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Help picking mobo, cpu, ram, case-cooling to build-in-process

isoharmi

Hi!

 

I'm thinking this is the place for educated opinions on how to finish my build.

 

 

---TL;DR I really need opinions on atleast somewhat future-proof mobo, cpu, ram, cooling solutions, total budget of around 1300 eur, in the very end of text I have a possible 80eur option too (what?)---

 

 

My aim is in gaming, 1080p all Ultra everything, maxed, on 27" 60hz screen, Samsung T27C350, but budget allows for future-proofing for larger resolutions. I really think 60, heck even 40fps being enough for my eye. In 2009 I played GTA 4 with Fujitsu Amilo Pi 3560 on maybe medium settings, that must have been 15fps. It was friends that shook their heads who made me realize how crappy a gaming experience that really was. As years have passed by I have played similar games with around 25-45 fps on high settings. Now I strive for a bit smoother experience, finally... 

 

Also for daily internet-use I have another monitor on as well, 24" BenQ G2420HD, 60hz, but games of course run on the largest monitor alone in this case since monitors are of different size. I don't multitask while gaming, but when the game isn't on, I tend to use 2 monitors for internets, should still not be heavier PC usage than the games. Maybe late 2018 or 2019 would be the time to upgrade the gaming monitor to higher hertzs and 1-2ms response times, why not larger in size as well (so we're later looking at 1440p 120hz or something like that mayhaps?). 

 

Looks of this build are not important. I recently noticed I have gained interest on what kind of color- or otherwise themed builds people do and I really like to admire those but this one doesn't need to be like that. 

 

So yeah, I would play PUBG, GTAs, old, current and future racing games with racing wheel system (Logitech G27), occasionally Counter-strike, Cod and Battlefields, Far Cries, World of Tanks, maybe War Thunder. And of course we never know what they come up next to empty my wallet, but I am not much interested in VR -stuff at least for now.

 

 

I first list the parts I already have, I have been in a need to build a gaming pc for some time and when I saw some offers I couldn't keep me from starting to gather some parts already.

 

CaseFractal Design Define R5 BlackOut edition ATX, note that it already includes 2 of Fractal Design Dynamic GP14 fans, 1000 RPM speed. Maybe I'll just give a product page with all the info http://www.fractal-design.com/home/product/cases/define-series/define-r5-blackout-edition

 

PSUEVGA 750W SuperNOVA 750 G3. It is modular, 80 plus gold if we need that info. I don't mind if it is overcompensated now, it means more silent performance and futureproofing right? Anyway I already have it.

 

SSDSamsung 1TB 850 EVO SSD, 2.5", SATA III, 540/520 MB/s. I already have os (Windows 10 Home 64-bit, deactivated hibernate and superfertch) and some games in it. Anyway I try to use half of the space max, I read somewhere using more than half would affect something, performance maybe, or durability? I bought a used PC from a friend, AMD 955 with a huge Coolink cooler, GTX 680 GPU, 12GB DDR3 ram, 550w psu to give a quick idea of that PC. I just really needed to be able to somehow play the PUBG already. Bought it without any hard drive so began this build with a SSD. By the way the cooler on the 955 looks very much like the Corador DS LGA2011 from the picture in this page http://www.coolink-europe.com/en/categories/15.html but the mobo in that build is Asus M4A88TD-V Evo/USB3 (AM3) so idk. Before I burned the paste with AMD overdrive autoclock (lesson learned, now teach me how to oc in bios lol) It was very quiet when idle, and earlier owner was able to oc the 955 to 4ghz with it.

 

HDDWestern Digital 4TB Red Pro, 3.5" internal hard drive, SATA III, 7200rpm, 128MB buffer size. The GTA IV is there now. GTA V is in the SSD. But we wouldn't want to forget Niko, right?

 

Optical driveBuffalo DVSM-PT58U2VB, DVD-burner, USB 2.0, because my current gaming PC doesn't have one in the case. It's literally on the case now.

 

GPU: Gigabyte GTX 1080 Windforce OC 8G. I was checking on some 1070 /1070 Ti:s when I came across this for the price of 579eur (I live in Finland, so prices are a bit higher than elsewhere I think. It's the distances...), did a quick research and came to understanding that it's made of durable quality materials, keeps itself rather silent and cool, so here I am now waiting for it to arrive in the mail. 

