Danish Officials charge over 1000 Danish youths with sharing Child Pornography through Facebook Messenger

[AlTech]

Danish officials are charging over 1000 Danish youths with sharing 15 year old's sex videos.

 

The explicit photographs and videos where shared via Facebook Messenger and involved two 15 year olds.

 

Facebook learned of the problem and notified US Authorities who then in turn notified Danish Authorities.

 

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More than 1,000 young people are facing charges in Denmark after allegedly sharing two sexually explicit videos and a photograph involving underage subjects on Facebook Messenger. Danish police announced the charges on Monday morning, according to the Danish publication The Local.

The sharing occurred in late 2017 and depicted a sexual encounter between two 15-year-olds. The young people charged with sharing the materials ranged in age from 15 to the early 20s. When Facebook learned that the material was being shared, the company notified US authorities, who in turn alerted authorities in Denmark.

 

This is what the Danish Officials had to say:

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We want to give out a warning to young people: think about what you’re doing, Don’t ever share sex videos. It can have consequences for the victims and also for those distributing.

 

As ArsTechnica points out, this could have nasty long lasting impacts for those charged:

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Most of the young people only shared the materials a few times. But some shared them more widely, according to authorities. About 800 of the people charged were male. If convicted, some of the young people could face prison time as well as restrictions from professions such as child care.

 

So yeah. damn. That's properly f*cked up in more ways than one. First, having sex requires a consenting age of 16 which neither individuals had. And second, sharing what is effectively Child pornography is so wrong.

 

Source:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/01/danish-police-charge-1000-youths-for-sharing-underage-sex-video/

[Tech_Dreamer]

it's a good move from the officials. But should be thoroughly looked into each individual whether they knew fully well it was illegal or was it just a passive response to share something they got they presumed was something regular to legal , they acted without having that knowledge. otherwise counseling & some other form of harsh punishment should be applied to correct them & make them aware.

[LAwLz]

20 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

First, having sex requires a consenting age of 16 which neither individuals had.

It's 15 in Denmark.

 

 

Actually, this kind of highlights how fucked up the justice system is.

Filming themselves having sex and then spreading it around was a terrible idea, and the people continuing to spread it are stupid. But come on... Are we really going to ruin the lives of 15 year olds just because they shared a video? Imagine being a registered sex offender and a pedophile as 15, because you shared a video of your classmates fucking.

 

I understand why the laws are the way they are, but I think it's messed up that a 40 year old can have sex with a 15 year old and it's totally fine in the eyes of the law, but two 15 years olds having a video of themselves fucking counts as possessing/producing child porn.

"Go ahead and have as much sex as you want. Just don't film or photograph it because if you do you'll become a registered sex offender!".

I can't think of any other law where doing the act itself is OK, but possessing images or video of it is considered one of the most serious crimes you can commit.

 

I hope the judge takes these things into consideration and gives a mild punishment, if any.

Doing what the law specifies would essentially result in 1000+ people having their entire lives ruined by falling behind education wise, getting a very poor social life, struggling to find jobs, and a long list of other issues.

[mr moose]

8 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

It's 15 in Denmark.

 

 

Actually, this kind of highlights how fucked up the justice system is.

Filming themselves having sex and then spreading it around was a terrible idea, and the people continuing to spread it are stupid. But come on... Are we really going to ruin the lives of 15 year olds just because they shared a video? Imagine being a registered sex offender and a pedophile as 15, because you shared a video of your classmates fucking.

 

I understand why the laws are the way they are, but I think it's messed up that a 40 year old can have sex with a 15 year old and it's totally fine in the eyes of the law, but two 15 years olds having a video of themselves fucking counts as possessing/producing child porn.

"Go ahead and have as much sex as you want. Just don't film or photograph it because if you do you'll become a registered sex offender!".

 

I hope the judge takes these things into consideration and gives a mild punishment, if any.

Doing what the law specifies would essentially result in 1000+ people having their entire lives ruined by falling behind education wise, getting a very poor social life, struggling to find jobs, and a long list of other issues.

