I have a question for Germans

[WhatComesAround]

So I will probably be going to study in Germany in half a year or so and I am mining cryptocurrency. From what I have heard it costs around USD 30 Cents per kWh in Germany, which is ridiculous, is this true? Can any Germans confirm this? I also found some articles saying it was more like 5 Cents so I don't get how much it really is, I get that it depends on the region but it should be more or less close in price. Thanks in advance. 

[Urishima]

Depends on the region, but yes that is indeed the national average. In general, west Germany is more expensive than east Germany (former GDR states), and the south tends to be more expensive than the north. Of course you also have differences between the big cities and more rural areas. You can shop for for electricity suppliers and may be able to shave off a few cents per KW that way.

 

Dunno how it works where you are from, but in Germany you usually pay a fixed amount per year. Then once a year they check how much you actually used, and then adjust your payments for the next year accordingly. So if you used less than they expected, you will usually pay less the following year and you are going to get the difference for the last year back. Of course if you used more power than expected, you can expect to pay more, and you owe them the difference between what they expected you to use and what you actually used. Works the same with heating.

[AugOwnz]

It works as Urishima said, prices are very high due to demands for "eco power"(fuck that imo). I spend about 0.298$ per kW.

[Froody129]

25 minutes ago, AugOwnz said:

It works as Urishima said, prices are very high due to demands for "eco power"(fuck that imo). I spend about 0.298$ per kW.

How come you’re so against eco power?

[WhatComesAround]

13 minutes ago, Froody129 said:

How come you’re so against eco power?

 

39 minutes ago, AugOwnz said:

It works as Urishima said, prices are very high due to demands for "eco power"(fuck that imo). I spend about 0.298$ per kW.

Isn't that counter intuitive? I mean if you are going to encourage eco power then make it cheap so everyone switches to it. Otherwise, just as you have demonstrated, people will be discouraged from using it.

[Urishima]

39 minutes ago, WhatComesAround said:

Isn't that counter intuitive? I mean if you are going to encourage eco power then make it cheap so everyone switches to it. Otherwise, just as you have demonstrated, people will be discouraged from using it.

That would mean subsidizing it, as in pumping taxpayer money into it and keeping it afloat artificially. It's not sustainable and you just end up jacking up taxes (already pretty high in Germany) to compensate, so it's all the same anyway. If it can't stand up on it's own, then I see no reason to force it. Not on my dime at least.

 

Green energies are just not capable to reliably supply power to an industrial economy. Fission Plants would be ideal if you care about pollution, but the nation turned stupid when Fukushima happened.

[WhatComesAround]

6 minutes ago, Urishima said:

That would mean subsidizing it, as in pumping taxpayer money into it and keeping it afloat artificially. It's not sustainable and you just end up jacking up taxes (already pretty high in Germany) to compensate, so it's all the same anyway. If it can't stand up on it's own, then I see no reason to force it. Not on my dime at least.

 

Green energies are just not capable to reliably supply power to an industrial economy. Fission Plants would be ideal if you care about pollution, but the nation turned stupid when Fukushima happened.

I see how it works then. Is there the option to pick green energy or dirty energy? I have seen a lot of videos of miners using solar, and I think if I continue to mine and grow my mine I will switch to solar and wind, but it will have to be grid tied (Which is why I am concerned about electricity costs). Also it seems like the 0.3 per kWh is far too much. For instance a solar array with an output of around say 1000W would be around 1600 USD and that would power my mining equipment for around say 10 hours. If we would use the 0.3 Cents per kWh that would mean, running my equipment for 10 hours would save me 3 USD a day, and 1600 USD in 530 ish days. That's around a year and a half, then after my ROI I would be able to use those panels for another 23.5 YEARS! Keep in mind that in most countries the ROI for having solar panels is 7 YEARS, but with the prices in Germany it's way lower which isn't good. That means its more expensive than it should be, because you end up paying for the whole country's solar plant in say 2 years but it will earn revenue for the next 23 and none of that goes to you (obviously). I am not an economist by any means, but from the way I think is, put the people first. If you want people to be for green energy make it not AS profitable but affordable for Germans so they have positive view on it. Looks like if I would want my farm anywhere near me it would have to be in Belarus (my grandparents place, 5 cents a KWH) which will take 15 hours to drive to but worth it in the end.

