contributing? What makes your system so much better at hashing than my system? Why do you make more invisible money because you spent more real money on better hardware? Cryptomining doesn't sound like a fair establishment.

I just don't get it...

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Sigh ... explaining in super simple terms.... and I'll use Ethereum for this as I did some reading on it compared to other coins.

 

The code of the coin is designed in such a way as to have a block created at a regular time interval, Ethereum has this set at 16 seconds. You have a lot of computers (miners) all over the world which are connected together to the network, and automatically it's determined that all these people can perform a certain number of calculations per second, so the "difficulty" of mining is scaled automatically so that a new block will be discovered in 16 seconds. Sometimes it's a bit less, sometimes it's a bit more, it's self scaling aiming to be at 16 seconds.

These blocks are added to the blockchain and each block is basically a ledger, it contains a list of transactions, account creations, changes to accounts... basically the miner that discovers the block needs to pick a bunch of pending transactions from the network and include them in the block and then submit the block to the network where it's appended to the chain. If this is successful, this miner is rewarded with 3 Ethereum, plus around 0.5 eth from all those included transactions (when you want to transfer some money to someone, you send the amount and you also specify that you're willing to pay up to some value in transaction fees).

Those 3 ETH are "born" when that block is appended to the chain and the miner receives it as reward for mining (using up electricity, aging hardware etc) and for adding those transactions to the blockchain.

The idea behind mining is that the waste of electricity, the aging of hardware, all that is a way to prevent bad people from easily trying to subvert the blockchain, to add bad blocks, to add fake transactions. If you're a bad miner and you try to add a block to the chain with some fake transactions, the other miners in the network inspect the block and its contents and majority will reject your block and you lose that 3 ETH and you lose time and money in electricity.

 

You're wrong when you say nobody did anything to earn it - the miner invested money in hardware, invested money in electricity, in cooling the hardware, and provides a service to the network  ... think of the miners as the datacenters where VISA or Mastercard store hundreds of servers which have the only purpose of validating transactions between accounts - each time you go at a store and swipe your card, that swipe goes to a datacenter to one of hundreds or thousands of computers "wasting electricity" while waiting to receive transactions to validate and then tell banks to move money between accounts.

 

Visa and Mastercard don't make those credit cards work for free, they charge shop owners with a fixed amount of money and some percentage of total transaction cost every time you swipe a card .. here's an article showing some fees  - instead of the shop owner paying visa or mastercard, you pay the miner that puts your transaction in the block directly a smaller fee, and the miner also gets a reward for mining.

 

The beauty of a blockchain is that anyone can download the whole chain from start to the current block (for ethereum it's currently at around 450-500 GB but a "light node" only needs around 60 GB) and if you have a wallet address, you can go through each block and make a list of transactions and changes from the creation of the wallet to the current block. If you have those keys of the wallet, wherever you are in the world, you can make payments or receive payments in your wallet.

 

The money created when blocks are created is finite and limited supply... it's not like how a government can create millions of dollars over night by selling bonds (basically promises) or how the government gives loans to big banks and car companies so they won't fail

 

The actual value of the coin depends on the finite amount and the value people and investors put it it, how much they're willing to buy coins and sell coins for, you can easily go to an exchange or trading website and buy or sell these coins. And.. it's almost instant, unlike regular stocks where you sometimes place buy or sell orders and you get the money days after.


Ethereum has value because it provides a platform on which various applications can work, and on which you can create tokens and do stuff, it's "smart contracts" , "Smart money" .. lots of things.  It has a lot of benefits besides just "store of value" which Bitcoin kinda is these days.

 

In the case of Ethereum, they also plan to add "proof of stake" besides "proof of work" - so instead of mining you basically put some amount of ETH as a collateral, you kinda "lock" them in a "safety deposit box"  for some duration. During this time, you engage as a validator making sure the transactions are valid and you add such transactions to blocks and keep the network functioning and you also validate the blocks other former miners try to create. Some "miners" check your work, you check other miners work, and if everyone agrees a block is then added to the chain and everyone that collaborated to that block addition is rewarded some percentage, based on how much they put as collateral at the beginning. If you add some transactions that prove to be fake or bad and other member catch that, you would be fined some amount, and you may lose some part of that collateral.... so it's in your best interest to be a correct, honest validator.

