Apple apologizes over battery fisasco, will offer $29 battery replacements for 1 year

[Valentyn]

Just now, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Yeah, it's safer to just take it to Apple, especially with the discount. 

 

But my point was that iPhones aren't that hard to repair. If anything, it's pretty straightforward... 

That's very true.

Hardest part is the water resistant seal really for DIY job; other than that you'll have very little issue. Especially following iFixit's guides.

[D13H4RD]

Anyway, I really feel that the time is beyond ripe for better batteries. 

 

I've personally been absolutely fucked over by terrible batteries, with my HTC One M7 dying with still decent amounts of charge remaining in critical situations, and my old Moto doing the same. 

 

With the Note8 permanently dying at 0% and this, new battery tech needs to come. 

[DrMacintosh]

11 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

It wasn't until the 2017 MBP that Apple restricted older OSes at a firmware level and that's a fact.

Every Mac to date cannot install an Oproating System older than itself. I know this because I’ve been working on Macs also. 

 

You can can only go forward from date of manufacture. Now you can downgrade any existing machine to an OS as long as the machine is old enough to have been updated to that OS before. 

 

Ex. 2011 iMac shipped with Mountain Lion so it can run anything between High Sierra and Mountain Lion and can go back or forward whenever it wants. However a 2011 iMac cannot boot and install Snow Leopard because that OS is too old for it. 

 

11 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Except the Mac Book Pro 2017 where Apple changed the kext file for the TB controller and restricted what devices would work with the machine, again another fact.

I’m just saying what I know and I know that Thunderbolt 2 devices work on Thunderbolt 3 devices as long as they are adapted out. 

 

11 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Please explain why you think I need to know about Apple's policies to form an opinion of Apple's actions.

Because if you don’t you have no actual knowledge on the topic. If you don’t know why someone did something what you think of the result meaningless. Without context you have nothing and since you refuse to get the context your opinion means nothing. 

 

You are denying ting yourself information. 

[Valentyn]

3 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Anyway, I really feel that the time is beyond ripe for better batteries. 

 

I've personally been absolutely fucked over by terrible batteries, with my HTC One M7 dying with still decent amounts of charge remaining in critical situations, and my old Moto doing the same. 

 

With the Note8 permanently dying at 0% and this, new battery tech needs to come. 

There is the tech, can handle over 2000 cycles on a good amount; issue is cost and size. In a world where people love thin phones, and decent prices; cutting edge battery tech costs a small bomb.

My One Plus One was also a mess with it's battery; lasting less overall than my iPhone 4s after both reached 2 years old.

 

Personally I'd take a thicker phone with a top of the range battery over current thin phones; where the battery lasts 2-3 years with decent use.

4-5 years average use sounds good to me; but then the phone will be slow and outdated due to hardware not able to keep up with software; before the battery has issues.

Then again my iPad 2 reached the latter stage; slow because of lack of RAM, and applications demanding too much from the hardware; as opposed to battery issues.

[Master Disaster]

19 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Wow these comments. I lost faith in humanity.

 

-Batteries wear down

-CPUs require minimum voltage

 

Those are facts. People arguing against it are just idiots. Either throttle it (iphone) to prevent shutdown or allow full load (nexus 6P) and the phone has a chance of shutting off. Choose an option, this is not a Apple just fix it or prevent it. Jesus christ people......

How many Android phones exactly do you hear about shutting down after 2 years? This is an Apple problem.

 

15 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Everyone keeps saying iPhones are hard to repair. 

 

Yeah, about that..... 

 

Try cracking open one of the newer Android flagships. My old Moto Z is an absolute bitch to take apart, and the same thing for my Note8 where lots of heat and prying tools are needed. 

 

The iPhone 6s/7? Literally 2 (pentalope) screws and a freaking suction cup...... 

 

Yes, they're harder than a user replaceable battery but as sealed batteries go, this one is simple. 

Repair isn't about disassembly.

[D13H4RD]

5 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Repair isn't about disassembly.

Except that for phones, to repair them, you have to disassemble them and this is especially true for sealed phones. 

[mynameisjuan]

10 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

How many Android phones exactly do you hear about shutting down after 2 years? This is an Apple problem.

Ummm....a lot. Dude do a simple google search. There was a lawsuit with the Nexus 6P over it. 

[D13H4RD]

8 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

How many Android phones exactly do you hear about shutting down after 2 years? This is an Apple problem.

This isn't just an Apple problem. This is also a lithium battery problem. 

 

The Nexus 6P was notorious for this. My Moto Z and a Moto X 2015 from a friend also experienced battery issues after a year. My HTC One M7 did the same and so did a Galaxy S3. Should I mention that the Note8 now has an issue where it permanently dies at 0%? 

 

Dude, they all use lithium batteries. The tech hasn't even changed much in years. They will all degrade over time, some less than others due to different power management or capacity. I could say that Apple either pushed them too hard or used crappy batteries, both of which could be true. 