The whole idea of the law being that way is to stop the exploitation of people under 18 without making laws that prevent 15 year old's from doing what comes naturally.

We have very similar laws in Australia and every child in high school is made aware of the law. Sharing a sex tape of someone under 18 is child porn PERIOD.

[Sakkura]

37 minutes ago, Tech_Dreamer said:

it's a good move from the officials. But should be thoroughly looked into each individual whether they knew fully well it was illegal or was it just a passive response to share something they got they presumed was something regular to legal , they acted without having that knowledge. otherwise counseling & some other form of harsh punishment should be applied to correct them & make them aware.

It was shared with tens of thousands of people, they say (in Danish media) that they've only charged people who actively shared the video with others. They're looking at possibly charging another 120-130 who allegedly actively asked to receive the video (but did not send it to others).

[Princess Luna]

You'd be amazed but in many places like Venezuela people still make a lot of money out of child porn.

 

It's very disgusting, if any thing though while there is people into it I don't think we can ever stop it... Best way around this awful habit would be through "art"? Animations, sex games like those Japanese ones, draws? Stuff that could satisfy the fetish without including actual people? It is a very hard reality either ways... 

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

The whole idea of the law being that way is to stop the exploitation of people under 18 without making laws that prevent 15 year old's from doing what comes naturally.

We have very similar laws in Australia and every child in high school is made aware of the law. Sharing a sex tape of someone under 18 is child porn PERIOD.

I get the idea behind it. We have the same laws here in Sweden (age of consent is 15).

Protecting people from exploitation is honorable and it most likely works very well, but I think the law is poorly made when it doesn't make the distinction between two 15 year olds doing it for fun and then shared a video of it with a friend, or a 40 year old filming sex with a child prostitute and spreading that video around.

 

Hopefully the judge will think the same way. The law is meant to protect people, not punish.

[Trixanity]

51 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I get the idea behind it. We have the same laws here in Sweden (age of consent is 15).

Protecting people from exploitation is honorable and it most likely works very well, but I think the law is poorly made when it doesn't make the distinction between two 15 year olds doing it for fun and then shared a video of it with a friend, or a 40 year old filming sex with a child prostitute and spreading that video around.

 

Hopefully the judge will think the same way. The law is meant to protect people, not punish.

You can be sure the punishment won't be the same as an adult. I expect most to receive fines and perhaps jail time for the most prolific sharers (most shared 1-5 times I think but some shared it over a 100 times). 

 

And the 'sex offender' listing isn't as insane as America's. It only means they can't work with children and I think it expires after 10 years (at least in this case) so it's not as bad as it looks. 

 

People like to talk about ruining lives but think of the victims: they've had it worse no matter how you look at it. Actions have consequences and while these kids claim ignorance, that's merely an excuse to get out of trouble. Kids aren't getting dumber (which their claims would otherwise indicate). They may not have expected to be charged but there is no way they did not know what they did was horrible and stupid. They did it anyway. Play stupid games; win stupid prizes.

 

It's good to finally see some form of justice. Sharing photos and videos of your peers including explicit content shouldn't become the norm but for some reason kids gravitate towards it becoming just that. Hopefully this incident will work. Various campaigns to stall the development have so far failed.

 

Edit: keep in mind these videos were shared without consent and in some cases neither party involved were aware of being filmed.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

 

Actually, this kind of highlights how fucked up the justice system is.

Filming themselves having sex and then spreading it around was a terrible idea, and the people continuing to spread it are stupid. But come on... Are we really going to ruin the lives of 15 year olds just because they shared a video? Imagine being a registered sex offender and a pedophile as 15, because you shared a video of your classmates fucking.

Yes, imagine being registered as someone who shared sex videos of underage people because you shared sex videos of underage people.

 

 

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

 

I understand why the laws are the way they are, but I think it's messed up that a 40 year old can have sex with a 15 year old and it's totally fine in the eyes of the law, but two 15 years olds having a video of themselves fucking counts as possessing/producing child porn.