CPU coolerFractal Design Celsius S24 AIO watercooling. Actually it is my first dip in the watercooling ocean (puns, lol). I really didn't know what I was doing, other than compatibility seems fine with about anything available today. Hope I am not wrong. Instructive opinions are welcome! Here's a product page http://www.fractal-design.com/home/product/water-cooling/celsius-s24 If that would be a wrong select for now, I can play around with it with the 955 or fx-8350 I guess!

 

I have a cheap Deltaco USB mechanical keyboard (box says PS/2 as well but it only had the usb so there is something I don't understand or I have been fooled), a Logitech G602 mouse and Logitech G633 headset I am happy with for now. Logitech Z230 speakers for the media win! :D

 

 

 

So yeah, the CPU world is shaken about the Meltdown and Spectre news, so It makes the decision of CPU hard for me now. Before the news I was thinking of 8th gen i7, but I don't know if I should go with a Ryzen that has no compatibility issues with GTA V, would a R7 be the answer for my needs? (Was it so that R5:s had the issues with GTA V?) I'm not a fanboy of either brand, just worried because it is still large investment for me. I am not thinking of overclocking it myself very soon, but still I would go for an unlocked cpu because I can play around with it later on when I have the confidence (and a even newer cpu again maybe :D )  

 

If I understand right, it is only after we've decided on a cpu, that we can look for the motherboard, right? I understand I should look for some mhz speeds but I am not really familiar with motherboard differences yet. I'm thinking that since a ATX-sized fits in the case, it would be good for future-proofing for a possible large GPU in the future, and easier assembly overall, am I on the right tracks?

 

And then the RAM. What mhz would suffice my gaming needs, and do people future-proof with RAM-speeds as well, 3000mhz, 3200, or are they money-waste? If I pick a ram with high requency, would there be compatibility issues with mobo or something, or does it work as future-proofing? I mean with a mobo that works with some DDR4 anyway. I guess SO-DIMM means laptop ram, so i should not look for that right? Final RAM GB amount depends on how long I gather these parts before it's complete :D (or is ever complete, like a project car that's never finished) but 16GB at least to begin with I guess.   - Edit,I asked about ECC, I will go with non-ECC ram.

 

And then I am worried of how to carry out the case cooling. Maybe I just need good links to posts or videos on that topic. Surely if there are some spesific fans you recommend, tell me! 

 

I mentioned that the budget would be around 1300eur. That's because I'm thinking if I would suffice with around 800e for these missing parts, but still PC is so important to me that I want a smooth game- and daily use -experience for a long time. So I am ready to throw in some more, heck, up to 1500eur to be sure nothing would not bottleneck right away. Still it sounds unreal now that I thought I would save when building the PC compared to completes, but now I see I have already used around 1500e, that would of course be less with smaller hard drives but anyway... But wait, there's more! And 80 eur solution? Read below...

 

So what would you think about AMD FX-8350 and 16gb of 1600mhz ddr3-ram as a solution enough of 1080p gaming with the GTX 1080? I happened to promise a friend that I would buy that setup (with a mobo, he doesn't remember what it was but compatible to those anyway, he had a GTX 970 there so 1080 probably suits techno-wise?). Maybe not so future-proof but should I just for current needs try with that and the parts I listed? If not, I don't mind having those as extra parts, it starts to look like in the end I end up with 3 PC:s. The up-to-date PC, a secondary one and one for my parents maybe. I am writing this on HP HPE-345sc https://support.hp.com/hk-en/document/c02499918 but with 750w Corsair PSU, Corsair Force 3 SSD, AMD 7870 Club3d, Royal Queen if I remember correctly (able to throw a GTX 660 there instead, or maybe put that to be a PhysX-card to the AMD 955 machine, along with the Corsair 750w, dunno, I don't have a SLI-link. But I like the idea of playing around with these older PC:s).

 

 

If you really read all of this, you are a champion! Now I have like a hundred questions there, feel free to help with the ones you can and like to.