You still have to "block" some funds for a duration of time, you still need to  have a computer performing some computations, verifying transactions but you won't have to mine and use as much electricity and potentially this could mean creating blocks at smaller periods of time (because there's a limited number of transactions that can be recorded in a block, and if more people will use ethereum the whole network will be constantly at peak capacity otherwise. 

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47 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Sigh ... explaining in super simple terms.... and I'll use Ethereum for this as I did some reading on it compared to other coins.

 

The code of the coin is designed in such a way as to have a block created at a regular time interval, Ethereum has this set at 16 seconds. You have a lot of computers (miners) all over the world which are connected together to the network, and automatically it's determined that all these people can perform a certain number of calculations per second, so the "difficulty" of mining is scaled automatically so that a new block will be discovered in 16 seconds. Sometimes it's a bit less, sometimes it's a bit more, it's self scaling aiming to be at 16 seconds.

These blocks are added to the blockchain and each block is basically a ledger, it contains a list of transactions, account creations, changes to accounts... basically the miner that discovers the block needs to pick a bunch of pending transactions from the network and include them in the block and then submit the block to the network where it's appended to the chain. If this is successful, this miner is rewarded with 3 Ethereum, plus around 0.5 eth from all those included transactions (when you want to transfer some money to someone, you send the amount and you also specify that you're willing to pay up to some value in transaction fees).

Those 3 ETH are "born" when that block is appended to the chain and the miner receives it as reward for mining (using up electricity, aging hardware etc) and for adding those transactions to the blockchain.

The idea behind mining is that the waste of electricity, the aging of hardware, all that is a way to prevent bad people from easily trying to subvert the blockchain, to add bad blocks, to add fake transactions. If you're a bad miner and you try to add a block to the chain with some fake transactions, the other miners in the network inspect the block and its contents and majority will reject your block and you lose that 3 ETH and you lose time and money in electricity.

 

You're wrong when you say nobody did anything to earn it - the miner invested money in hardware, invested money in electricity, in cooling the hardware, and provides a service to the network  ... think of the miners as the datacenters where VISA or Mastercard store hundreds of servers which have the only purpose of validating transactions between accounts - each time you go at a store and swipe your card, that swipe goes to a datacenter to one of hundreds or thousands of computers "wasting electricity" while waiting to receive transactions to validate and then tell banks to move money between accounts.

 

Visa and Mastercard don't make those credit cards work for free, they charge shop owners with a fixed amount of money and some percentage of total transaction cost every time you swipe a card .. here's an article showing some fees  - instead of the shop owner paying visa or mastercard, you pay the miner that puts your transaction in the block directly a smaller fee, and the miner also gets a reward for mining.

 

The beauty of a blockchain is that anyone can download the whole chain from start to the current block (for ethereum it's currently at around 450-500 GB but a "light node" only needs around 60 GB) and if you have a wallet address, you can go through each block and make a list of transactions and changes from the creation of the wallet to the current block. If you have those keys of the wallet, wherever you are in the world, you can make payments or receive payments in your wallet.

 

The money created when blocks are created is finite and limited supply... it's not like how a government can create millions of dollars over night by selling bonds (basically promises) or how the government gives loans to big banks and car companies so they won't fail

 

The actual value of the coin depends on the finite amount and the value people and investors put it it, how much they're willing to buy coins and sell coins for, you can easily go to an exchange or trading website and buy or sell these coins. And.. it's almost instant, unlike regular stocks where you sometimes place buy or sell orders and you get the money days after.


Ethereum has value because it provides a platform on which various applications can work, and on which you can create tokens and do stuff, it's "smart contracts" , "Smart money" .. lots of things.  It has a lot of benefits besides just "store of value" which Bitcoin kinda is these days.