[helloman1556]

19 hours ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Personally, I think it's simply Apple's way of making their devices last longer and be more reliable than other devices. I know there are people that don't want their phones slowing down over time(I mean, who does?), but it's a much better alternative compared to your phone shutting off entirely, particularly since we generally need our phones to be, well.....PHONES. If there's an emergency, having our phones shut off in the middle of an important phone call is terrible, and Apple's method is best for dealing with battery degradation. 

But it seems as though their batteries are degrading faster than most other phone manufacturers? After having a OnePlus 3T for a year, my battery life and performance haven't changed significantly and especially not to the point of spontaneous shutdowns. Maybe is Apple pushing their components to the limit for the first year which accelerates battery degradation and then throttling once no one cares about the performance numbers anymore? And there's no way a company that spends so much on R&D doesn't know the capabilities of their batteries with the components in the device. They could easily prevent this issue by running the CPU at a frequency that doesn't cause your battery to fry to extend the longevity of the device.

[Master Disaster]

2 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

This isn't just an Apple problem. This is also a lithium battery problem. 

 

The Nexus 6P was notorious for this. My Moto Z and a Moto X 2015 from a friend also experienced battery issues after a year. My HTC One M7 did the same and so did a Galaxy S3. Should I mention that the Note8 now has an issue where it permanently dies at 0%? 

 

Dude, they all use lithium batteries. The tech hasn't even changed much in years. They will all degrade over time, some less than others due to different power management or capacity. I could say that Apple either pushed them too hard or used crappy batteries, both of which could be true. 

You ignored the question entirely.

 

Batteries degrading happens to every phone, no one is debating that but the question was, how many Android phones have shut down issues when the batteries start to degrade?

[Master Disaster]

2 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

Ummm....a lot. Dude do a simple google search. There was a lawsuit with the Nexus 6P over it. 

No, the 6P had an entirely different issue. In that case faulty batteries were failing after around a year, the device would shut down and refuse to power back on at all.

 

That was a literal failure where as Apple as saying they have to throttle because the battery cannot provide enough continuous power to the device.

[Valentyn]

3 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

No, the 6P had an entirely different issue. In that case faulty batteries were failing after around a year, the device would shut down and refuse to power back on at all.

 

That was a literal failure where as Apple as saying they have to throttle because the battery cannot provide enough continuous power to the device.

Did you even read anything on the topic? The Apple Devices were also shutting down randomly and refusing the power on in many cases due to the degraded and consumed batteries. Apple then provided an update that prevented the shutdown by lowering the performance.

It even gives a warning the battery section stating the battery needs to be serviced; as in both cases replacing the battery would resolve the issue. The difference is, with the update; the phone would at least function and work. Phones are phone firstly after all; and a dead phone does no one any good.

[leadeater]

6 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

The size of the battery makes a difference. Plus the iPhone battery supposedly has a much higher resistance, which allows them to get a much higher density, but also causes them to deteriorate faster. (I can't remember if I read that from someone here who sounded like they knew what they were talking about or some article.)

 

But, FWIW, I didn't notice any major degredation with my 15" MBP battery until I was close to 1500-2000 cycles, and at 2300 cycles I've only lost 30% capacity. 

Kind of not really a thing for Lithium Ion batteries.

 

Quote

Li-ion manufacturers seldom specify the rise of internal resistance and self-discharge as a function of cycling. Advancements have been made with electrolyte additives that keep the resistance low through most of the battery life. The self-discharge of Li-ion is normally low but it can increase if misused or if exposed to deep discharges.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/battery_performance_as_a_function_of_cycling

 

If you want to find out more information about different battery designs have a read of this, when reading it keep in mind mobile device batteries are the Power Cell design and laptop batteries are the Energy Store design. The difference is more a necessity due to the lower terminal voltage used in mobile phones to support things like USB charging.

 

Quote

Batteries can be made to perform as an Energy Cell that stores a large amount of energy, or a Power Cell that is capable to deliver high load currents. An analogy is a water flask that is designed to hold a large volume of liquid while offering a wide opening to permit quick pouring.

 

Quote

It should be noted that loading a battery to its full power capability increases stress and shortens life. When a high current draw is needed continuously, the battery pack should be made larger. Tesla does this with their Model S cars by doubling and tripling the battery. An analogy is a heavy truck fitted with a large diesel engine that provides long and durable service as opposed to installing a souped-up engine of sports car with similar horsepower.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/bu_206a_finding_the_optimal_runtime_and_power_ratio_of_li_ion

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

Batteries degrading happens to every phone, no one is debating that but the question was, how many Android phones have shut down issues when the batteries start to degrade?

I personally know of an S3 and an S4 that did it all the time, would start to shut off at around 30%-50% battery charge if you stressed the device too much by loading even basic apps or making an actual phone call. Replacing the battery fixed it.

[mr moose]

4 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

This isn't just an Apple problem. This is also a lithium battery problem. 

 

The Nexus 6P was notorious for this. My Moto Z and a Moto X 2015 from a friend also experienced battery issues after a year. My HTC One M7 did the same and so did a Galaxy S3. Should I mention that the Note8 now has an issue where it permanently dies at 0%? 

 

Dude, they all use lithium batteries. The tech hasn't even changed much in years. They will all degrade over time, some less than others due to different power management or capacity. I could say that Apple either pushed them too hard or used crappy batteries, both of which could be true. 