 

Cheers

 

 

Edited by isoharmi
Edited because some questions were answered, told that in the edits to reader.
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Dont get ECC ram, get either a ryzen 1600 or 1400 depending on budget, with this get a b350/x370 chipset board, and also some ~3000Mhz ram

Omega-  I5 6600k | Gigabyte GTX 1060 | Cougar Panzer | DDR4 16GB 3000MHz | MSI Z170 Gaming M5

               EVGA 650 GQ | AOC 60Hz Freesync Panels x2 | AOC 144hz Freesync Panel x1

Epsilon- I7 2700k | Asus GTX 970 | Corsair 780t | DDR3 8GB 1600MHz | EVGA Z68 FTW Mobo

               Corsair 750W G2 | Acer R240HY x2

Upsilon- i7 5500u | 6GB DDR3 | 720p 60Hz panel

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I doubt theres any ECC ram mobos for ryzen, and if there were it wouldnt be very useful.

Dont get the FX platform, its dead. 

For your budget get either 1600 or 8400, I would go for 8400 for its gaming performance but ryzen is said to have a lot of support* and its cores can help with other tasks

 

 

 

 

*AMD also said this about AM3 and look where we are now...

Ion (Main Build)                                                                                        Overall Setup

i5 6500 3.2 GHz                                                                     -Blue snowball (White) thanks goodwill

MSI Mortar Arctic                                                                   -Logitech K120

Asus 1060 6GB Dual                                                             -Logitech Daedalus Prime G302

PNY CS1311 120 GB                                                            -Mousepad I made in 1st grade with my name on it                                                 

WD Caviar Blue 1 TB                                                              

Crucial Ballistix Sport LT White 16GB (8x2GB) 2400

NZXT S340 White

Corsair CXM 450W 

 

Lenovo H320 (Old Pre-built PC)                                      Possible upgrade for H320          

i5 650 3.2 GHz (heh)                                                                                    Xeon X3470

Motherboard unknown                                                       Same Motherboard

iGPU                                                                                   GT 1030 (MSI Low Profile Half Height)

Crucial 240GB SSD                                                           Crucial 240GB SSD

6GB DDR3 (4+2GB)                                                           8-10GB DDR3 (4+2+2GB/4+4+2GB)

Lenovo H320 case                                                             Lenovo H320 case

Unknown PSU (210W?)                                                     Same PSU (210W?)    

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PSU: You should check this PSU Tier List out just for additional info (Your PSU is a Tier 1 - good choice).

Case Cooling: Check out this list of fans. (Navigate sizes at the bottom) Prices may be a bit outdated, but the rest of the info is fine.

As far as fans go, Here's my general comment:

Quote

For minimum noise and alright airflow (list in order from highest airflow to lowest):

 

Fractal Design - X2 GP-14 (White) 68.4 CFM @18.9 dBa

NoiseBlocker - NB-eLoop B14-2 64.3 CFM @ 16.9 dBa

be quiet! - SilentWings 3 pwm 59.5 CFM @ 15.5 dBa

Noctua - NF-P14s redux-900 49.3 CFM @ 13.2 dBa

NoiseBlocker - NB-BlackSilentFan XK-1 35.3 CFM @ 13dBa

I haven't used the FD's fan, so I'm hesitant to put it on (but the info about it says I should).

All of them are great - it's basically how much airflow you want and which one you like the look of the best.

1

From: Quiet PWM Fan Options

 

As for the FX-8350 - even though it looks good on paper, the Bulldozer architecture is a bit outdated and the IPC (or something like that) is slower - so the clock speed, although high, doesn't give as much performance. A good reference is CPUBenchmark. It has some biases but is still able to compare gaming chips against each other. Additionally, I'd recommend creating a post here for more insight. (Note: the 8350 is a higher wattage chip - Up to 360 watts under load - and will also need better cooling)

 

CPU Scores from CPUBench:

8350 score: 8946

1600x score: 13315

 

I'll be making more comments and trying to answer more questions to come - but it may take a couple of minutes so I want to get this out.

Fan Comparisons          F@H          PCPartPicker         Analysis of Market Trends (Coming soon? Never? Who knows!)

Designing a mITX case. Working on aluminum prototypes.

Open for intern / part-time. Good at maths, CAD and airflow stuff. Dabbled with Python.