No, not of themselves, but of others. This isn't a case against minors filming themselves, this is a case against people sharing around videos of minors having sex. The people sharing it happen to be underage as well. Being underage may change the kind of consequences you face, depending on the exact age and the particular legal system; it doesn't change the nature of the act. It makes no sense to say than a 40 year old killing someone is wrong, but a 15 year old killing someone is "come on... are you going to ruin their lives?".

 

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

"Go ahead and have as much sex as you want. Just don't film or photograph it because if you do you'll become a registered sex offender!".

Actually, you don't become a sex offender for that. It should rather say "Go ahead and have as much sex as you want. Just don't spread around videos and photographs of others your age doing it because if you do you'll become a registered sex offender! - just because you are the same age doesn't make them adults".

It does make full sense to me.

 

By the way, spreading private sex tapes of adults who did not consent to it would also be illegal.

 

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

I can't think of any other law where doing the act itself is OK, but possessing images or video of it is considered one of the most serious crimes you can commit.

Actually, every espionage and crime against privacy consists on exactly this: people doing perfectly legal things privately, and criminals possessing and distributing illegal images of videos of it.

You keep talking like there was 1000 people having sex independently, each filming themselves privately. That's not what happened here: it is 1000 people distributing images of a single underage couple over facebook messenger. It has nothing to do with "filming themselves" and everything to do with distributing images of underage third persons having sex.

 

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

I hope the judge takes these things into consideration and gives a mild punishment, if any.

Doing what the law specifies would essentially result in 1000+ people having their entire lives ruined by falling behind education wise, getting a very poor social life, struggling to find jobs, and a long list of other issues.

That's the kind of nonsense we typically read when an Ivy League bro rapes a girl: "think of his bright future ruined so young!". I'm sorry but there's a reason why these things are illegal, and yes, doing illegal things will kind of decrease your quality of life if you get caught, it's indeed the whole point of having laws punishing crimes.

[Energycore]

4 hours ago, Trixanity said:

Edit: keep in mind these videos were shared without consent and in some cases neither party involved were aware of being filmed.

I think this is the turning point for me. The people who filmed these teenagers without their consent deserve the most justice, but people who knowing that this was filmed incognito, still asked to see it or shared it, all deserve to be handled by the law.

3 hours ago, huilun02 said:

Firstworldproblemsmate

 

Just because they happen in the first world, doesn't mean they're not problems that need addressing.

 

3 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

That's the kind of nonsense we typically read when an Ivy League bro rapes a girl: "think of his bright future ruined so young!". I'm sorry but there's a reason why these things are illegal, and yes, doing illegal things will kind of decrease your quality of life if you get caught, it's indeed the whole point of having laws punishing crimes.

That reminded me of a very informative video on what we call "rape culture" in US universities. I recommend you watch it and judge its claims fairly.

 

 

On the main topic: To anyone who doesn't already think that facebook has access to your private messages, this is undeniable confirmation that it is the case, and I urge everyone who has children to educate them on the matter: Social Media is extremely public, even your private messages are. Do not go around giving information that you'd rather people not find out about. There are other platforms where you can send stuff more securely through the internet.

[Egg-Roll]

6 minutes ago, Energycore said:

On the main topic: To anyone who doesn't already think that facebook has access to your private messages, this is undeniable confirmation that it is the case, and I urge everyone who has children to educate them on the matter: Social Media is extremely public, even your private messages are. Do not go around giving information that you'd rather people not find out about. There are other platforms where you can send stuff more securely through the internet.

In cases like this I'm perfectly fine with the big boys having access to my stuff. It keeps me safe in ways many claim to be privacy invasion. Do I care if google tracks me even if I was to say no? Nope.

 

About educating the children, my biggest question is why would parents even permit such things while they are still attending school? (it would be fairly obvious) I understand the whole "behind their backs" but then it becomes a issue of who teaches the kids sex ed and the laws around it?