[Anghammarad]

The problem here in germany... the electricity providers have slept too long on their infrastructure... like always in "big business" why keep things up to date when fixing is cheaper... 

 

So those cried out and our government decided to put several "taxes" onto electricity... the electricity providers say "lookie here we aren't that expensive it's taxes and whatnots", but those extra fees they receive.

 

And this because they were to profit driven and lazy to adapt their infrastructure over time...

 

Its a big "we the people get clusterfucked by government for the benefit of big business" over and over again...

 

On the "green energy" there are quite a lot of days were over 70% of the whole german electricity usage is generated by renewable energies. Wind and Solar... 

 

The problem with those... the sun doesn't always shine bright, and then there are times with no wind at all... if both comes together the renewables break down in energy production. And we still don't have the capacity and technical knowledge of store huge amounts of energy really quick and long lasting.

 

 

Quick Edit because I forgot...

 

my last electrical bill said 25% of the costs are for electricity alone, 75% for taxes and net provider fees...

 

[Froody129]

8 minutes ago, Anghammarad said:

The problem here in germany... the electricity providers have slept too long on their infrastructure... like always in "big business" why keep things up to date when fixing is cheaper... 

 

So those cried out and our government decided to put several "taxes" onto electricity... the electricity providers say "lookie here we aren't that expensive it's taxes and whatnots", but those extra fees they receive.

 

And this because they were to profit driven and lazy to adapt their infrastructure over time...

 

Its a big "we the people get clusterfucked by government for the benefit of big business" over and over again...

 

On the "green energy" there are quite a lot of days were over 70% of the whole german electricity usage is generated by renewable energies. Wind and Solar... 

 

The problem with those... the sun doesn't always shine bright, and then there are times with no wind at all... if both comes together the renewables break down in energy production. And we still don't have the capacity and technical knowledge of store huge amounts of energy really quick and long lasting.

 

 

Quick Edit because I forgot...

 

my last electrical bill said 25% of the costs are for electricity alone, 75% for taxes and net provider fees...

 

My issue with the green energy in Germany is they sell the carbon allowance on to poorer and industrial focused countries. So those countries have less reason to produce lower carbon energy and all the green energy does nothing for the environment because we’re still releasing the same amount of carbon 

[Anghammarad]

1 minute ago, Froody129 said:

My issue with the green energy in Germany is they sell the carbon allowance on to poorer and industrial focused countries. So those countries have less reason to produce lower carbon energy and all the green energy does nothing for the environment because we’re still releasing the same amount of carbon 

carbon is a current issue... the bigger one is all the atomic waste... that one looms above us ready to hit.

[Froody129]

8 minutes ago, Anghammarad said:

The problem here in germany... the electricity providers have slept too long on their infrastructure... like always in "big business" why keep things up to date when fixing is cheaper... 

 

So those cried out and our government decided to put several "taxes" onto electricity... the electricity providers say "lookie here we aren't that expensive it's taxes and whatnots", but those extra fees they receive.

 

And this because they were to profit driven and lazy to adapt their infrastructure over time...

 

Its a big "we the people get clusterfucked by government for the benefit of big business" over and over again...

 

On the "green energy" there are quite a lot of days were over 70% of the whole german electricity usage is generated by renewable energies. Wind and Solar... 

 

The problem with those... the sun doesn't always shine bright, and then there are times with no wind at all... if both comes together the renewables break down in energy production. And we still don't have the capacity and technical knowledge of store huge amounts of energy really quick and long lasting.

 

 

Quick Edit because I forgot...