 

In the case of Ethereum, they also plan to add "proof of stake" besides "proof of work" - so instead of mining you basically put some amount of ETH as a collateral, you kinda "lock" them in a "safety deposit box"  for some duration. During this time, you engage as a validator making sure the transactions are valid and you add such transactions to blocks and keep the network functioning and you also validate the blocks other former miners try to create. Some "miners" check your work, you check other miners work, and if everyone agrees a block is then added to the chain and everyone that collaborated to that block addition is rewarded some percentage, based on how much they put as collateral at the beginning. If you add some transactions that prove to be fake or bad and other member catch that, you would be fined some amount, and you may lose some part of that collateral.... so it's in your best interest to be a correct, honest validator.

You still have to "block" some funds for a duration of time, you still need to  have a computer performing some computations, verifying transactions but you won't have to mine and use as much electricity and potentially this could mean creating blocks at smaller periods of time (because there's a limited number of transactions that can be recorded in a block, and if more people will use ethereum the whole network will be constantly at peak capacity otherwise. 

All you're explaining is how mining itself works, which I already understand. What you're not telling me is WHY. What transactions, why do these blocks exist, who is using your hardware for the mining, who determines how much value 1 ETH/BTC is worth, why is any of this important or worth the $19,000 real - USD that BTC was valued at a few weeks ago?! None of any of this makes sense. To me, you just sound like your saying "mining was created to give us free money". If it's finite, how much cryptocurrency is available in total and when does it run out? What happens to all YOUR ETH/BTC when there is no more to mine? What value will any of this imaginary money have when there is no more imaginary money to get? What's stopping somebody from just flipping the switch and making all of this imaginary money disappear?

 

It's illogical is all I'm saying

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4 minutes ago, dragonhart6505 said:

All you're explaining is how mining itself works, which I already understand. What you're not telling me is WHY. What transactions, why do these blocks exist, who is using your hardware for the mining, who determines how much value 1 ETH/BTC is worth, why is any of this important or worth the $19,000 real - USD that BTC was valued at a few weeks ago?! None of any of this makes sense. To me, you just sound like your saying "mining was created to give us free money". If it's finite, how much cryptocurrency is available in total and when does it run out? What happens to all YOUR ETH/BTC when there is no more to mine? What value will any of this imaginary money have when there is no more imaginary money to get? What's stopping somebody from just flipping the switch and making all of this imaginary money disappear?

 

It's illogical is all I'm saying

Really ?!!

 

why do these blocks exist = because it's a simple way of recording transactions, of having history for any accounts, it's like pages in a book that keep track of past transactions.

who is using your hardware for the mining = nobody uses your hardware for mining. You're free to be a regular user who simply has a wallet with coins and buys stuff with them, or sells coins using the network of that coin. If you want to be a miner and be a part of the network and receive coins as reward, you can. If you don't, you can buy these coins like you'd do from any bank, money exchange, like you'd buy some foreign currency.

 

who determines how much value 1 ETH/BTC is worth = the people that buy or sell these coins on exchanges. I can go on an exchange and say I want to sell this amount for 1000$ and if someone wants to offer that much, i'll sell it to them.

why is any of this important or worth the $19,000 real  = imho bitcoin is not worth $19k because of lots of reasons but other cryptocurrencies are worth whatever the people using them deem they're worth due to the benefits they bring (decentralized, no banks involved or governments, no middle man, easy transfers of coins, low transaction fees, making it possible to do things with them in new ways)

 

If it's finite, how much cryptocurrency is available in total and when does it run out?

 

You can see how many coins some currencies have and their value here: https://coinmarketcap.com/

 

It varies from coin to coin and how it's designed. For some coins, they're designed in such a way as to account for inflation or for advances in hardware (for example, if it's twice as easy to mine a block, then the reward for mining a block is reduced to a half). Others have some thresholds at which amount issued is reduced ... for example, from block ### which will be mined in 2020, reward will be lowered to half the current reward.

 

For Ethereum, right now there's 97,165,135 ETH and like i said, every block that's created adds 3 ETH to the circulation. So you can do the math, there's only so many seconds in a year, you can figure out how much ETH is gonna be a year from now.