Please fill out this form! It helps a ton! https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/841400-the-poll-to-end-all-polls-poll/

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You've stated that you have bought the Define R5. It comes with 2 of FD's 140mm GP14s. I'd class them as above average fans. Perhaps I'd add another 140mm fan from the post I included earlier and place it as another intake on the front (Sticker facing inside). This should help dust from getting inside. (See LTT's Year Trial)

 

As for CPU - rereading what you've said about overclocking- I'd go for 1600X (comes with base overclock) or some 7/8 gen Intel. Intel has claimed that the issues will be resolved in a future update (whether it's effective - that's to come).

 

For CPU Cooler, the S24 should cool most CPUs fine. I've really not heard anything (good or bad) regarding it, but FD's track record makes me think that it'll be a good product.

 

For RAM, Unless you're running some weird setup and doing some server-grade computing, I think ECC would be a waste of money. (You'd also limit yourself in the future because of ECC motherboards (From what I understand). RAM prices are pretty bad right now - If you can, I'd buy used. I'd say that RAM is the part least likely to fail if bought used, but if you don't want to go that route, it'll be alright.

 

If you go with Ryzen, is a bit picky about RAM type and frequency - it'll run better on high-frequency RAM. Just do a bit of research and look at CAS latency and you'll be fine.

 

Final thing: If you haven't found PCPartPicker, I'll link it here. It's a very useful website to compile costs (sadly not for Finland - I changed the location to Germany in the top right of the page) and also other information regarding compatibility, ratings, and other information of parts.

 

If you have any questions -quote or mention me by using @(Username) to give me a notification so I'll see it.

Fan Comparisons          F@H          PCPartPicker         Analysis of Market Trends (Coming soon? Never? Who knows!)

Designing a mITX case. Working on aluminum prototypes.

Open for intern / part-time. Good at maths, CAD and airflow stuff. Dabbled with Python.

Please fill out this form! It helps a ton! https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/841400-the-poll-to-end-all-polls-poll/

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Thanks for the answers already! You have been quicker to help than I even thought. 

 

Some nice choises and arguments for them there. And I already learnt to avoid the letters ECC with RAM :D And also to not play around with the old fx-8350 with this main PC build.

 

Some solid links you gave there for me to study. 

 

As a small thank you I filled the poll on Imbellis' signature :P 

 

-edit, yeah, the @ : s 

 

@21rkosta @QuantumBit @Imbellis

 

 

 

Cheers!

Edited by isoharmi
@ : s
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48 minutes ago, isoharmi said:

Thanks for the answers already! You have been quicker to help than I even thought. 

 

Some nice choises and arguments for them there. And I already learnt to avoid the letters ECC with RAM :D And also to not play around with the old fx-8350 with this main PC build.

 

Some solid links you gave there for me to study. 

 

As a thank you I filled the poll on Imbellis' signature :P 

 

Cheers!

be sure to quote people or else we wont see you :)

 

Glad you enjoyed the advice!

 

Also welcome to the forums :)  

Ion (Main Build)                                                                                        Overall Setup

i5 6500 3.2 GHz                                                                     -Blue snowball (White) thanks goodwill

MSI Mortar Arctic                                                                   -Logitech K120

Asus 1060 6GB Dual                                                             -Logitech Daedalus Prime G302

PNY CS1311 120 GB                                                            -Mousepad I made in 1st grade with my name on it                                                 

WD Caviar Blue 1 TB                                                              

Crucial Ballistix Sport LT White 16GB (8x2GB) 2400

NZXT S340 White

Corsair CXM 450W 

 

Lenovo H320 (Old Pre-built PC)                                      Possible upgrade for H320          

i5 650 3.2 GHz (heh)                                                                                    Xeon X3470

Motherboard unknown                                                       Same Motherboard

iGPU                                                                                   GT 1030 (MSI Low Profile Half Height)

Crucial 240GB SSD                                                           Crucial 240GB SSD

6GB DDR3 (4+2GB)                                                           8-10GB DDR3 (4+2+2GB/4+4+2GB)

Lenovo H320 case                                                             Lenovo H320 case

Unknown PSU (210W?)                                                     Same PSU (210W?)    

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8 hours ago, Imbellis said:

Perhaps I'd add another 140mm fan from the post I included earlier and place it as another intake on the front (Sticker facing inside). This should help dust from getting inside.