 

It's not really battery problem either. It's a design problem.  The battery was just too small for the phone.  I don't know where anyone gets the idea that it's an apple specific problem that's just crazy.  But it's like a fuel tank in a car, if you have a small tank you have to fill it more often, the issue is with lithium though full cycles and more of them reduces its life.

 

 

[Sauron]

(un)Surprisingly they only started caring when the lawsuits happened.

[D13H4RD]

8 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

You ignored the question entirely.

 

Batteries degrading happens to every phone, no one is debating that but the question was, how many Android phones have shut down issues when the batteries start to degrade?

All of them, so as long as they use lithium batteries. 

 

When they start to experience it depends. Some experience it after a year while others experience it after 2 years 

[Dabombinable]

2 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

All of them, so as long as they use lithium batteries. 

 

When they start to experience it depends. Some experience it after a year while others experience it after 2 years 

The shutdowns aren't due to the batteries voltage not being high enough though.....which is another example as to Apple needed to use batteries better suited to chips that require large and frequent burst of power.

[Scyl]

3 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

The shutdowns aren't due to the batteries voltage not being high enough though.....which is another example as to Apple needed to use batteries better suited to chips that require large and frequent burst of power.

It is,

 

"A chemically aged battery also becomes less capable of delivering peak energy loads, especially in a low state of charge, which may result in a device unexpectedly shutting itself down in some situations." Source

 

[leadeater]

31 minutes ago, Scyl said:

It is,

 

"A chemically aged battery also becomes less capable of delivering peak energy loads, especially in a low state of charge, which may result in a device unexpectedly shutting itself down in some situations." Source

 

A 1 year old battery is not chemically aged, even accounting in shelf life before sale of the device it's not old enough. Apple is stretching a bit far with that, it's not incorrect information but lets not all start thinking 1 year old batteries are chemically aged beyond use because that isn't true.

[D13H4RD]

36 minutes ago, leadeater said:

A 1 year old battery is not chemically aged, even accounting in shelf life before sale of the device it's not old enough. Apple is stretching a bit far with that, it's not incorrect information but lets not all start thinking 1 year old batteries are chemically aged beyond use because that isn't true.

It really depends on factors. 

 

A smaller battery that's exposed to more extreme usage and temperature will definitely show signs of aging much more readily

[leadeater]

5 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

It really depends on factors. 

 

A smaller battery that's exposed to more extreme usage and temperature will definitely show signs of aging much more readily

True but that isn't really what's meant by 'chemically aged'. I mean I can damage the battery on it's first charge by putting 20V through it but that doesn't make it chemically aged, or charge it in a oven.

 

Edit:

Also even with those factors a battery should last a full year before starting to lose capacity and degrading.

 

Quote

Although a battery should deliver 100 percent capacity during the first year of service, it is common to see lower than specified capacities, and shelf life may contribute to this loss. In addition, manufacturers tend to overrate their batteries, knowing that very few users will do spot-checks and complain if low. Not having to match single cells in mobile phones and tablets, as is required in multi-cell packs, opens the floodgates for a much broader performance acceptance. Cells with lower capacities may slip through cracks without the consumer knowing. 

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

 

The main reason a battery would start to degrade sooner than a year mark without overly harsh factors, which should be partially accounted for in some way by the manufacture, is an undersized battery for the use case. Too smaller battery leads to depth of discharge being high and frequent which is really bad, optimally if you want your battery in your phone to last don't let it get below 30%-40% charge and stop charging at 90%, doing that will make it last years longer however this is impossible if the battery is too small.

[D13H4RD]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

True but that isn't really what's meant by 'chemically aged'. I mean I can damage the battery on it's first charge by putting 20V through it but that doesn't make it chemically aged, or charge it in a oven.

 

Edit:

Also even with those factors a battery should last a full year before starting to lose capacity and degrading.

 

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

 

The main reason a battery would start to degrade sooner than a year mark without overly harsh factors, which should be partially accounted for in some way by the manufacture, is an undersized battery for the use case. Too smaller battery leads to depth of discharge being high and frequent which is really bad, optimally if you want your battery in your phone to last don't let it get below 30%-40% charge and stop charging at 90%, doing that will make it last years longer however this is impossible if the battery is too small.

That's probably why my Moto Z 's battery experienced degradation before its first birthday. 

 

Didn't really help that it kept overheating too. 

[mynameisjuan]

23 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

No, the 6P had an entirely different issue. In that case faulty batteries were failing after around a year, the device would shut down and refuse to power back on at all.

 

That was a literal failure where as Apple as saying they have to throttle because the battery cannot provide enough continuous power to the device.

No its wasnt faulty batteries, The battery just lost life so much they would hit a voltage limit shutting it down. Trust me, I was one of them. Do you even understand that CPUs require a minimum voltage to operate properly? 

 

Also this doesnt just apply to the 6P, older android phones shut down early too. No voltage, no worky. Throttle to prevent that is not a bad idea. Lying that it doesnt throttle is though. 

[pyrojoe34]

So what about my 5s? They destroy its functionality with IOS11 but it doesn’t qualify?