 

my last electrical bill said 25% of the costs are for electricity alone, 75% for taxes and net provider fees...

 

My issue with the green energy in Germany is they sell the carbon allowance on to poorer and industrial focused countries. So those countries have less reason to produce lower carbon energy and all the green energy does nothing for the environment because we’re still releasing the same amount of carbon 

[WhatComesAround]

14 minutes ago, Anghammarad said:

The problem here in germany... the electricity providers have slept too long on their infrastructure... like always in "big business" why keep things up to date when fixing is cheaper... 

 

So those cried out and our government decided to put several "taxes" onto electricity... the electricity providers say "lookie here we aren't that expensive it's taxes and whatnots", but those extra fees they receive.

 

And this because they were to profit driven and lazy to adapt their infrastructure over time...

 

Its a big "we the people get clusterfucked by government for the benefit of big business" over and over again...

 

On the "green energy" there are quite a lot of days were over 70% of the whole german electricity usage is generated by renewable energies. Wind and Solar... 

 

The problem with those... the sun doesn't always shine bright, and then there are times with no wind at all... if both comes together the renewables break down in energy production. And we still don't have the capacity and technical knowledge of store huge amounts of energy really quick and long lasting.

 

 

Quick Edit because I forgot...

 

my last electrical bill said 25% of the costs are for electricity alone, 75% for taxes and net provider fees...

 

Well that's shit. I thought that 0.3 cents per kWh is WAY too high even for solar and wind. Are a lot of people switching to having their own solar array to power their home. Because the savings you could get from using your own power would be huge. I think in Germany however you would need a pretty big solar array to power your home 24/7 (EG. Daily usage is around 4KWh, you will need a 10kWh array and a big battery bank). But it sure would be worth it, would pay itself off in 1.5-2 years!

[WhatComesAround]

7 minutes ago, Froody129 said:

My issue with the green energy in Germany is they sell the carbon allowance on to poorer and industrial focused countries. So those countries have less reason to produce lower carbon energy and all the green energy does nothing for the environment because we’re still releasing the same amount of carbon 

In comparison, in the US the average time it takes to get ROI on solar systems is around 7 years if I am not mistaken but because in the US the cost of electricity is around 10 Cents. Thus 1/3 of how much you would save in Germany and 3 times the ROI period.

[Anghammarad]

Just now, WhatComesAround said:

Well that's shit. I thought that 0.3 cents per kWh is WAY too high even for solar and wind. Are a lot of people switching to having their own solar array to power their home. Because the savings you could get from using your own power would be huge. I think in Germany however you would need a pretty big solar array to power your home 24/7 (EG. Daily usage is around 4KWh, you will need a 10kWh array and a big battery bank). But it sure would be worth it, would pay itself off in 1.5-2 years!

I know from a friend of mine, he can't produce enough solar power for himself. He uses computers, TV, audio equip, his kitchen, washer/dryer... and last year it was quite bad... and he lives in a central part of germany. 

 

If thinking about solar power here in for example hamburg... it would be near 0 for the last 3 months due to having no sun and only clouds.

[Teddy07]

3 hours ago, WhatComesAround said:

So I will probably be going to study in Germany in half a year or so and I am mining cryptocurrency. From what I have heard it costs around USD 30 Cents per kWh in Germany, which is ridiculous, is this true?

 

I have read that the average German price for electricity is 0,28 € per kW/h. Keep in mind that 50% of your total energy bill is only taxes. It is fucking robbery but all these fucking lefties want green energy...

The best you can do is ~0,23 kW/h if you choose a cheap electricity company through an internet comparison website.

 

That is one reason why I can´t wait to leave this fucking country. Just ask if you have any questions regarding Germany

[WhatComesAround]

26 minutes ago, Anghammarad said:

I know from a friend of mine, he can't produce enough solar power for himself. He uses computers, TV, audio equip, his kitchen, washer/dryer... and last year it was quite bad... and he lives in a central part of germany. 