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/sex-education-ontario-curriculum-1.3220454

 

Imo things should be taught before consent however I think the Ont gov has taken it too far based on starting times. However this brings up the question, what is in place to teach the kids about the laws over there? Unless the kids knew full well what they were doing was wrong I can't really support punishing the kids in extreme cases (as mentioned), for one little mistake that they knew nothing of because the adults failed at their jobs the kids now get screwed for life?

 

While very unlikely it is still possible today for 2 people to record their actions w/o ever seeing or visiting such sites that could hint a legal requirement for sharing such content, equally could be said the same about those who were in possession of the content.

 

Also fun fact: When you first open your facebook account all your posts are initially public, or at least it was like that a few years ago.

I'd also like to note, I know nothing about the schooling, responsibilities or laws over there.

[goodtofufriday]

6 hours ago, mr moose said:

The whole idea of the law being that way is to stop the exploitation of people under 18 without making laws that prevent 15 year old's from doing what comes naturally.

We have very similar laws in Australia and every child in high school is made aware of the law. Sharing a sex tape of someone under 18 is child porn PERIOD.

Didn't australia also make it illegal for medical or teacher professions to report cases of child abuse?

[ItsMitch]

People who share shit like this deserve a severe punishment, they should be treated like felon's, not this fine bullshit throw them in prison for a few years

[Sauron]

7 hours ago, LAwLz said:

It's 15 in Denmark.

 

 

Actually, this kind of highlights how fucked up the justice system is.

Filming themselves having sex and then spreading it around was a terrible idea, and the people continuing to spread it are stupid. But come on... Are we really going to ruin the lives of 15 year olds just because they shared a video? Imagine being a registered sex offender and a pedophile as 15, because you shared a video of your classmates fucking.

 

I understand why the laws are the way they are, but I think it's messed up that a 40 year old can have sex with a 15 year old and it's totally fine in the eyes of the law, but two 15 years olds having a video of themselves fucking counts as possessing/producing child porn.

"Go ahead and have as much sex as you want. Just don't film or photograph it because if you do you'll become a registered sex offender!".

I can't think of any other law where doing the act itself is OK, but possessing images or video of it is considered one of the most serious crimes you can commit.

 

I hope the judge takes these things into consideration and gives a mild punishment, if any.

Doing what the law specifies would essentially result in 1000+ people having their entire lives ruined by falling behind education wise, getting a very poor social life, struggling to find jobs, and a long list of other issues.

Yeah, it's pretty weird... if they think at 15 you're young enough to be considered a child and for a sexual video of you to be considered pedopornography (which I would agree with) then why is the age of consent so low?

 

As for the offenders, they are basically kids... and while this doesn't really excuse their stupid behaviour (at 15 I would have had more than enough common sense to not even consider sharing porn, let alone stuff with minors in it, but then again I've heard of and personally know older people who have done something like this even though they should definitely know better) I don't think they deserve their lives ruined over this. I hope the scare (and maybe a fine) is enough to kick some sense into them.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

1 hour ago, Energycore said:

 

That reminded me of a very informative video on what we call "rape culture" in US universities. I recommend you watch it and judge its claims fairly.

 

I think that goes way beyond my point. The concept of "rape culture" is a can of worms of its own, and a discussion that doesn't change the fact that legally established punishments having consequences is not a reason not to apply legally established punishment when a particular law violation is considered proven.

I cited the rape example because of a relatively recent case in which a judge did find the defendant guilty, and then proceeded to sentence him to like 6 months (it might have been longer, with 6 months of effective prison, don't remember the details now) invoking "the dramatic impact on the life" of the defendant he had just found guilty, as if it was a valid extenuating consideration. In other words, "think of the children" is not a valid reason for law enforcement or justice officials to step over the boundaries into the lawmakers' job.

[Sauron]

17 minutes ago, SC2Mitch said:

People who share shit like this deserve a severe punishment, they should be treated like felon's, not this fine bullshit throw them in prison for a few years

Well... do they? While it was stupid and insensitive, the harm done is hardly worthy of prison. The victim wasn't raped (not even in a statutory way given the laws of Denmark) and didn't receive any violence, the worst part of all this is public shaming - which is bad of course, but all in all not nearly as harmful as years of prison.