 

Any change to the system decided beforehand would have to be accepted by more than 51% of the miners in the network.. for example, because anyone can contribute to the source code behind Ethereum, I could contribute some code that would change the amount of ethereum issued for every block from 3 to 300 but in order for this change to be active, more than 51% of the miners would have to update to the new version of the software which includes my change, and they wouldn't because there's no benefit for them.  Anyone that uses a version of the software that's in minority will have their work (whatever they mine) invalidated and wouldn't get any rewards so they just waste money on electricity and all that.

In extreme cases, such disagreements result to forks, where you end up with two coins.. as it was the case with Ethereum and Ethereum Classic which are now two separate currencies... a large enough amount of people disagreed with some changes Ethereum developers agreed with, and they decided to create separate currency without those changes they didn't agree with.

 

 

What happens to all YOUR ETH/BTC when there is no more to mine?  = NOTHING, you still have it, you can still use it like regular money. What happens if the US government doesn't print dollars anymore? The current dollars are still in the world and you'd still be able to use them.  Why don't you worry about what happens when your US government prints more dollars every day?

If more people start using the coins, then being a finite amount the value of each coin would probably go up, and you'd pay less of that coin for the goods you buy .. instead of paying 0.1 ETH for a 10$ coffee, you may pay 0.00001 ETH for a coffee - doesn't matter  as long as the coffee shop gets 10$ for that 0.00001 ETH. There's like more than 10 decimals to play with. 

 

 

What's stopping somebody from just flipping the switch and making all of this imaginary money disappear? =  there's nobody to flip the switch, it's a decentralized system, lots of people using computers as nodes each having the whole blockchain, if one turns off their computer there's hundreds of other people holding that blockchain on their computers.

 

If you're really so thick as to not understand why it's helpful to have such crypto currencies then I'm sorry, but can't help you there. 

 

Just think what you could come up when you're a person that may not have access to credit cards, or in a country where they can't buy things online due to various restrictions. I'm sure you'd be able to come up with something

 

 

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4 hours ago, dragonhart6505 said:

Point acknowledged.

There are people saying manufacturers don't want to make more cards because if cryptomining falls they'll flood the market with used cards and everyone will pick them up leaving the new cards on the shelves. I disagree with this. Make more cards so people can buy them reasonably priced because NOBODY WANTS A USED CARD because of cryptomining. If they're damaged or dying or FAKE, like the market has also been flooded with, then consumers will lose even more faith because the companies refuse to give us stock.

The companies are also saying to stop miners from buying cards. How exactly can you do that? Limit a purchase to just 2 at a time...they'll just make more than one transaction. Ask if they're mining? Nobody's business. Good luck going door to door and saying "HEY! You got too many graphics cards in here! Stop buying them!"

How did cryptocurrency become a legitimately recognized currency in the first place? How did it become more valuable than actual money?

Fuck, if we can just make up a new kind of money every week I hereby declare the initiation of Derpencoin, a currency only available to me, is worth $30,000,000,000 per coin and there is only one available and I own it. Bid starts at $4,000,000.

There really is no easy way to tell if a card has been mined that's the problem.  I just sold my GTX 1080 and the first thing the guy asked was if it was mined on.  I have also heard people repackaging cards and selling them as new.  I personally was never for used cards prior to mining and now I will never buy one for the next couple of years if I can help it.  


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4 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Really ?!!

 

why do these blocks exist = because it's a simple way of recording transactions, of having history for any accounts, it's like pages in a book that keep track of past transactions.

who is using your hardware for the mining = nobody uses your hardware for mining. You're free to be a regular user who simply has a wallet with coins and buys stuff with them, or sells coins using the network of that coin. If you want to be a miner and be a part of the network and receive coins as reward, you can. If you don't, you can buy these coins like you'd do from any bank, money exchange, like you'd buy some foreign currency.

 

who determines how much value 1 ETH/BTC is worth = the people that buy or sell these coins on exchanges. I can go on an exchange and say I want to sell this amount for 1000$ and if someone wants to offer that much, i'll sell it to them.

why is any of this important or worth the $19,000 real  = imho bitcoin is not worth $19k because of lots of reasons but other cryptocurrencies are worth whatever the people using them deem they're worth due to the benefits they bring (decentralized, no banks involved or governments, no middle man, easy transfers of coins, low transaction fees, making it possible to do things with them in new ways)

 

If it's finite, how much cryptocurrency is available in total and when does it run out?

