Posted January 16, 2018 Remedy Entertainment, the developed behind Quantum Break and the now infamously terrible launch of Quantum Break, has confessed that AAA Single Player Games are too expensive to make. Quote Remedy Entertainment is moving away from the traditional AAA single player experience, though they’ve vowed to retain their trademark focus on storytelling. Their next game (codenamed P7 and published by 505 Games) will have cooperative multiplayer elements to try and enhance replayability. We’ve known as much for a while now, but Remedy Entertainment’s Head of Communications Thomas Puha revealed a bit more on this shift in an interview published today on GamesIndustry.biz. I This is what the Remedy Entertainment head of communications had to say: Quote The reality is the traditional AAA single player experience is just really expensive to make. The expectation level from gamers is really high in terms of how long the game is, what sort of features it has, how good the production values are. All those things are very expensive to do. And if you go back 10 years, you could still say the console market is roughly the same size. In the end, the audience you’re selling to is relatively the same size but the cost of making the game is ten-fold these days. So that’s an obvious problem. From a creative perspective, even when we made Alan Wake, it was like we spent all this time creating the characters, the universe, the rules and everything. It’s a place where you want the player to spend a longer period of time, and that’s hard to do in the traditional single-player space. <Sarcasm> Oh shit! Would you look at that??!! AAA games are too f*cking expensive to make! Boo hoo hoo. Oh dear, whatever will the gaming industry do now? </Sarcasm> Inb4, next financial analyst day for any AAA publisher "AAA Single Player games are too expensive to make". I think it's personally a whole load of shit and that they're just tired of not milking every last dime from players. Hoepfully the AAA gaming space crashes down soon or something cos they need a reality check. Source: https://wccftech.com/remedy-aaa-single-player-expensive-make/ Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it. How to setup MSI Afterburner OSD | How to make your AMD Radeon GPU more efficient with Radeon Chill | (Probably) Why LMG Merch shipping to the EU is expensive Oneplus 6 (Early 2023 to present) | HP Envy 15" x360 R7 5700U (Mid 2021 to present) | Steam Deck (Late 2022 to present) Mid 2023 AlTech Desktop Refresh - AMD R7 5800X (Mid 2023), XFX Radeon RX 6700XT MBA (Mid 2021), MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon (Early 2018), 32GB DDR4-3200 (16GB x2) (Mid 2022 Noctua NH-D15 (Early 2021), Corsair MP510 1.92TB NVMe SSD (Mid 2020), beQuiet Pure Wings 2 140mm x2 & 120mm x1 (Mid 2023), Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 Yeah, sure. @ CD Projekt Red: Go ahead and cancel Cyberpunk 2077, since Witcher 3 didn't pay off. Maybe, just maybe, if companies were to put out good, worthwhile AAA story-based games, then it'd be worth it. See: CD Projekt Red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 Is this just their excuse for how badly Quantum Break turned out? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 Thread Title: "AAA Single Player Games are too expensive to make" Actual Quote: "The reality is the traditional AAA single player experience is just really expensive to make." Those two quotes imply pretty different things, you know. I don't see anything unreasonable or untrue in what Thomas Puha is actually saying. EDIT: Removed mini-argument because I over-inferred some stuff. 3 am = time to go to bed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 Soooooo We already knew that these games were expensive. These devs don't seem to realize that of course we are going to expect better and better as tech and player viewpoint matures. The "standard" pc game industry is very new relatively speaking compared to consoles. I would not be surprised to see in a few years that game dev costs have dropped due to the tools available getting better and better. Then costs will rise again, and rinse and repeat. It all depends on the time period you are in. Use this guide to fix text problems in your post. Go here and here for all your power supply needs New Build Currently Under Construction! See here!!!! -----> Spoiler Deathwatch:[CPU I7 4790K @ 4.5GHz][RAM TEAM VULCAN 16 GB 1600][MB ASRock Z97 