 

If thinking about solar power here in for example hamburg... it would be near 0 for the last 3 months due to having no sun and only clouds.

Yea, it would be hard. To live off of your own solar power you would need a large array. Say you use around 500W average, then you would probably need a system that can supply around 1500W, extra 500 for night, and the other extra 500 for headroom. And of course a battery bank to store that power. Investing in wind would also be good so if solar isn't available wind may be.

[WhatComesAround]

1 minute ago, Teddy07 said:

I have read that the average German price for electricity is 0,28 € per kW/h. Keep in mind that 50% of your total energy bill is only taxes. It is fucking robbery but all these fucking lefties want green energy...

The best you can do is ~0,23 kW/h if you choose a cheap electricity company through an internet comparison website.

 

That is one reason why I can´t wait to leave this fucking country. Just ask if you have any questions regarding Germany

Me: Wants to live in Germany

You: I can´t wait to leave this fucking country

Me: 

[Urishima]

13 minutes ago, Teddy07 said:

That is one reason why I can´t wait to leave this fucking country. Just ask if you have any questions regarding Germany

Switzerland? USA? Baltics? Where are you headed, mang?

[Teddy07]

1 hour ago, WhatComesAround said:

Me: Wants to live in Germany

You: I can´t wait to leave this fucking country

Me: 

wow. Where are you from? Many foreign students also want to live here so you are not alone.

 

I have my issues with Germany that´s why I literally have a countdown on my running PC

[Teddy07]

55 minutes ago, Urishima said:

Switzerland? USA? Baltics? Where are you headed, mang?

Not concrete plans yet. Switzerland would be a dream, but I am very flexible and open-minded. Basically where I get a great job opportunity.

 

I have to first finish my computer science degree which I just started. That will be a lot of work but I think I can do it with my dream in mind

[Tiberiusisgame]

Since no one is asking this... why are you bringing your crypto-mining rig to Germany with you while you study abroad? Leave it at home and bring a laptop for gaming, or swing by Saturn when you're there and grab some new gear. Oh how I miss that store. MicroCenter is a far cry from it.

[Anghammarad]

10 minutes ago, Tiberiusisgame said:

Since no one is asking this... why are you bringing your crypto-mining rig to Germany with you while you study abroad? Leave it at home and bring a laptop for gaming, or swing by Saturn when you're there and grab some new gear. Oh how I miss that store. MicroCenter is a far cry from it.

While I find saturn nice for some "hands on", their prices are mostly way too high.

[Tiberiusisgame]

Just now, Anghammarad said:

While I find saturn nice for some "hands on", their prices are mostly way too high.

Of course. So is MicroCenter's. But for the quick buy and the visual stimulation, it's the place to go. And the USD to Euro exchange rate is currently outstanding. Last time I was in Stutti, it was not.

[Urishima]

4 minutes ago, Anghammarad said:

While I find saturn nice for some "hands on", their prices are mostly way too high.

Depends. Some shit is way overpriced, some is actually competitive with online retailers. I am looking at GPUs right now. Depending on the model, if you factor in shipping costs, Saturn and Media Markt are not far behind. Most of the time you have to wait 2 or 3 days for them to ship it to a store near you, but you don't have to pay for that.

[WhatComesAround]

On 1/12/2018 at 10:00 PM, Teddy07 said:

wow. Where are you from? Many foreign students also want to live here so you are not alone.

 

I have my issues with Germany that´s why I literally have a countdown on my running PC

I am from Belarus, Poland, and the US. I am currently living in Malaysia though. One thing I can do is leave my pc running in Belarus as my grandparents live there and they would appreciate a free heater from me.  Also the cost of electricity is only 0.05 usd per kwh!! But.... no pc for me. I think what I will do is keep my 1050ti in my rig as a primary card in Germany while I leave all the other more power hungry cards in Belarus. That way I have both, a PC, and a profitable mine. Also I won't have to pay taxes on foreign income .