Overwatch League Opinions

[Nocte]

What do you think about OWL and its future?

How do you think it will affect the eSports industry and culture?

 

I have high hopes for it, I see it as a huge investment made by Blizzard to try and give more visibility to eSports by replicating profit maximising league models that are utilised by the NBA and such. 

 

They managed to create fanbases based on territory, though my only rant is the lack of European clubs, with only London Spitfire representing a European city. Hopefully, this will lead to a larger interest in eSports.

 

What are your thoughts on this?

For what team do you root?

 

Aces High

[TAHIRMIA]

I think that OW does not require much skill from what I have seen compared to other E-Sport games like CS:GO and LoL. So I don't think it will end up being as popular as those or make as much money.

[TheSilverNiko]

I think it is a terrible game as far as esport capabilities are concerned. I think in 1-2 years time it will turn out to have been a waste,

[TAHIRMIA]

14 hours ago, VirtusProFTW skin.trade said:

I think it is a terrible game as far as esport capabilities are concerned. I think in 1-2 years time it will turn out to have been a waste,

It is rare to find people that have the same opinion as me lol but then again you got Niko as your profile pic, and think most games don't require as much skill as csgo (I do too xD)

[TheSilverNiko]

4 hours ago, TAHIRMIA said:

It is rare to find people that have the same opinion as me lol but then again you got Niko as your profile pic, and think most games don't require as much skill as csgo (I do too xD)

It has my new prof pic but it didnt take my steam name "TheSilverNiko"

[Eduard the weeb]

the problem is I think if this fails it hurts E-sports more then helps, and it took them 2 years to set up so a large amount of its competitive players have left to elsewhere I personally should have helped ESL and other tournaments come together to make this

 

honestly making esports as succesful "Real " sports you have to have alot of good things

 

a game needs to be easy to watch

 competitive and have a high skill level with it being easy to get into

dealing with cheaters 

having the game stay relevant be keeping it intresting

good devs

with a loot box system either non existent or similar to overwatchs

1 spot for watching games esl seems like the best one 

being free out the gate

 

so its gonna be hard to do and no game so far has been able to hit all those

 

 

 

[Suika]

Balance takes far too much time (Hanzo's scatter), it's typically awful (Junkrat/Mercy/Roadhog at one point), and Blizzard doesn't take as much input from the higher end of the player base as they should be doing (Roadhog/Mercy/D.Va). Asides from players already in OWL, it's hard to attract pros to a game like Overwatch.

[Nocte]

1 hour ago, Suika said:

Balance takes far too much time (Hanzo's scatter), it's typically awful (Junkrat/Mercy/Roadhog at one point), and Blizzard doesn't take as much input from the higher end of the player base as they should be doing (Roadhog/Mercy/D.Va). Asides from players already in OWL, it's hard to attract pros to a game like Overwatch.

Well there are several pros that did not manage to get into OWL as the rosters are full.

1 hour ago, Eduard the weeb said:

1 spot for watching games esl seems like the best one

I believe Twitch is best platform to watch games, but even ESL now signed a contract to stream on Facebook, which obviously has a larger userbase, but I don't see how you can target the players properly. Too many people on facebook do not care about esports, and for us who care about it it's going to be harder to find the stream.

 

On 25/01/2018 at 1:50 AM, VirtusProFTW skin.trade said:

I think it is a terrible game as far as esport capabilities are concerned. I think in 1-2 years time it will turn out to have been a waste,

 

On 20/01/2018 at 1:14 PM, TAHIRMIA said:

I think that OW does not require much skill from what I have seen compared to other E-Sport games like CS:GO and LoL. So I don't think it will end up being as popular as those or make as much money.

Well differently from CSGO and LoL, which I both play as well, Overwatch revolves more around team coordination rather than individual skill. I can see your point, but I believe it's just good skills are not as noticeable (which could be a problem to attract viewers).

[Eduard the weeb]

yeah most " Young people " that esports appeals to the most prefer twitter and Instagram anyway

[TheSilverNiko]

5 hours ago, Eibe said:

 

 

 

Well differently from CSGO and LoL, which I both play as well, Overwatch revolves more around team coordination rather than individual skill. I can see your point, but I believe it's just good skills are not as noticeable (which could be a problem to attract viewers).