 

You can see how many coins some currencies have and their value here: https://coinmarketcap.com/

 

It varies from coin to coin and how it's designed. For some coins, they're designed in such a way as to account for inflation or for advances in hardware (for example, if it's twice as easy to mine a block, then the reward for mining a block is reduced to a half). Others have some thresholds at which amount issued is reduced ... for example, from block ### which will be mined in 2020, reward will be lowered to half the current reward.

 

For Ethereum, right now there's 97,165,135 ETH and like i said, every block that's created adds 3 ETH to the circulation. So you can do the math, there's only so many seconds in a year, you can figure out how much ETH is gonna be a year from now.

 

Any change to the system decided beforehand would have to be accepted by more than 51% of the miners in the network.. for example, because anyone can contribute to the source code behind Ethereum, I could contribute some code that would change the amount of ethereum issued for every block from 3 to 300 but in order for this change to be active, more than 51% of the miners would have to update to the new version of the software which includes my change, and they wouldn't because there's no benefit for them.  Anyone that uses a version of the software that's in minority will have their work (whatever they mine) invalidated and wouldn't get any rewards so they just waste money on electricity and all that.

In extreme cases, such disagreements result to forks, where you end up with two coins.. as it was the case with Ethereum and Ethereum Classic which are now two separate currencies... a large enough amount of people disagreed with some changes Ethereum developers agreed with, and they decided to create separate currency without those changes they didn't agree with.

 

 

What happens to all YOUR ETH/BTC when there is no more to mine?  = NOTHING, you still have it, you can still use it like regular money. What happens if the US government doesn't print dollars anymore? The current dollars are still in the world and you'd still be able to use them.  Why don't you worry about what happens when your US government prints more dollars every day?

If more people start using the coins, then being a finite amount the value of each coin would probably go up, and you'd pay less of that coin for the goods you buy .. instead of paying 0.1 ETH for a 10$ coffee, you may pay 0.00001 ETH for a coffee - doesn't matter  as long as the coffee shop gets 10$ for that 0.00001 ETH. There's like more than 10 decimals to play with. 

 

 

What's stopping somebody from just flipping the switch and making all of this imaginary money disappear? =  there's nobody to flip the switch, it's a decentralized system, lots of people using computers as nodes each having the whole blockchain, if one turns off their computer there's hundreds of other people holding that blockchain on their computers.

 

If you're really so thick as to not understand why it's helpful to have such crypto currencies then I'm sorry, but can't help you there. 

 

Just think what you could come up when you're a person that may not have access to credit cards, or in a country where they can't buy things online due to various restrictions. I'm sure you'd be able to come up with something

 

 

I'm so thick as to question the very existence and legitimacy of a made up currency that just popped out of thin air whether people asked for it or not..yet you're so thick as to blindly follow the masses and invest your hard earned money into something you have no idea where it comes from or where it's going or how it has even become something millions of people are investing entire life savings into when the entire worth of the currency could collapse in an instant.

If this currency is finite, but it is most useful to those in areas where there can be no justly regulated online monetary system, how is it helping those who supposedly need this kind of thing as you stated above? They are still getting...nothing. Yet you are fortunate enough to spend thousands of dollars to take this currency from them and somehow you need it more.

You seem to know everything else about cryptocurrency, but you don't know why you're involved or where it comes from. GG mate.

Maybe I sound like an aluminum foil wearing nutjob, but I was told to question everything when I was growing up. Might as well flash monopoly money at a crack dealer and expect a sale.

You know the biggest use of cryptocurrency is illicit trade on the black market and undercover trading, right? Like that's where it was intended to be used. And now the whole world is like "cool, my computer can now solve these transaction records" and you're all ok with that.

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In other news, Barney the Dinosaur now runs a business massaging and having sex with women for $350 a session, claiming it will reduce stress and improve their chakra...

