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Nvidia asks retailers to stop selling gpu's to miners

sarfraz
By sarfraz
in General Discussion
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Posted
14 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

 

ok i could have said this from the start instead of the example. Miners prefer low latency memory over faster speed memory, it's a trade off as i understand it, gddr5x compensates higher latency with more speed in gaming, miners would prefer a card with less speed less latency. They still buy 1080ti's, they still perform but a 1080ti with ggd5 would be better for them. 

Is this the only thing that differs them from gamers? i don't know, my point is i came across it and i couldn't care lase about mining, sure there must be other things for people that research this.

Now investigate all the things miners prefer and join all the things miners prefer in a mining card, that's my point i guess.

 

The BIOS would of course be on newer cards and with hardware changes like intel did to lock as out of OC some CPU's. The specifics? come on i don't work on GPU design. :P

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Posted
1 minute ago, asus killer said:

sure there must be other things for people that research this.

Now investigate all the things miners prefer and join all the things miners prefer in a mining card, that's my point i guess.

The problem is that's wishful thinking. It's just a belief in "something must be possible", it doesn't have any real backing behind.

 

1 minute ago, asus killer said:

 The specifics? come on i don't work on GPU design. :P

Maybe that's the root of your certainty about this possibility? 9_9

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Posted
7 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

ya but most miners dont even want those cards as they have much lower resale value thanks to the lack of display outputs, they are usually also not cheaper, so its not much more than a failed attempt.

Yeah. There's not a ton that can be done to reduce production costs on what effectively needs to be a full videocard anyways. Cutting down to just a hashing board chip means that it's a ton of work for a highly volatile market. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

The problem is that's wishful thinking. It's just a belief in "something must be possible", it doesn't have any real backing behind.

 

Maybe that's the root of your certainty about this possibility?  

what i am certain is that they are doing nothing to segment the market. Again i just gave an example of something that could do it. I refuse to believe it's the only thing they could do, they do not have the same needs a gamer and a miner or memory latency would be equally important.

 

But it is easy to understand why nvidia and amd could not care less about segmenting it. Mining is a moment thing, it crashed hard in the past, it's highly volatile, if they did this and mining market disappeared they would be stuck with cards no one buys, this way they can play both ways, let's feed the miners and if that goes away we sell them to the gamers, the ones that created the market and that never go away. It's a dick move in my opinion. Makes sense to the bottom line, but morally it's wrong to do this to their loyal customers, the guys that made gpu market what it is.

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Posted
7 hours ago, JoostinOnline said:

Would this make a difference though?  All you have to do is create a new account.

Lol miners just buy wholesale anyways. You can get GPUs for MSRP too

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted

Is it going to make a difference though? 8GB GDDR5 price is 20$-30$ higher than before ( the increase in manufacturer cost, not consumer cost). Gamer's nexsus has an article on this.

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4 hours ago, asus killer said:

as a manufacturer once you sell to retailers there is virtually no any to control who retailers will or will not sell something

you cannot go over retailers on this, like selling direct, because you need them

for a retailer the good customer is the guy that buys 18 1080ti's not the one that goes there to buy one.

i don't think that you can discriminate buyers or refuse sales, i really think it's illegal. At most you can put a limit on units sold to a customer but that is easy to cheat by the buyer.

 

nvidia knows this, only they can change this. And they still refuse to do something about it. That's just PR BS

A limit per household is much harder to cheat tho

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33 minutes ago, givingtnt said:

A limit per household is much harder to cheat tho

I send two to my house, two to my mum, two to my dad's, two to each grandparents houses, two to my brother's, two to my partner's house. That's 12 per retailer. Hit 5 retailers, that's 60 cards...

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2 hours ago, Ben Quigley said:

I send two to my house, two to my mum, two to my dad's, two to each grandparents houses, two to my brother's, two to my partner's house. That's 12 per retailer. Hit 5 retailers, that's 60 cards...

i can give 10$ to my neighbour for him to buy 2 more, 10$ for the guy i go to the gym with,...

.

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On 1/19/2018 at 10:23 PM, Dan Castellaneta said:

From a business standpoint, this is fucking stupid, for a few reasons.

The most of which is that they're denying sales to a market that also has a use for GPUs.

when all AMD cards where bought out AMD gpu department wasn't doubling in sale due to increased prices because they were still selling them to stores for normal prices and the stores would mark them up because supply and demand, So I doubt Nivida profit margins are really increasing at a rapid rate also

 

Nivida will make money either way because there is a market for GPUS with or without miners.

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2 hours ago, Ben Quigley said:

I send two to my house, two to my mum, two to my dad's, two to each grandparents houses, two to my brother's, two to my partner's house. That's 12 per retailer. Hit 5 retailers, that's 60 cards...

 

10 minutes ago, asus killer said:

i can give 10$ to my neighbour for him to buy 2 more, 10$ for the guy i go to the gym with,...

Yes there are workarounds. However this stops them from having block orders consuming an entire shipment of videocards at once. 

