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Master Disaster

Apple face 2 class action suits in USA over slowing down iPhones

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1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

Could you imagine if Intel used microcode updates to throttle older chips or if car manufacturers released OTAs that removed 50hp from your car? There would rightly be uproar yet Apple do exactly that and people still defend them and are OK  with it.

You might want to watch this

 

I think a more appropriate comparison would be if Windows, macOS, and/or Linux monitored the rails of your power supply and once they noted that the rails dipped below a certain range your computer would ping a server which would then send out some sort of mandatory firmware update (or something) provided by Intel, Nvidia, and AMD which would lower your CPU and GPU base and boost frequencies to a level that was sustainable without BSOD.

 

You would receive no notification of this nor would there would be any way to undo this other than replacing your power supply....which you would have no reason to believe you need to do since you've received no notification from your OS and have had no stability issues.


Linus Sebastian said:

The stand is indeed made of metal but I wouldn't drive my car over a bridge made of it.

 

https://youtu.be/X5YXWqhL9ik?t=552

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2 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

. Could you imagine if Intel used microcode updates to throttle older chips

 

They basically did that with their compiler to hamstring AMD CPU's.   There was an uproar and only two types of people defended Intel,  those who genuinely  didn't understand the intricacies of the issue and the fanboy's.

 

 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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13 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

but the most likely outcome is a flat "give em 10 bucks and a pack of ******* peanuts" type of settlement

Funny story, but I recently got a letter in the mail saying that I had been included in a class action suit against AT&T for overcharging on taxes and fees.  In it was a check with my share of the settlement.  Such a windfall has never befell another human being before or since.  I got a whopping $0.06 out of that settlement!

 

Yes, that's 6 cents, 6 pennies, 6 coppers, 6¢, 6/100th of a dollar (I can't think of any other ways to say it).  I'm sure they spent 10 times as much to print, process and mail the check.  In fact, I wager my bank will spend more to process the check than the actual check is worth.  I'm thinking of taking it to my old bank before I close out my account, heh.

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8 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Aside fron standby power the 12v battery shouldnt be used that much while the ignition is on. Unless EV's are using a retarded implementation....

No idea, not looked in to it. Could also just be a case of the Tesla being overly cautious about 12v battery condition. With EV's being so new I wouldn't be surprised if there were some rather nonsensical design choices being made when people are using traditional design thinking.

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What’s the goal of these lawsuits? What’s Apple going to do? All you’re going to be able to do is make Apple settle and or push an update to stop throttling your iPhone and allow it to just shut off. 

 

But I’m sure the lawsuit is for the good of the consumer.....

4 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Then 2 years later they go and throttle that device meaning your phone is 100% arbitrarily running slower

Oh sure let’s go and disregard reality of the situation for the sake of your rhetoric. 

5 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

There is NO EXCUSE to cripple performance

Yes there is, if your PC could not sustain a certain clock speed after two years would you not downclock it? 

 

Or would you keep running an unstable clock speed so you “can stick it to the man?”

12 hours ago, hey_yo_ said:

The problem is that Apple didn't disclosed it

And why should they? I guarantee their UELA lets them do this without having to notify you at all. 

12 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

I thought heat didn't play well with those or am I mistaken?

Maybe if you took a flame directly to the glass you might have a problem, but you aren’t so it won’t. 


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9 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Yes there is, if your PC could not sustain a certain clock speed after two years would you not downclock it? 

 

Or would you keep running an unstable clock speed so you “can stick it to the man?”

I feel like Apple should chill with the crazy clocking of their CPUs in the first place just to get the best Geekbench scores. Just a bit slower and their CPUs would deteriorate slower, their battery life would be better, battery cell life would increase, etc.

 

Also, the problem isn't that the CPU couldn't sustain the clock speed. The battery couldn't handle the power draw. If they didn't run their CPUs so fast that it kills the battery in two years or less this wouldn't be a problem.

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11 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

iPhone X has an AMOLED screen, I thought heat didn't play well with those or am I mistaken?

The issue, historically speaking, with iDevices and repairs that involved removing the screen was not feasible because of Apple's gluing procedure. A few repair shops in Idaho will smash out an iPhone or iPad screen and buy a replacement because it was less expensive when all was said and done, and some part of the screen broke roughly 80-90% of the time anyways.


Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

The issue, historically speaking, with iDevices and repairs that involved removing the screen was not feasible because of Apple's gluing procedure.

Lol what? 

 

The screen is removed with two screws, light heat, and a small pry tool. 

 

What “gluing procedure” are you talking about?


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22 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

-snip-

I think analogies are a terrible way to demonstrate things. They are extremely easy to mess up.

 

A CPU at stock speeds would probably last many years and a user wouldn't even need to think about downclocking, so the analogy falls apart if you think about it at all. A CPU with very high burst power draw plus a small battery is bound to fail, which is what happened.

 

You don't see two year old S6s or 6Ps force restarting during regular use because of damaged batteries, but iPhone 6s on the other hand... that's why I think Apple should chill out with the crazy CPU clocks, negative press like this hurts their brand image.

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15 minutes ago, Kobathor said:

but iPhone 6s

The funny thing is my iPhone 6s Plus is two years old and still gets Geekbench scores higher than the average for the 6s Plus. 

 

15 minutes ago, Kobathor said:

A CPU at stock speeds would probably last many years and a user wouldn't even need to think about downclocking, so the analogy falls apart if you think about it at all.

And no it doesn’t, the principal is the same. 

 

The system can’t run stably because of X, so you do Y to fix it. The details aren’t important. 


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46 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

The funny thing is my iPhone 6s Plus is two years old and still gets Geekbench scores higher than the average for the 6s Plus. 

For the nth time, synthetic benchmarks like Geekbench only measures CPU and GPU computations. It doesn’t translate to UI responsiveness as at the moment, there’s no way to synthetically benchmark UI responsiveness. 


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I see the soul that is inside

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4 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

It doesn’t translate to UI responsiveness as at the moment, there’s no way to synthetically benchmark UI responsiveness. 

It also doesn't meant anything. 


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1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

The system can’t run stably because of X, so you do Y to fix it. The details aren’t important. 

The details are very important when you're not told about it. Nothing is wrong with the design and technical decision here but people need to be told so. If you're buying a new phone because your current one is extremely slow compared to when you brought it and all that is required is a $80 battery replacement and not a $500-$1200 new phone more people would take the $80 option if they knew for sure it would give them back the full performance and excellent device usage time again.

 

Many will still buy the new phone anyway but it's better to have an informed buying decision rather than an uninformed decision.

 

Most people assume their phone is slower due to newer iOS versions, some people actually get very annoyed at that and purposefully not update the phone unless forced to. Now they are being told it probably has little to do with iOS and more to do with their battery, thanks for the multi year delayed information so helpful.

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1 hour ago, DrMacintosh said:

And why should they? I guarantee their UELA lets them do this without having to notify you at all. 

Uhm yes they should inform people and that’s the transparency portion of the EULA. Obviously as a private company Apple can include or not the deliberate throttling they’re doing for every iOS update but they have no choice to come out clean as they’re caught red handed. 

 

Also, by that reasoning, this is like forgiving Microsoft for their invasive telemetry. Remember that even Microsoft was caught red handed by the Dutch DPA for collecting too much personally identifiable information despite the basic telemetry settings promising anonymized telemetry data. Microsoft said that Windows 10 is GDPR compliant but it’s not. So at the beginning, Apple should’ve said that in the beginning to win customer trust. 

 

 


There is more that meets the eye
I see the soul that is inside

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7 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

lso, by that reasoning, this is like forgiving Microsoft for their invasive telemetry.

Not sure how thats similar but ok. 

 

8 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

So at the beginning, Apple should’ve said that in the beginning to win customer trust. 

They don't need to win customer trust, they have earned it over the years and I can tell you this lawsuit isn't going to impact consumer trust in Apple at all. 


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1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

Not sure how thats similar but ok. 

 

They don't need to win customer trust, they have earned it over the years and I can tell you this lawsuit isn't going to impact consumer trust in Apple at all. 

I think @leadeater put it best ✅

15 minutes ago, leadeater said:

The details are very important when you're not told about it. Nothing is wrong with the design and technical decision here but people need to be told so. If you're buying a new phone because your current one is extremely slow compared to when you brought it and all that is required is a $80 battery replacement and not a $500-$1200 new phone more people would take the $80 option if they knew for sure it would give them back the full performance and excellent device usage time again.