[ItsMitch]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

Well... do they? While it was stupid and insensitive, the harm done is hardly worthy of prison. The victim wasn't raped (not even in a statutory way given the laws of Denmark) and didn't receive any violence, the worst part of all this is public shaming - which is bad of course, but all in all not nearly as harmful as years of prison.

If anyone sends around child porn, regardless of the age deserve to get the biggest book thrown at then, rape or not it's disgusting and fucking disgraceful

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

I think that goes way beyond my point. The concept of "rape culture" is a can of worms of its own, and a discussion that doesn't change the fact that legally established punishments having consequences is not a reason not to apply legally established punishment when a particular law violation is considered proven.

I cited the rape example because of a relatively recent case in which a judge did find the defendant guilty, and then proceeded to sentence him to like 6 months (it might have been longer, with 6 months of effective prison, don't remember the details now) invoking "the dramatic impact on the life" of the defendant he had just found guilty, as if it was a valid extenuating consideration. In other words, "think of the children" is not a valid reason for law enforcement or justice officials to step over the boundaries into the lawmakers' job.

As far as I know judges can dish out whatever punishment they wish within the confines of the law (e.g. minimum and maximum jail time) - they aren't forced to give the maximum penalty even if the defendant is found guilty. In the case you're referring to I would agree the judge was too lenient on someone who really wasn't a child anymore, but the crime was much worse and the reason for lenience not very convincing. Sharing something on facebook without thinking of the consequences is, sadly, very common nowadays and doesn't imply any harm was intended - even though it is stupid.

[Sauron]

2 minutes ago, SC2Mitch said:

If anyone sends around child porn, regardless of the age deserve to get the biggest book thrown at then, rape or not it's disgusting and fucking disgraceful

Have you read the news story? These kids are roughly of the same age as the victim. They don't see it as child porn, especially since the legal age for sex in Denmark is 15. They either didn't know or didn't think that it would be considered child pornography. While I agree that it's stupid and disgusting (particularly from the perspective of an adult), I think the circumstances warrant some lenience.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

10 minutes ago, Sauron said:

As far as I know judges can dish out whatever punishment they wish within the confines of the law (e.g. minimum and maximum jail time) - they aren't forced to give the maximum penalty even if the defendant is found guilty.

Of course, that's why there's a minimum and a maximum - for non-guilty it better is always zero  

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In the case you're referring to I would agree the judge was too lenient on someone who really wasn't a child anymore, but the crime was much worse and the reason for lenience not very convincing.

That is my main point, that the reason for lenience can't be "now that I have to actually apply this law, I kind of feel pity for the guy".

 

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Sharing something on facebook without thinking of the consequences is, sadly, very common nowadays and doesn't imply any harm was intended - even though it is stupid.

I would argue that something illegal becoming very common is not a reason to relax enforcement, precisely... Again, as I said in my first post, I'm completely fine with legal systems contemplating different scales and forms of punishment for adults and children in general, and that is the case in every country I know of. So, in this case, Denmark will have in its laws a provision for how to treat people at 15, 16, etc, which may or may not be the same as adults. But if the law says, for example, that from 16 onwards they are judged as adults, then for a large part of them there is no way around it, and passing children having sex around is passing children having sex around. Mind you, some of the accused people aren't even underage (I believe the article said up to 20 years old), so for at least a fraction of them there isn't really any way around it.

 

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hey don't see it as child porn, especially since the legal age for sex in Denmark is 15. They either didn't know or didn't think that it would be considered child pornography. 

Those young enough may successfully  argue this to get a more lenient treatment (won't work as well for adults, I think), although they would be basically arguing they intentionally committed a less severe offense (you cannot just send around grownups' nudes without consent, think of "the fappening"...)

 

 

[Eduard the weeb]

this is sad 

like seriously filming it and also spreading it is just so weird and then theirs the fact that many of the teenagers involved probably didn't realize the consequences of watching that. 