Anniversary][GPU XFX Radeon RX 480 8GB][STORAGE 250GB SAMSUNG EVO SSD Samsung 2TB HDD 2TB WD External Drive][COOLER Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo][PSU Cooler Master 650M][Case Thermaltake Core V31] Spoiler Cupid:[CPU Core 2 Duo E8600 3.33GHz][RAM 3 GB DDR2][750GB Samsung 2.5" HDD/HDD Seagate 80GB SATA/Samsung 80GB IDE/WD 325GB IDE][MB Acer M1641][CASE Antec][[PSU Altec 425 Watt][GPU Radeon HD 4890 1GB][TP-Link 54MBps Wireless Card] Spoiler Carlile: [CPU 2x Pentium 3 1.4GHz][MB ASUS TR-DLS][RAM 2x 512MB DDR ECC Registered][GPU Nvidia TNT2 Pro][PSU Enermax][HDD 1 IDE 160GB, 4 SCSI 70GB][RAID CARD Dell Perc 3] Spoiler Zeonnight [CPU AMD Athlon x2 4400][GPU Sapphire Radeon 4650 1GB][RAM 2GB DDR2] Spoiler Server [CPU 2x Xeon L5630][PSU Dell Poweredge 850w][HDD 1 SATA 160GB, 3 SAS 146GB][RAID CARD Dell Perc 6i] Spoiler Kero [CPU Pentium 1 133Mhz] [GPU Cirrus Logic LCD 1MB Graphics Controller] [Ram 48MB ][HDD 1.4GB Hitachi IDE] Spoiler Mining Rig: [CPU Athlon 64 X2 4400+][GPUS 9 RX 560s, 2 RX 570][HDD 160GB something][RAM 8GBs DDR3][PSUs 1 Thermaltake 700w, 2 Delta 900w 120v Server modded] RAINBOWS!!! QUOTE ME SO I CAN SEE YOUR REPLYS!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said: Single Player Games are too expensive to make says Developer of Quantum Break More like: Quote Single Player Games are too expensive to make says an idiot who thought using the Microsoft store/UWP was a good platform to sell a game on PC. Insert ram related question here: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1197132-setting-ram-speed-xmp-docp-for-dummies/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 Well SureAI managed to pull of a probably better game for free with Enderal using a much smaller team while only borrowing the engine and some resources from Skyrim. Probably having to deal with UWP/The windows store and being forced to use DX12 , both things which the average game developer probably has little experience in, ended up driving up the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 Guys why are you raging that a guy from company that hires 140 people as of 2017 is saying that making AAA is expensive? It is, for them its VERY expensive. They are 3x smaller than CDPR (which is considered small in comparison to the giants), of course AAA games are going to be expensive for them. Even Witcher3 cost CDPR $81mil to make which they paid from their own pockets, do you think they would be around making 2077 if that did not pan out? Reserve your sarcasm when Ubisoft/EA make those claims. CPU: i7 6950X | Motherboard: Asus Rampage V ed. 10 | RAM: 32 GB Corsair Dominator Platinum Special Edition 3200 MHz (CL14) | GPUs: 2x Asus GTX 1080ti SLI Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1 TB M.2 NVME | PSU: In Win SIV 1065W Cooling: Custom LC 2 x 360mm EK Radiators | EK D5 Pump | EK 250 Reservoir | EK RVE10 Monoblock | EK GPU Blocks & Backplates | Alphacool Fittings & Connectors | Alphacool Glass Tubing Case: In Win Tou 2.0 | Display: Alienware AW3418DW | Sound: Woo Audio WA8 Eclipse + Focal Utopia Headphones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 They're not expensive because of the games though, they're expensive because of poor business decisions by the company. TL:DR BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 the devs behind Hitman would like to have a word with them One day I will be able to play Monster Hunter Frontier in French/Italian/English on my PC, it's just a matter of time... 4 5 6 7 8 9 years later: It's finally coming!!! Phones: iPhone 4S/SE | LG V10 | Lumia 920 | Samsung S24 Ultra Laptops: Macbook Pro 15" (mid-2012) | Compaq Presario V6000 Other: Steam Deck <>EVs are bad, they kill the planet and remove freedoms too some/<> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 "oh damn, that lame ass game, that looks and plays like we developed it in only 30mins didn't pay off, the PC/game industry must be dead!" Gaming HTPC: R5 5600X - Cryorig C7 - Asus ROG B350-i - EVGA RTX2060KO - 16gb G.Skill Ripjaws V 3333mhz - Corsair SF450 - 500gb 960 EVO - LianLi TU100B Desktop PC: R9 3900X - Peerless Assassin 120 SE - Asus Prime X570 Pro - Powercolor 7900XT - 32gb LPX 3200mhz - Corsair SF750 Platinum - 1TB WD SN850X - CoolerMaster NR200 White - Gigabyte M27Q-SA - Corsair K70 Rapidfire - Logitech MX518 Legendary - HyperXCloud Alpha wireless Boss-NAS [Build Log]: R5 2400G - Noctua NH-D14 - Asus Prime X370-Pro - 16gb G.Skill Aegis 3000mhz - Seasonic Focus Platinum 550W - Fractal Design R5 - 250gb 970 Evo (OS) - 2x500gb 860 Evo (Raid0) - 6x4TB WD Red (RaidZ2) Synology-NAS: DS920+ 2x4TB Ironwolf - 1x18TB Seagate Exos X20 Audio Gear: Hifiman HE-400i - Kennerton Magister - Beyerdynamic DT880 250Ohm - AKG K7XX - Fostex TH-X00 - O2 Amp/DAC Combo - Klipsch RP280F - Klipsch RP160M - Klipsch RP440C - Yamaha RX-V479 Reviews and Stuff: GTX 780 DCU2 // 8600GTS // Hifiman HE-400i // Kennerton Magister Folding all the Proteins! // Boincerino Useful Links: Do you need an AMP/DAC? // Recommended Audio Gear // PSU Tier List Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 22 minutes ago, Scionyde said: Thread Title: "AAA Single Player Games are too expensive to make" More like: Single Player Games mean less microtransactions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 Well, GTA V was really expensive to make but they still profited out of it so I dont know what is your problem Quantum Break suitmans... maybe just make a game that is actually good so that people buy it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 Author 3 minutes ago, WereCat said: Well, GTA V was really expensive to make but they still profited out of it Well yes they did with GTA V Story. But greed got the better of them and then they created GTAO to milk their customers dry of money cos making a profit wasn't good enough. Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it. How to setup MSI Afterburner OSD | How to make your AMD Radeon GPU more efficient with Radeon Chill | (Probably) Why LMG Merch shipping to the EU is expensive Oneplus 6 (Early 2023 to present) | HP Envy 15" x360 R7 5700U (Mid 2021 to present) | Steam Deck (Late 2022 to present) Mid 2023 AlTech Desktop Refresh - AMD R7 5800X (Mid 2023), XFX Radeon RX 6700XT MBA (Mid 2021), MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon (Early 2018), 32GB DDR4-3200 (16GB x2) (Mid 2022 Noctua NH-D15 (Early 2021), Corsair MP510 1.92TB NVMe SSD (Mid 2020), beQuiet Pure Wings 2 140mm x2 & 120mm x1 (Mid 2023), Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 i finished Okami HD on the PC, amazing game BTW. Granted it's not a new game, but it still a port of a very old console game. Amazed that i did not find a single bug, had a single crash, did not lost a single save,.... I miss when they did not released broken crap and still complained. https://overclock3d.net/reviews/gpu_displays/quantum_break_pc_performance_review/1 https://www.pcgamesn.com/quantum-break/quantum-break-steam-performance so f* you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said: Well yes they did with GTA V Story. But greed got the better of them and then they created GTAO to milk their customers dry of money cos making a profit wasn't good enough. in that case you only spend more money if you want to. That is greed that i don't complain. GTA V story was very good, not amazing. I liked it. The work put into it must have been brutal, could have just made a sandbox and repeat some stupid side quests over and over, climb some towers, and a shity story. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 At the end of the day, the business is in control of the cost and content of their product. Developing a game is both easier and cheaper now than it has ever been. It's just that game development companies choose to spend more money. They hire more developers than they used to. They hire more artists. They spend more on marketing. They are the ones choosing to do all those things. The original Unreal game was created by 15 people. That was it. That includes the producers, designers, programmers, sound and visual artists. They did not use any of the convienence luxuries we have today either, like pre-made game engines. They did everything themselves. Of course a game will be more expensive if you employ ~150 people instead of 15. That is your decision though. I'm sure they would love to argue that the increase in people result in a better game, and I am not entirely convinced. It might be better in some regards but I wouldn't be surprised if "too many cooks" often creates problems too. It's like with the LinusTechTips channel. "We have all these ads in our videos because we need money to pay our employees". The amount of videos (and games) haven't gone up from these video creators (game developers), but they have willingly increased the cost of production. The only ones to blame for the increased costs are themselves. They are