Cars and keyless. Is there any way to prevent signal boost "hacks"?

[Joveice]

Hello,

 

I was wondering if there are any ways for car companies to prevent people from boosting the signal of a key so they can open the car in etc your driveway while your key is indoor. (this was a issue in my country not so long ago)

And then I thought, is there really a way to prevent this? I mean, me as a user should not need to do anything. it simply just does not work if you boost the signal.

 

Cheers!

[Purgent]

Nothing is theft / hack / fool-proof.

[Joveice]

Just now, Purgent said:

Nothing is theft / hack / fool-proof.

Well yea, but I'm wondering if this issue may be solved, if etc they need to decrypt some type of connection from the key to the car they are starting to get on the level of creating fake keys to open the cars just a "2018" way of doing it.

[BensurFP]

Maybe you could put your key inside some kind of faraday cage ? If the key doesn't communicate at all, they won't have a signal to boost.

 

Dave Jones of EEVBLOG made some videos concerning blocking or jamming the RFID signal on a credit card, They might get you some relevant informations:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp63MZ6RudE

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnOuEFR6qoM

[Joveice]

25 minutes ago, BensurFP said:

Maybe you could put your key inside some kind of faraday cage ? If the key doesn't communicate at all, they won't have a signal to boost.

 

Dave Jones of EEVBLOG made some videos concerning blocking or jamming the RFID signal on a credit card, They might get you some relevant informations:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp63MZ6RudE

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnOuEFR6qoM

But that goes against the point of 

 

59 minutes ago, Joveice said:

I mean, me as a user should not need to do anything. it simply just does not work if you boost the signal.

Then you could just get a key locker which blocks signals, those small ones you hang on the wall next to your door. 

[asus killer]

how about using a normal key? is it to much of a bother to turn a key?... just throwing it out there

 

stupid invention

[Joveice]

1 minute ago, asus killer said:

how about using a normal key? is it to much of a bother to turn a key?... just throwing it out there

 

stupid invention

Some models this isn't even a option anymore

[asus killer]

2 minutes ago, Joveice said:

Some models this isn't even a option anymore

i know. Just meant go back on this stupid innovation. Car keys and cars were getting pretty secure and hard to break in, steal. This just made it easier.

But i get your point if your car is keyless my comment is pointless as hell

[GoldenLag]

as far as i know each key has a set of private keys to use to access the car. im not shure how the intire proccess works but its similar to the prinicipal that passwords use. Not foolproof, but rather secure. It also never use the same code twice in succestion. More than this i dont know. it may be outdated information.........

Sadly i dont have a source, but i read or saw it a few years ago.

[Joveice]

4 minutes ago, asus killer said:

i know. Just meant go back on this stupid innovation. Car keys and cars were getting pretty secure and hard to break in, steal. This just made it easier.

But i get your point if your car is keyless my comment is pointless as hell

Nah, my car got a key, but the car I want to buy does not, and I guess changing it costs. (It's normally delivered without keyless, but the guy who owns it did buy it)

[asus killer]

5 minutes ago, Joveice said:

Nah, my car got a key, but the car I want to buy does not, and I guess changing it costs. (It's normally delivered without keyless, but the guy who owns it did buy it)

as far as i know the faraday cage is the only method. But it defeats the having a small card instead of a key, and watch this:

 

 

i guess you got to know what you're doing

[Joveice]

1 minute ago, asus killer said:

as far as i know the faraday cage is the only method. But it defeats the having a small card instead of a key, and watch this:

 

 

i guess you got to know what you're doing

 

32 minutes ago, Joveice said:

Then you could just get a key locker which blocks signals, those small ones you hang on the wall next to your door. 

Thats what I would do then, or get some type of pouch for it which blocks signal

[straight_stewie]

7 hours ago, Joveice said:

I was wondering if there are any ways for car companies to prevent people from boosting the signal of a key so they can open the car in etc your driveway while your key is indoor. (this was a issue in my country not so long ago)

Yeah so there is a bunch of security things that can be done to make sure that your unique key is the only key that can open the door. However, there is nothing reliable that can be done to prevent someone else from spamming your car from a distance with a high power signal that does not require you to do anything.

I can think of a really good way and highly illegal way, but it means you will have to use the regular key because it will also block your remote.

[wirs]

I've done some experimentation with those keys and it's not that hard to prevent the signal boosting command. For it to work you need atleast 2 people with the right equipment (we used hack rf's) Those keys do not really have a big range and you can only acquire the signal if the key lies right next to the other side of the door and you can't "record" the signal when the key is used and play it back to the car as every transmission from the key are encrypted and "timestamped"

 

Just don't have your key close to an outer wall or windows when at home and you're pretty safe. Also if they manage to steal the car, they can't really restart it without having the key

[Dash Lambda]

How to make cars more resistant to attacks:

-Have a different system to measure distance (for instance, the car only recognizes the key if, in addition to the code, it also hears a specific chirp).

-Have a second authentication method (fingerprint reader on the handle, maybe even a little keypad like some cars used to have).

-Improved code generation (Was it the Lexus system that just incremented by 1 each time?).

-Multiple codes (So the car sends the key a code, the key responds with a code, then the same thing happens again, so the attacker couldn't just skim the code by passing you).

-Configurable unlock conditions (Like being able to set the car to only unlock with the unlock button or physical key if you'll be gone for a while).

-Have the key chirp or buzz when the car unlocks or starts so the owner knows.

[ShredBird]

Drive stick.

 

Put your key in a protective metallic container when not in use.  Lining a box with foil will work well enough.

 

Actually, my sister's car had a proximity key thing and I've only heard this hack recently.  We had a few incidents of her car looking like it got tampered while my car an older one with just a basic key was fine.  I wonder if this hack was used.

[Bigbootyjudy]

There are lock bars that you can put over the steering wheel and for keys I know that some companies make key-less key protectors where they prevent signals from being passed on. 

[Pixel5]

both a normal lock as well as the keyless systems are hackable easily and only provide protection against the average joe and not against organized thieves.

 

the reason why cars with keyless systems get stolen more is very simple, they are new cars, you can steal them without damage to the lock and because its a new car you get decent money for it.

 

there is no advantage of having a normal key as it offers no extra protection beside that you have an old car that nobody will bother stealing.

[Ahoy Hoy]

On 1/17/2018 at 7:17 AM, Joveice said:

Hello,

 

I was wondering if there are any ways for car companies to prevent people from boosting the signal of a key so they can open the car in etc your driveway while your key is indoor. (this was a issue in my country not so long ago)

And then I thought, is there really a way to prevent this? I mean, me as a user should not need to do anything. it simply just does not work if you boost the signal.

 

Cheers!

Ever had a take away Indian before. You know the tubs the rice comes in, the bottom part is a metallic box. There ya go.
Have you ever seen the side of a big musical event? Lots of wireless microphones. To try and prevent frequency problems, they have a fuck load of metal trays. But they normally just buy them instead of having a curry, less smelly microphones.