 

Many will still buy the new phone anyway but it's better to have an informed buying decision rather than an uninformed decision.

 

Most people assume their phone is slower due to newer iOS versions, some people actually get very annoyed at that and purposefully not update the phone unless forced to. Now they are being told it probably has little to do with iOS and more to do wither their battery, thanks for the multi year delayed information so helpful.

 


There is more that meets the eye
I see the soul that is inside

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14 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Nothing is wrong with the design and technical decision here but people need to be told so.

I would have to disagree. 

 


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17 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Most people assume their phone is slower due to newer iOS versions, some people actually get very annoyed at that and purposefully not update the phone unless forced to.

And no matter how much information you give the consumer that is not going to change. 

 

There is a limit in which a company should have to explain the obvious to you. Granted the obvious might not be obvious to everyone but that is not Apples fault. 


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6 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

I would have to disagree. 

With the technical point or not telling people? Because if you're fine with not telling people pertinent information then you are at odds with basically all of modern western society, fair justice and fair trials, open democracy and free trade.

 

Knowledge is power, that saying didn't come to be for no reason. So withholding knowledge is akin to an abuse of power.

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Just now, DrMacintosh said:

There is a limit in which a company should have to explain the obvious to you. Granted the obvious might not be obvious to everyone but that is not Apples fault

It is more obvious that newer software is the cause of the slowness not the battery. It is more obvious the device not lasting as long is the battery.

 

A device getting actually slower due to a battery is not obvious and is something unique to apple mobile devices which makes it not obvious as there is only one occurrence of this behavior documented.

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Just now, leadeater said:

With the technical point or not telling people?

With telling people. 

 

I am fine with not telling people information that they don't need to be told via a warning label. 

 

"warning, your tires will wear out and will need to be replaced" aka "warning, your battery is warn out and will need to be replaced" the point being these are obvious things and should be expected. 

 

Apple told the internet, now everybody knows. Thats good enough. 

 

This isn't something were lives are at risk or anything of actual consequence is involved. 


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5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

A device getting actually slower due to a battery is not obvious and is something unique to apple mobile devices

Well no Android phones in the past have ever had SoCs and powerful as Apples before. 

 

Now that they do however, I can already tell you that Android phones will and do turn off during normal use because of their batteries not outputting enough power. 

 

Unfortunately Android OEMs can't break the laws of physics. 


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5 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Apple told the internet, now everybody knows. Thats good enough. 

No they told nobody at all when it was implemented, that is the issue. Coming clean years later does not absolve them for something they did wrong.

 

We all know batteries get warn out this is not the issue, devices getting actually slower due to the battery is not common anywhere else. There isn't really any way you can justify it as obvious because that would entail it is commonly done across the entire industry which it is not.

 

Every non Apple phone I've seen with a degraded battery hard shuts down, I've seen it a lot and is something I have never seen on an Apple device. Rather impressive until you find out why.

 

I have no issue with this being done, I think everyone should, just say so when you do. It's not too much to ask for.

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8 minutes ago, leadeater said:

No they told nobody at all when it was implemented, that is the issue. Coming clean years later does not absolve them for something they did wrong.

For them to have to absolve themselves they have to have done something wrong. I don't see a possible way to string this as something negative. 

 

Apple is ensuring that their devices stay operable and unfortunately some batteries are so far gone (in which Apple holds no responsibility outside of a defect) that they have to down clock them significantly enough to be noticable. 

 

8 minutes ago, leadeater said:

devices getting actually slower due to the battery is not common anywhere else.

Because of what you describe below:

8 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Every non Apple phone I've seen with a degraded battery hard shuts down,

Which Apple does not want happening to their products and their brand. 

 

8 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I think everyone should just say so when you do. It's not too much to ask for.

I mean I would be ok with it if it were in the EULA or on a bit of paper that comes with the device, but I see this as a "water is wet" issue and do not want to see it in the OS in any capacity.  

 

And I don't want people to be able to turn it off either, total user freedom in something like this can actually endanger lives. 


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Fanboys are the reason us regular consumers get shafted all the time. They would worship the very dirt the company trods on but will never bash said company for fucking up big time.


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