the only ones in control of their production costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 Here's an idea, stop spending lots of developer time and money on infrastructure to support unprofitable multiplayer elements that never pay themselves back. Games cost more money to develop now because everything just has to be open world sandbox with as much multiplayer aspects as possible, the two most resource intensive and problematic to code while integrating in to the story of the game that greatly impacts the mechanics of the game limiting what you can do. If games are costing too much to make limit your scope, that is 100% guaranteed to reduce cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Scionyde said: Thread Title: "AAA Single Player Games are too expensive to make" Actual Quote: "The reality is the traditional AAA single player experience is just really expensive to make." Those two quotes imply pretty different things, you know. I don't see anything unreasonable or untrue in what Thomas Puha is actually saying. Details separate people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 It really doesn't matter how big of a game you're making, as long as it's good, you can sell millions of copies with less than half the cost of AAA games. Proof: indie games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 Let's look at some evidence shall we... SP Games everyone praised in 2017 Zelda BOTW Uncharted The Lost Legacy Nioh Getting Over It Mario & Rabbids Metroid Samus Returns Sonic Mania Hellblade Senuas Sacrifice Cuphead Wolfenstein 2 Horizon Zero Dawn Prey Resident Evil 7 Nier Automata Odyssey Assassin's Creed Origins MP Games everyone praised in 2017 PUBG Xcom 2 Games everyone hated in 2017 SWBF2 - Lootboxes NBA2k18 - Lootboxes Shadow Of War - Lootboxes Destiny 2 - Lootboxes Need For Speed Payback - Lootboxes Ghost Recon Wildlands - Repetitive & Boring For Honor - Lootboxes Mass Effect Andromeda - Broken AF So tell me again devs how single player games aren't popular and don't make money. The problem AAA publishers have is unrealistic expectations, they set arbitrary performance goals, usually months before the games even launch and then class the game as a failure if it doesn't meet said goals. Making a profit isn't enough these days, games have to make enough profit to match predictions. Also anybody remember EA saying the BF2 fiasco wouldn't hurt them materially? Yeah EA basically admitted that they make enough profit out of their games to cover costs without Lootboxes. You'd have to be a special kind of special to believe that making online focused games is somehow cheaper than making SP games, they prefer MP games cause they can nickel & dime players easier. Fuck the gaming industry. Main Rig:- Ryzen 7 3800X | Asus ROG Strix X570-F Gaming | 16GB Team Group Dark Pro 3600Mhz | Corsair MP600 1TB PCIe Gen 4 | Sapphire 5700 XT Pulse | Corsair H115i Platinum | WD Black 1TB | WD Green 4TB | EVGA SuperNOVA G3 650W | Asus TUF GT501 | Samsung C27HG70 1440p 144hz HDR FreeSync 2 | Ubuntu 20.04.2 LTS | Server:- Intel NUC running Server 2019 + Synology DSM218+ with 2 x 4TB Toshiba NAS Ready HDDs (RAID0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 53 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said: Well yes they did with GTA V Story. But greed got the better of them and then they created GTAO to milk their customers dry of money cos making a profit wasn't good enough. TBH, even when I used to play GTAO I forgot that it even existed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 42 minutes ago, LAwLz said: At the end of the day, the business is in control of the cost and content of their product. Developing a game is both easier and cheaper now than it has ever been. It's just that game development companies choose to spend more money. They hire more developers than they used to. They hire more artists. They spend more on marketing. They are the ones choosing to do all those things. The original Unreal game was created by 15 people. That was it. That includes the producers, designers, programmers, sound and visual artists. They did not use any of the convienence luxuries we have today either, like pre-made game engines. They did everything themselves. Of course a game will be more expensive if you employ ~150 people instead of 15. That is your decision though. I'm sure they would love to argue that the increase in people result in a better game, and I am not