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11 hours ago, Damascus said:

And ssds, sshdds and everything else using nand (including gpus)

GPU's are massively reliant on RAM as well, if 16 gb of ddr4 has octupled in price the same applies to gddr5/x as it all comes from the same fans

 

Keep in mind that SSD's are getting much faster and higher capacity. 

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3 minutes ago, TheCherryKing said:

Keep in mind that SSD's are getting much faster and higher capacity. 

Well to be fair, I did just buy a tb ssd secondhand for 240 USD but brand new the prices have gone up noticeably from Q1 2017

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2 minutes ago, Notional said:

3. Crypto is worthless and represents no value what so ever. Yet crypto mining pollutes more than my entire country of 5.5 million people. 58% of all mining is done in China where 60% of electricity comes from coal. Not only are these wankers ruining consumer markets, they are also polluting the earth something fierce.

 

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5 hours ago, Sakkura said:

 

Graphics cards do not use NAND flash.

 

Except for some oddball niche products from AMD, but not regular gaming cards.

Note how I specified graphics cards and ssds and then made a generalization on top of that.

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On 1/19/2018 at 9:23 PM, Dan Castellaneta said:

From a business standpoint, this is fucking stupid, for a few reasons.

The most of which is that they're denying sales to a market that also has a use for GPUs.

Actually it isn't very stupid from a business standpoint. Miners are not a reliable source to continue buying GPU's in the future. A manufacturer would rather see the growth of an entire stable industry rather than seeing the explosion of growth for the mining industry. Mining will not be here forever. Gaming might not either... But it shows no sign of leaving any time soon. Not that bitcoin will collapse, but miners validating the transactions isn't the most efficient way to do it. There's other ways. Anyways, they want a reliable income instead of a burst or two. Also stock issues are also a concern. Gamers are pretty steady as far as how many builds happen, but miners are not. That is what is causing the shortages we have now. A few months ago when they ordered the stock they did not expect mining to take all of them again. But it did. So now they have the stock issue and they can never really guess how much they will need. Gaming is different. If they can get miners to buy less, they can gurantee a more stable selling enviroment. It is better for the company if miners weren't part of the equation.

 

But yeah this was probably just some PR to try to get people NOT to hate them. But you shouldn't anyways, it isn't their fault that miners buy so much.

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Please stop selling cards to miners so we can sell them directly to miners and make way more money 

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yes, where i live

 

u can only buy graphics cards along with a motherboard. both amd/ nvidia.

 

but i guess thats the shops own decision..

 

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11 hours ago, asus killer said:

ok i could have said this from the start instead of the example. Miners prefer low latency memory over faster speed memory, it's a trade off as i understand it, gddr5x compensates higher latency with more speed in gaming, miners would prefer a card with less speed less latency. They still buy 1080ti's, they still perform but a 1080ti with ggd5 would be better for them. 

What is your point? It is obvious that changing RAM won't stop people from buying the cards. We already use those memory types you suggest and people are still buying cards. We had a picture a few replies ago of some couple buying like 20 1080 Tis. That is a card which uses GDDR5X. Does it seem like the people who bought those card cares? No, because they are good mining cards despite using that particular type of VRAM.

VRAM matters far less than you think. People have this flawed view that just because the Fury X was a quite poor mining card it must have been because of HBM and therefore memory is super important and GDDR5X also sucks for it. It doesn't. GDDR5X cards (and even HBM cards) are just fine for mining.

Looking at VRAM is a simplistic view of GPUs. It's like looking at processor cache while completely ignoring architecture, core count, frequency, etc.

 

11 hours ago, asus killer said:

Again i just gave an example of something that could do it.

You gave an example which would have no impact whatsoever on the mining craze.

Your suggestions doesn't work.

 

11 hours ago, asus killer said:

I refuse to believe it's the only thing they could do, they do not have the same needs a gamer and a miner or memory latency would be equally important.

 

But it is easy to understand why nvidia and amd could not care less about segmenting it. Mining is a moment thing, it crashed hard in the past, it's highly volatile, if they did this and mining market disappeared they would be stuck with cards no one buys, this way they can play both ways, let's feed the miners and if that goes away we sell them to the gamers, the ones that created the market and that never go away. It's a dick move in my opinion. Makes sense to the bottom line, but morally it's wrong to do this to their loyal customers, the guys that made gpu market what it is.

You can refuse to believe it all you want, but in doing so you're also displaying for everyone that you either have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a GPU is, or a complete lack of understanding.

Let me repeat, your suggestions would not work. I think it is amazing that you still don't understand this after having it explained to you several times.

 

I think it is extremely ignorant and disrespectful of you to say that AMD and Nvidia could fix the issue but refuse to do so because they profit from it, when you yourself doesn't even seem to understand what the issues are or why your suggestions wouldn't work (even after having it explained to you).

 

I'll ask you again, how do you suggest they fix it?