Wonder if he's hiring?

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On 1/23/2018 at 2:58 PM, Jrasero said:

There really is no easy way to tell if a card has been mined that's the problem.  I just sold my GTX 1080 and the first thing the guy asked was if it was mined on.  I have also heard people repackaging cards and selling them as new.  I personally was never for used cards prior to mining and now I will never buy one for the next couple of years if I can help it.  

 

 

And what did you even tell the guy?  Yes or no?? 


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Malaysian market:

 

The cheapest (sold out) GTX 1070 mini from Zotac was, 

Quote

www.PNG.636bd9388ce2343f2b9458d6a89dd2ff.PNG

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fffff.PNG.7d447e25391b1c46435fea68b3bc1ae5.PNG

The ones that still available currently priced at;

Quote

1070.PNG.a1cfba9223a41119a28560a50d62c6a8.PNG

Spoiler

dd.PNG.fa9830879635807a2787b869c85f0627.PNG

 

*shrugs*


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Spoiler

 

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with currency its all about what you believe and how you define it. Cryptocurrency is only valuable because we defined it so. At one point it cost 10000 bitcoins to buy a pizza, now a pizza is not even worth 1 bitcoin.

So the US dollar can be worth 1 million more if everyone in the world believed and agreed suddenly that it is worth 1 million times more.

 

Its all about how you define it, thats the basics of economy. supply and demand economics are bs, as theres always someone defining it to gain something.

 

What makes cryptocurrency so valuable is because fiat currency is controlled by messed up central organisations like governments or  central banks. Before the gold standard vanished, people had control over the currency and not banks or governments so they couldnt simply define it how they liked. With cryptocurrency it puts the power back into the 99% that used to have it.

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2 minutes ago, System Error Message said:

with currency its all about what you believe and how you define it. Cryptocurrency is only valuable because we defined it so. At one point it cost 10000 bitcoins to buy a pizza, now a pizza is not even worth 1 bitcoin.

So the US dollar can be worth 1 million more if everyone in the world believed and agreed suddenly that it is worth 1 million times more.

 

Its all about how you define it, thats the basics of economy. supply and demand economics are bs, as theres always someone defining it to gain something.

Currency as we know it has something of value behind its existence. Dollars, for instance, are backed by Gold (though the national debt would prove otherwise, but I digress). If cryptocurrency has something behind it to make it worth its weight in Gold, what is that backing? Belief? Hope? Dreams? They don't pay the bills and they aren't bringing graphics cards back on the market, so why are people investing so hard into it? Is it the money that has been pumped into it that makes it so valuable? Then it's only worth the Gold backing that money. Then that gold must be worth more and inherently so should the money.

Cryptocurrency, any currency, must be backed by a valuable resource. If these bytes and bits aren't backed by anything other hype and hope, then it's worthless

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13 minutes ago, dragonhart6505 said:

Currency as we know it has something of value behind its existence. Dollars, for instance, are backed by Gold (though the national debt would prove otherwise, but I digress). If cryptocurrency has something behind it to make it worth its weight in Gold, what is that backing? Belief? Hope? Dreams? They don't pay the bills and they aren't bringing graphics cards back on the market, so why are people investing so hard into it? Is it the money that has been pumped into it that makes it so valuable? Then it's only worth the Gold backing that money. Then that gold must be worth more and inherently so should the money.

Cryptocurrency, any currency, must be backed by a valuable resource. If these bytes and bits aren't backed by anything other hype and hope, then it's worthless

Just like why people used swiss banks, they didnt like how their government handled their currency. One minute you're a millionaire and the next, you're dirt poor. So with cryptocurrency not having a centralised system, with no one controlling it other than its own algorithm, people can define prices better and not using inflation and not worry about the actions of another ruining things.

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23 minutes ago, System Error Message said:

Just like why people used swiss banks, they didnt like how their government handled their currency. One minute you're a millionaire and the next, you're dirt poor. So with cryptocurrency not having a centralised system, with no one controlling it other than its own algorithm, people can define prices better and not using inflation and not worry about the actions of another ruining things.