It's just not entertaining in my opinion, it looks like all they do is fly around pushing power up keys someone random dies and casters get overly excited. Then again that's just my opinion.

[TAHIRMIA]

On 1/26/2018 at 6:35 PM, Eibe said:

Overwatch revolves more around team coordination rather than individual skill.

 

CS is a heavy team game - executing retakes, grenade throws and other coordination is required for a successful round. You cannot win on individual skill alone, although the individual skill helps.

[Nocte]

9 minutes ago, TAHIRMIA said:

CS is a heavy team game - executing retakes, grenade throws and other coordination is required for a successful round. You cannot win on individual skill alone, although the individual skill helps.

I am not saying that they lack team skills, just that individual skill is more noticeable than in Overwatch. Just look at Shanghai Dragons they have 1-2 very good players, rest of team is trash, result: 0 wins, all losses.

[Inkz]

Honestly, I really like it so far. I wish there was a more defined path to get in for the open division to contenders part. But I enjoy watching certain teams and the memes like the Jakerat for example. It makes me want to get more into competitive gaming. I also wish there was a midwestern team I could root for. Preferable from Michigan, but I would accept Chicago as it is a major city.

[Nocte]

2 hours ago, Inkz said:

Honestly, I really like it so far. I wish there was a more defined path to get in for the open division to contenders part. But I enjoy watching certain teams and the memes like the Jakerat for example. It makes me want to get more into competitive gaming. I also wish there was a midwestern team I could root for. Preferable from Michigan, but I would accept Chicago as it is a major city.

I agree on the open division part. 

I'd like to see at least a continetal European team more than another US one... Europe has only London Spitfire, and a lot of other major European countries (Germany, France, Italy, Spain) have no representation. 

[Phantonex]

On 1/26/2018 at 10:59 AM, Eduard the weeb said:

the problem is I think if this fails it hurts E-sports more then helps, and it took them 2 years to set up so a large amount of its competitive players have left to elsewhere I personally should have helped ESL and other tournaments come together to make this

 

honestly making esports as succesful "Real " sports you have to have alot of good things

 

a game needs to be easy to watch

 competitive and have a high skill level with it being easy to get into

dealing with cheaters 

having the game stay relevant be keeping it intresting

good devs

with a loot box system either non existent or similar to overwatchs

1 spot for watching games esl seems like the best one 

being free out the gate

 

so its gonna be hard to do and no game so far has been able to hit all those

 

 

 

I jut think it’s stupid that they’re trying to make OW like a real sport, with the teams being backed in cities and all of that. I personally think it would be better if they realized that esports and sports are and can be different. I’m not saying esports aren’t a sport, I think they are, but the way OWL is set up is just stupid imo. That’s just what I think tho

[Nocte]

5 minutes ago, Phantonex said:

I jut think it’s stupid that they’re trying to make OW like a real sport, with the teams being backed in cities and all of that. I personally think it would be better if they realized that esports and sports are and can be different. I’m not saying esports aren’t a sport, I think they are, but the way OWL is set up is just stupid imo. That’s just what I think tho

Not all sport clubs are necessarily tied to cities.

The reason they did that is probably just basic economic of sports theory, in which profit maximising sport league organisations (e.g. NBA) often tie their name to a city to obtain a theoretical monopoly of that territory.

Pretty much they want to spread the customer-base among all teams by assigning to each one of them an area.

[TAHIRMIA]

14 hours ago, Eibe said:

Not all sport clubs are necessarily tied to cities.

The reason they did that is probably just basic economic of sports theory, in which profit maximising sport league organisations (e.g. NBA) often tie their name to a city to obtain a theoretical monopoly of that territory.

Pretty much they want to spread the customer-base among all teams by assigning to each one of them an area.

2

Yeah but sometimes there may be another group of guys in the same city that could be better skilled but cannot start their own team due to the way it works

[Nocte]

2 hours ago, TAHIRMIA said:

Yeah but sometimes there may be another group of guys in the same city that could be better skilled but cannot start their own team due to the way it works

The teams do not hire players within the city represented (e.g. London Spitfire is composed by a fully Korean team), just like in the NBA etc. Cleveland Cavaliers do not necessarily have players from Cleveland.