 

also question lets say these kids posted it to a porn website would it then it was viewed its assumed everyone on the site is 18+ but they were 15 then would anyone who viewed it be arrested or would it be considered as the teens fault for posting it wall they are underage?

[AlTech]

 

1 minute ago, Eduard the weeb said:

also question lets say these kids posted it to a porn website would it then it was viewed its assumed everyone on the site is 18+ but they were 15 then would anyone who viewed it be arrested or would it be considered as the teens fault for posting it wall they are underage?

That would still be in the wrong.

[Sauron]

1 minute ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

That is my main point, that the reason for lenience can't be "now that I have to actually apply this law, I kind of feel pity for the guy".

Well no - the human element is essential to the judge's job. Otherwise you could just take the jury's verdict and apply the law to the letter with fixed variants. The judge must consider the person they're facing and what they actually deserve. Pity is part of the job.

3 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

I would argue that something illegal becoming very common is not a reason to relax enforcement, precisely... Again, as I said in my first post, I'm completely fine with legal systems contemplating different scales and forms of punishment for adults and children in general, and that is the case in every country I know of. So, in this case, Denmark will have in its laws a provision for how to treat people at 15, 16, etc, which may or may not be the same as adults. But if the law says, for example, that from 16 onwards they are judged as adults, then for a large part of them there is no way around it, and passing children having sex around is passing children having sex around. Mind you, some of the accused people aren't even underage (I believe the article said up to 20 years old), so for at least a fraction of them there isn't really any way around it.

I don't know Danish law nearly well enough to know what the procedure for dealing with minors is, but at 15 you're not considered an adult (hence why this is considered pedopornography). For the adults involved I'm sure the punishments will vary - I was talking mainly about the minors. And no, of course something being common doesn't make it acceptable, but it can make it understandable. Besides, I'm sure whatever happens this run-in with the law will have lasting consequences in their lives, psychologically at least.

7 minutes ago, Eduard the weeb said:

also question lets say these kids posted it to a porn website would it then it was viewed its assumed everyone on the site is 18+ but they were 15 then would anyone who viewed it be arrested or would it be considered as the teens fault for posting it wall they are underage?

Viewing it without knowing the "protagonists" are underage isn't a crime as far as I know, but it's up to the site to moderate uploads and make sure stuff like that gets taken down as soon as possible. Those sharing would be guilty in the same way as they are for sharing it on facebook.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

Just now, Sauron said:

Well no - the human element is essential to the judge's job. Otherwise you could just take the jury's verdict and apply the law to the letter with fixed variants. The judge must consider the person they're facing and what they actually deserve. Pity is part of the job.

That may be true in common law countries. I don't know the details of Denmark, but in general continental / roman law traditions lean towards a more "gramophone" view of judges, and too much discretion is seen as an excess in the exercise of power and a violation of separation of powers (as deciding what is deserved is the legislators' job). Especially focusing on the person is prevarication, since laws and court rulings should be based on objective types and circumstances, so that everyone in the same situation gets the same result. In other words, the judge must attend to the circumstances, but those circumstances objectively stipulated by the law, without reference to any individual person. He can't just say "well, but it's Timmy... you know, Timmy!". For example, that means that if you and I were identical, and I rob a bank, while you first save a person from drowning and then rob a bank, we are serving the same sentence for robbing. They cannot just say that "overall, your actions during that day deserve X all things considered". Such limits on what is considered relevant for a ruling is essential to have proper rule of law.

"Dura lex, sed lex".

 

 

[Taja]

I dont really care about the age of the people involved in the sex video, the real problem is the fact that the video is being shared AT ALL.

Revenge porn, leaked porn or whatever it is causes lots  of trouble and is really unethical. Here in Brazil there are lots of victims, and they often have to change school, city or even isolate themselfs for months. There are lots of cases of female suicide. 

 

Really, I hate this. Porn is great, when everyone involved is aware of it - just go to a site with porn actresses and stop ruining other people lives just because they have sex.