entirely convinced. It might be better in some regards but I wouldn't be surprised if "too many cooks" often creates problems too. It's like with the LinusTechTips channel. "We have all these ads in our videos because we need money to pay our employees". The amount of videos (and games) haven't gone up from these video creators (game developers), but they have willingly increased the cost of production. The only ones to blame for the increased costs are themselves. They are the only ones in control of their production costs. Although I like the idea of small development teams and releasing great software, it just does not work that way in the gaming industry in my experience. You can have cookie-cutter games that are made within a year by a single person and sell well, but they likely use assets and software from others and the codebase may not be the prettiest. When looking at games from 10 years ago and now the main difference is in my opinion the new techniques and expectations. We did not use to have PBR and now nearly everyone expects every game to have it as it is the now the de facto standard. Increase in techniques, more complicated gameplay and higher expectations forces an increase in manpower and cost. Not everyone uses existing engines and wants to pay licensing fees. In addition some are not fit for the job and you will be forced to create your own, it is not as if Unity or Unreal Engine automatically fit your requirements. These engines may be versatile but can lack in certain areas that are important for specific genre's. Either have 100 people working on a game and have it released within 2 years, or have 10 and wait a lifetime just to see your game change overtime because it has aged. (All depends on the game and goal though) I just think your opinion is far too one-sided, though I agree that 'business-people' force the release of a game too early just to pump out more games for the extra cash. Your average Software Engineering student. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Master Disaster said: Let's look at some evidence shall we... Divinity Original Sin 2 as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posted January 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, Master Disaster said: Let's look at some evidence shall we... SP Games everyone praised in 2017 Zelda BOTW Uncharted The Lost Legacy Nioh Getting Over It Mario & Rabbids Metroid Samus Returns Sonic Mania Hellblade Senuas Sacrifice Cuphead Wolfenstein 2 Horizon Zero Dawn Prey Resident Evil 7 Nier Automata Odyssey Assassin's Creed Origins MP Games everyone praised in 2017 PUBG Xcom 2 Games everyone hated in 2017 SWBF2 - Lootboxes NBA2k18 - Lootboxes Shadow Of War - Lootboxes Destiny 2 - Lootboxes Need For Speed Payback - Lootboxes Ghost Recon Wildlands - Repetitive & Boring For Honor - Lootboxes Mass Effect Andromeda - Broken AF So tell me again devs how single player games aren't popular and don't make money. The problem AAA publishers have is unrealistic expectations, they set arbitrary performance goals, usually months before the games even launch and then class the game as a failure if it doesn't meet said goals. Making a profit isn't enough these days, games have to make enough profit to match predictions. Also anybody remember EA saying the BF2 fiasco wouldn't hurt them materially? Yeah EA basically admitted that they make enough profit out of their games to cover costs without Lootboxes. You'd have to be a special kind of special to believe that making online focused games is somehow cheaper than making SP games, they prefer MP games cause they can nickel & dime players easier. Fuck the gaming industry. You don't see many multiplayer games being praised because most good ones are already out and don't require a sequel that squeezes $60 out of you ever year. Rocket League, CSGO, OW, LoL, OW, Dota, HOTS, StarCraft, PUBG, R6S ect are MP games that will be around for years. Meanwhile during the life span of some of these youve seen 2-3 SP games from the same franchise. i7-6700k Cooling: Deepcool Captain 240EX White GPU: GTX 1080Ti EVGA FTW3 Mobo: AsRock Z170 Extreme4 Case: Phanteks P400s TG Special Black/White PSU: EVGA 850w GQ Ram: 64GB (3200Mhz 16x4 Corsair Vengeance RGB) Storage 1x 1TB Seagate Barracuda 240GBSandisk SSDPlus, 480GB OCZ Trion 150, 1TB Crucial NVMe (Rest of Specs on Profile) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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