[TAHIRMIA]

On 2/8/2018 at 6:21 PM, Eibe said:

The teams do not hire players within the city represented (e.g. London Spitfire is composed by a fully Korean team), just like in the NBA etc. Cleveland Cavaliers do not necessarily have players from Cleveland.

Ahh okay, is there a draft or something that players get selected or do they just pick anyone with the highest rank?

[Nocte]

5 hours ago, TAHIRMIA said:

Ahh okay, is there a draft or something that players get selected or do they just pick anyone with the highest rank?

They were planning for a draft system but it ended up being a free market. This is bad for competitive balance, as it is seen from the difference between draft leagues such as the NBA and free market leagues such as European football leagues. Hopefully, some teams in the league will not get a too dominant position or the viewerbase will lose interest.

[mr cheese]

Yeah it is a joke.

I thought it was going places but after the xQc incident it brought to life all the fundamental issues with it and I have given up on it.

[Nocte]

45 minutes ago, DaJakerBoss said:

Yeah it is a joke.

I thought it was going places but after the xQc incident it brought to life all the fundamental issues with it and I have given up on it.

Yeah, I didn't like how they handled that situation either. But him being kicked out of the league was Dallas Fuel's fault... Well, they lost their best player and main tank lol. 

 

I don't like how Blizzard is handling "toxicity" in general. I don't like toxicity and I *think* I am not toxic (I tend to ignore the chat altogether unless it's about stuff like strategy), but trying to remove toxicity from a competitive game is impossible.

 

Where there is competition, there is something to lose (be it a tournament prize or skill rating), and where there is something to lose, there is toxicity. I think it's normal. There are toxic players in football etc.

 

Blizzard is trying to do the impossible and is losing out on most of its fanbase who cannot be bothered to witness to childish arguments and losing out on good players to spectate. 

[Whiskers]

On 20/03/2018 at 8:29 PM, Eibe said:

Yeah, I didn't like how they handled that situation either. But him being kicked out of the league was Dallas Fuel's fault... Well, they lost their best player and main tank lol. 

 

I don't like how Blizzard is handling "toxicity" in general. I don't like toxicity and I *think* I am not toxic (I tend to ignore the chat altogether unless it's about stuff like strategy), but trying to remove toxicity from a competitive game is impossible.

 

Where there is competition, there is something to lose (be it a tournament prize or skill rating), and where there is something to lose, there is toxicity. I think it's normal. There are toxic players in football etc.

 

Blizzard is trying to do the impossible and is losing out on most of its fanbase who cannot be bothered to witness to childish arguments and losing out on good players to spectate. 

 

That's not an excuse at all though. Just because you're in a competitive environment doesn't excuse homophobic or racist behaviour - he made a blatantly homophobic remark which he directed at an openly gay player. If he didn't face consequences for his actions, what would there be to discourage others from engaging in similar or even worse behaviour in future? Professional footballers have been fired in the past for making sexist, racist or homophobic remarks - I don't see why eSports players should be exempt from similar consequences to their actions.

 

I feel one of the big issues with Blizzard's approach to eliminating toxicity at the moment is that they're only looking for ways to punish negative behaviour but don't reward players for positive behaviour. Games like League of Legends have seen some improvements in community behaviour after implementing reputation systems, so perhaps that's something Blizzard should look into for Overwatch.

[Nocte]

15 hours ago, Whiskers said:

 

That's not an excuse at all though. Just because you're in a competitive environment doesn't excuse homophobic or racist behaviour - he made a blatantly homophobic remark which he directed at an openly gay player. If he didn't face consequences for his actions, what would there be to discourage others from engaging in similar or even worse behaviour in future? Professional footballers have been fired in the past for making sexist, racist or homophobic remarks - I don't see why eSports players should be exempt from similar consequences to their actions.

 

I feel one of the big issues with Blizzard's approach to eliminating toxicity at the moment is that they're only looking for ways to punish negative behaviour but don't reward players for positive behaviour. Games like League of Legends have seen some improvements in community behaviour after implementing reputation systems, so perhaps that's something Blizzard should look into for Overwatch.