Hey, about that! Is this the answer to my wondering which way to place fans. So the air flows from the surroundings to the case when the sticker in the round area in the middle of fan blades faces inside? And the other way around when I install it the sticker facing out of the case right? And that would be universal?

 

Cheers!

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Think so!

 

Ion (Main Build)                                                                                        Overall Setup

i5 6500 3.2 GHz                                                                     -Blue snowball (White) thanks goodwill

MSI Mortar Arctic                                                                   -Logitech K120

Asus 1060 6GB Dual                                                             -Logitech Daedalus Prime G302

PNY CS1311 120 GB                                                            -Mousepad I made in 1st grade with my name on it                                                 

WD Caviar Blue 1 TB                                                              

Crucial Ballistix Sport LT White 16GB (8x2GB) 2400

NZXT S340 White

Corsair CXM 450W 

 

Lenovo H320 (Old Pre-built PC)                                      Possible upgrade for H320          

i5 650 3.2 GHz (heh)                                                                                    Xeon X3470

Motherboard unknown                                                       Same Motherboard

iGPU                                                                                   GT 1030 (MSI Low Profile Half Height)

Crucial 240GB SSD                                                           Crucial 240GB SSD

6GB DDR3 (4+2GB)                                                           8-10GB DDR3 (4+2+2GB/4+4+2GB)

Lenovo H320 case                                                             Lenovo H320 case

Unknown PSU (210W?)                                                     Same PSU (210W?)    

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4 hours ago, isoharmi said:

Hey, about that! Is this the answer to my wondering which way to place fans. So the air flows from the surroundings to the case when the sticker in the round area in the middle of fan blades faces inside? And the other way around when I install it the sticker facing out of the case right? And that would be universal?

 

Cheers!

 

Generally, the sticker is on the side that air is pushed to. It's not quite universal, but most fans follow it.

Fan Comparisons          F@H          PCPartPicker         Analysis of Market Trends (Coming soon? Never? Who knows!)

Designing a mITX case. Working on aluminum prototypes.

Open for intern / part-time. Good at maths, CAD and airflow stuff. Dabbled with Python.

Please fill out this form! It helps a ton! https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/841400-the-poll-to-end-all-polls-poll/

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  • 2 months later...

An update! Wohoo :D

 

TL;DR This is basically a "dear diary" type of update. I have this build now close to completion. If a PC is ever complete. I have even more used parts now.

 

Finally one day when I was in a fever-like flu having sick leave from work, I decided "I just start tinkering" with the mobo and fx-8350 a bit. Oh yeah, like I promised my friend, I bought those. He forgot to keep the rams and sold them separately, so I got an Asus M5 A97 R2.0 motherboard with the AMD fx-8350 in it for 50 eur. The thing I thought I was going to do that day was prepare the setup to install maybe later all the components.

 

So it was the first time I cleaned some the old thermal paste from the cpu. I had 50% IPA (for car cleaning purposes, btw be careful if you use it for cars, there are solutions that are more safe for the paint and clearcoat, e.g. Bilt Hamber cleanser fluid). Oh yeah sorry I like to detail cars :D

 

Then I thought do I want to play PC that night or tinker with the new build more, and I chose to tinker, and started to take parts out of the "temporary" PC so to say. And the rams I put in were from ANOTHER used PC I bought. I consider that as a bargain. Nice Asus sound-dampening case, i5-4570 (or 4670 I forgot already) with stock cooler, 250gb SSD (not the fastest but still), 1tb HDD (WD blue or the Seagate Barracuda, forgot that too), Win10 ( I need to carefully check was it an upgrade from Win8, and if I can just reinstall and activate it succesfully someday, but now it works with the sellers password :D )  a GTX 760, very compact gpu which is good, I might need that for one setup later. And more Volvo! Sorry, Fractal, a 650watt psu! An optic drive I might some day move to this main build. And 2 of 8Gb sticks of Kingston HyperX Beast 1600mhz ddr3 rams which I now used. I also got a 23,8" Asus screen (not yet sure if 1 or 5ms), Logitech G105 keyboard, Steelseries CS:GO mouse and gaming mousepad, and Steelseries headset. This whole package for 450 eur.