Do not say change VRAM because IT DOES NOT SOLVE THE ISSUES. GDDR5X cards are already being bought in droves despite using GDDR5X. People do not give two shits about the type of VRAM used because at the end of the day it does not matter all that much.

HBM would most likely make the situation even worse because the memory itself is expensive and low in stock.

 

Detecting software and throttling that would not work either. People can just install other drivers.

BIOSes can not do that type of advanced application detection either. Hell, barely drivers can do it (program profiles usually rely on the process name, which can easily be changed to something else). Not to mention the performance impact it would have to constantly need to analyze the different programs running on your computer to detect mining software running. Not to mention the risk of false positives.

 

So your two suggestions you have given so far would not work. Do you have a third one? You can't call AMD and Nvidia greedy dicks if you can't even think of a single (effective) way of dealing with miners. And I'll repeat myself again so that you fully understand, because I don't want to hear you repeat your awful suggestions again, your two previous suggestions WOULD NOT WORK.

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Posted

Damn, @LAwLz is laying the logical smackdown in this thread.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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7 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

People do not give two shits about the type of VRAM used because at the end of the day it does not matter all that much.

Given a choice they do care. However in a shortage condition, there is no choice. Instead of picking the best card amongst many, the choice now is any card or no card. You might not make as much profit as you could with the best card, but as long as you make any profit at all, it adds up. And I've not looked into all altcoins, but not all of them may be so memory bandwidth sensitive and thus not be affected anyway. 

Main system: i9-7980XE, Asus X299 TUF mark 2, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance Pro 3200 3x 16GB 2R, RTX 3070, NZXT E850, GameMax Abyss, Samsung 980 Pro 2TB, Acer Predator XB241YU 24" 1440p 144Hz G-Sync + HP LP2475w 24" 1200p 60Hz wide gamut
Gaming laptop: Lenovo Legion 5, 5800H, RTX 3070, Kingston DDR4 3200C22 2x16GB 2Rx8, Kingston Fury Renegade 1TB + Crucial P1 1TB SSD, 165 Hz IPS 1080p G-Sync Compatible

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People keep saying it'll settle down when proof of stake comes around, it won't because miners will just switch to new coins like they already do.

In order to create new production it would require billions of dollars in investment, won't happen. Yields wouldn't even change until new fabrication plants were built.

 

The only hope for mining to die is for government regulation to finally end this nonsense. Several small countries worth of electricity being used to power volatile monopoly money used by criminals. Digital fool's gold. High end gaming adoption from new buyers/upgrades is stunted for at least the next 5 years.

The Internet is the first thing that humanity has built that humanity doesn't understand, the largest experiment in anarchy that we have ever had.

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I'm just going to piggyback on this thread @sarfraz To avoid topic spamming of this matter...

 

But here is one better, CNBC is actually demanding both AMD and Nvidia to do more, one of which has been proven not to work... (AMD cards can be flashed with custom firmware to run better, if my memory serves me correctly)

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/22/amd-nvidia-must-do-more-to-stop-cryptominers-from-causing-shortages.html

 

I wonder when the idiots will stop blaming the main companies with issues out of their control. They can't simply spend billions to increase on a dime, I've already stated this as has other...

They also can't simply output a firmware/software that is negative towards cryptocurrencies either because of the users like me with one card who wishes to play games and mine.

It's impossible to regulate household sales, because I could technically setup a unit number for every bedroom I could/have here, and companies can't deny selling at least one unit to each location.

 

Once the chips leave Nvidia and AMDs factories it's no longer their issue. End of story, you want to wail and whine on companies go to EVGA ASUS and every other card manufacture demanding they do something. These guys have the control not AMD or Nvidia, but even then the manufacturers likely have contracts with their clients, possibly lasting years before renewal, so one might not be able to blame them.

 

So who do you blame? NewEgg, Amazon, Computer companies that refuse to set selling limits. Middleman who sells directly to Mining Farms before it reaches to the shelves.

 

9 hours ago, Yoinkerman said:

Please stop selling cards to miners so we can sell them directly to miners and make way more money 

I might just buy a few cards locally and sell them on Ebay or Amazon :D Nah the fees would be annoying and shipping is a pain in the ass... Also the profits and time required to me is simply not worth it. Could literally make more money buying low selling high with BTC, likely faster too...

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I share this picture

aeegGKq_460s.jpg

Intel Xeon E5 1650 v3 @ 3.5GHz 6C:12T / CM212 Evo / Asus X99 Deluxe / 16GB (4x4GB) DDR4 3000 Trident-Z / Samsung 850 Pro 256GB / Intel 335 240GB / WD Red 2 & 3TB / Antec 850w / RTX 2070 / Win10 Pro x64

HP Envy X360 15: Intel Core i5 8250U @ 1.6GHz 4C:8T / 8GB DDR4 / Intel UHD620 + Nvidia GeForce MX150 4GB / Intel 120GB SSD / Win10 Pro x64

 

HP Envy x360 BP series Intel 8th gen

AMD ThreadRipper 2!

5820K & 6800K 3-way SLI mobo support list

 

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