I was not defending xQc behaviour by any means. I am condemning Blizzard's way of addressing the problem as a whole, not the single case of xQc. I am completely aware that he, as a representer of OWL and Dallas Fuel, was completely in the wrong by making homophobic and racist remarks.

 

The reason for which I did not like how the case of xQc was treated was because it led to him leaving the competitive scene altogether (for now at least). I can see why you would say that he should not be exempt from that as footballers etc. got fired in the past for those reasons, but we are talking about a league that is still in its infancy and that already has competitive balance problems between teams. Dallas Fuel now is not in the position to compete, leading to lower interest in watching matches being played by them. At the same time I could argue that it's Dallas Fuel fault as they fired him, instead of Blizzard themselves, but chances are that there is a close relationship between the teams and the league (I would be worried if there wasn't) and Blizzard must have been in the position to influence Dallas decision to fire xQc. 

 

Anyway, I am mainly concerned with Blizzard's attempt to tackle down toxicity among "normal" players, not professionals. When I was talking about "toxicity" in my previous post I meant players that would write stuff in chat such as "get gud", "learn to play", "you are bad" (or whatever childish remark I often see across games such as OW, CSGO, etc.), not homophobic/racist comments (those should be always a more than good reason to ban players). I feel like Blizzard is trying to stop players from making comments that are taken as seriously toxic by others, while they should be simply disregarded instead of being taken as an insult. 

[Whiskers]

3 hours ago, Eibe said:

I was not defending xQc behaviour by any means. I am condemning Blizzard's way of addressing the problem as a whole, not the single case of xQc. I am completely aware that he, as a representer of OWL and Dallas Fuel, was completely in the wrong by making homophobic and racist remarks.

 

The reason for which I did not like how the case of xQc was treated was because it led to him leaving the competitive scene altogether (for now at least). I can see why you would say that he should not be exempt from that as footballers etc. got fired in the past for those reasons, but we are talking about a league that is still in its infancy and that already has competitive balance problems between teams. Dallas Fuel now is not in the position to compete, leading to lower interest in watching matches being played by them. At the same time I could argue that it's Dallas Fuel fault as they fired him, instead of Blizzard themselves, but chances are that there is a close relationship between the teams and the league (I would be worried if there wasn't) and Blizzard must have been in the position to influence Dallas decision to fire xQc. 

What else could they have done, though? A mere slap on the wrist would seem inconsequential, his behaviour was out of line and he needed to face some kind of consequence for it. It's a shame for Dallas Fuel but I don't think there was another option. If they'd have kept him on in the team and let him keep competing he'd have continued generating negative publicity not only for Dallas Fuel but the Overwatch League (and by association Blizzard) too, and that would arguably have done a lot more harm in the long term.

 

Quote

Anyway, I am mainly concerned with Blizzard's attempt to tackle down toxicity among "normal" players, not professionals. When I was talking about "toxicity" in my previous post I meant players that would write stuff in chat such as "get gud", "learn to play", "you are bad" (or whatever childish remark I often see across games such as OW, CSGO, etc.), not homophobic/racist comments (those should be always a more than good reason to ban players). I feel like Blizzard is trying to stop players from making comments that are taken as seriously toxic by others, while they should be simply disregarded instead of being taken as an insult. 

I can't agree with you there.

 

People who want to play the game should be free to do so without needing to face an onslaught of personal attacks and insults. Comments like "learn to play" and "uninstall" are insults, criticising the player for their performance and trying to make them feel bad; it's fine for friendly banter between friends, but when flippantly shouted at people you don't know it's definitely negative behaviour. Why should it be allowed, and why shouldn't people be expected to use a bit of self control and not act like a dick towards other players? By allowing that type of behaviour you're saying it's acceptable, and if you're saying it's acceptable you're only encouraging it to proliferate throughout the community.

 

It's also fairly normal for online games with text and or voice chat to suspend or ban players for that type of behaviour, competitive or otherwise, so it's not like what they're doing is unusually harsh or punitive.