Not use inflation? So the algorithm accounts for its constantly fluctuating physical monetary value and that won't hurt the consumers at any point?

Like say one day 1 ETH is worth....$3000. You want a cheeseburger at $3. Your wallet has 4ETH in it. So you spend 0.0003ETH for the burger. On some random wildfire of a crash of the crypto market, the next day ETH is now only worth $7. Now your $12000 wallet that you barely made a dent in yesterday, you can only just afford a cheeseburger and the gas it took to get it. All because your hopes and dreams didn't pan out the way you wanted and a computer script said it's not worth a damn.

GG

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2 hours ago, dragonhart6505 said:

Not use inflation? So the algorithm accounts for its constantly fluctuating physical monetary value and that won't hurt the consumers at any point?

Like say one day 1 ETH is worth....$3000. You want a cheeseburger at $3. Your wallet has 4ETH in it. So you spend 0.0003ETH for the burger. On some random wildfire of a crash of the crypto market, the next day ETH is now only worth $7. Now your $12000 wallet that you barely made a dent in yesterday, you can only just afford a cheeseburger and the gas it took to get it. All because your hopes and dreams didn't pan out the way you wanted and a computer script said it's not worth a damn.

GG

you can think of it the other way round. The next day, US dollar has halved in value so your money is worth less. However having a supply of eth, being paid in it, circulating it, etc will make it useful.

 

The only problem with a non inflating currency is when the population increases. Say in 10 years the population doubles, the currency will also need to have 2x more coins and have the same value to accommodate everyone. The problem with fiat currency is that they do add more money but the value decreases at the same time, causing people to increase prices to account for inflation (which is a totally unnecessary practice as the actual value of the product can be defined all the way from the source to the retailer) which is what harms the economy. If the value of the currency increases as the inflation for population increases keeping the value constant, thats what would prevent an unbalanced situation like we've been having for years with the economies.

 

So the true value of anything is defined by you.

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6 hours ago, dragonhart6505 said:

Currency as we know it has something of value behind its existence. Dollars, for instance, are backed by Gold

 

The Dollar isn't backed by gold anymore, allowing bankers to inflate it to high ratios. Now you see the interest in cryptocurrencies?

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37 minutes ago, GamingDevilsCC said:

 

The Dollar isn't backed by gold anymore, allowing bankers to inflate it to high ratios. Now you see the interest in cryptocurrencies?

No, because the cryptocurrency needs to be converted to that dollar value at the point of sale. And with the fluctuating value of a dollar and the ridiculous fluctuations of cryptocurrency, the price of an item will is still the same and needs to be run through a conversion which as I described can be higher or lower and any one moment. The only difference is the value and usefulness of cryptocurrency is only felt in establishments where they are accepted, which is some places online or at very few B&M or mobile concessions. When it hits Wall Street, which is where it's headed, it then becomes a regulated value by how much money is invested into it...and that then defeats it's purpose.

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4 hours ago, System Error Message said:

you can think of it the other way round. The next day, US dollar has halved in value so your money is worth less. However having a supply of eth, being paid in it, circulating it, etc will make it useful.

 

The only problem with a non inflating currency is when the population increases. Say in 10 years the population doubles, the currency will also need to have 2x more coins and have the same value to accommodate everyone. The problem with fiat currency is that they do add more money but the value decreases at the same time, causing people to increase prices to account for inflation (which is a totally unnecessary practice as the actual value of the product can be defined all the way from the source to the retailer) which is what harms the economy. If the value of the currency increases as the inflation for population increases keeping the value constant, thats what would prevent an unbalanced situation like we've been having for years with the economies.

 

So the true value of anything is defined by you.

That last part...deep man, deep.

 

But that right there shows my point. If the value is to one person, who is that person that makes it as valuable as it is? If it's not regulated, if it's finite and not in production but only circulation, where is the source of its value? Somebody had to say "this right here is worth $x". The people who mine it made that claim? Why isn't it worth much much more? Why is its worth in such disarray?

I'm not arguing it's usefulness. I get that. I'm arguing it's resource and origin, true monetary value and end-of-the-line goal as an established means of of currency.

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