 

Why I didn't make that my gaming PC? Just replace the 760 with 1080? Well the motherboard's audio interface is in the way... It has some B350, i think it is mATX mobo. 

 

So back to the build. I started reading the manuals of the case and cpu cooler and I really would like to make a joke about it because they are both Volv...Fractal Design, swedish like IKEA with its well-known manuals :D I thought I screwed up that part that I feared the most, installing the cooler to cpu. That was a part where I really first misunderstood the manual. Then I realized what was wrong and was able to install the cooler. The temperatures seem fine idle and under load so I guess it went well. (CPU 15 celsius idle, 50 in PUBG all ultra-everything, GPU about 40-60 idle-PUBG), and the fx-8350 is considered as a hot CPU so I think there is room to clock, a strong recommendation to the S24 AIO-watercooler from me! 

 

I put the S24 up-rear, fans suck air from below and push it though the radiator (connection to the cpu-fan in mobo, using the auto-mode of S24). There is the GP-14 fan pushing air through the rear (connection to mobo's cha-fan, auto). In the front there is actually one GP-14 and one X2 GP-14 (a newer very similar), those suck cold air into the case. Upper one controlled by mobo, lower one that is next to HDD's controlled by the case (3 settings). On the bottom rear the psu sucks cold air in from under it, and next to it I have a SilentiumPC Zephyr 140 sucking cold air too from under the case (controlled by case too). That I installed because the Gigabyte 1080 GTX is a little funny, it draws cold air from under it with 3 fans, and pushes for air directly towards the mobo and the case wall. There hasn't been any temperature problems but considering that and the fact that the cpu gets so cold I think it's good to make sure there is airflow and also no water condensation.

 

I haven't yet completed my cable management and put the walls back in to the case. So temperatures may rise but I think they stay good enough. 

 

There was a problem with the rams in the beginning, they were running 1033mhz (really, it was something 566 and I know I have to double it). This bios didn't let me change the mhz even though it let me change a lot of other stuff about rams. After some time having the cpu in standard 4.0ghz mode I clicked the performance mode on that made it run around 4,3ghz. Then yesterday I found this D.O.C.P selection and enabled it, the cpu is now at 4.1ghz but ram runs on 1600mhz! And boy did that make a difference. PUBG really runs well all-ultra-everything and even the scaling maxed (120, I think it means 120%). Without Vsync it runs around 70-80fps, and I don't need Vsync but I choose to have it, so a very steady 60fps, drops are rare.

 

So at this point there is cable management to do and putting the walls on then. And actually before that I need to find out how to plug in the reset button. I was lucky to have the power right the first try :D It really worked the very first boot! I am not sure about the HDD led and there was one other as well, and I thing a power led pin just has to be unplugged to this mobo :( maybe I install the DVD-drive to this, it would not be in the way of any fan. And with the walls on I think I need to read and study and carefully try to overclock the cpu and ram. (I read that this ram can be clocked to 1866mhz as well). But before any overclock I think I test this with more games, since with PUBG I really do not even need any overclocking! I am so happy with this build now! There are videos on Youtube about the fx-8350 and they are kind of 50/50 with opinions is it an outdated cpu or still capable. To me it seems capable enough for now!

 

I think I am able to save and buy a good pressure washer and machine polisher next and only after that a new mobo and cpu :D I'm thinking of waiting until they release a new generation with included fix to Spectre and Meltdown. Surely I also have the i5-4something now, so maybe one more used mobo and that might help me even further later on :DStill, I have learned to like this tinkering and am happy with all the parts to tinker with now. So even that 450 eur I consider money well spent, even though there are wiser ways to get just one good gaming PC.

 

-edit, the minimum idle temp I saw was 10, but 15 is more average. More thorough detail about fans.

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Hi again!

HWiNFO gives this kind of information, I played PUBG maxed, had some Chrome tabs open and discord call for the time it gathered info.

 

After GPU, the highest temp is what is interesting to me. It's under mobo but it says cpu. Still cpu has temps shown in its own slots. The GPU pushes hot air towards the mobo, and it feels hot. Are those temps okay? (Still the case is open, no walls attached. The two fans that are controlled by case were in the middle setting.)

temps.jpg

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