Apple face 2 class action suits in USA over slowing down iPhones

[Master Disaster]

Hands up who didn't see this one coming? Anyone?

 

So on December 22nd 2017 2 different class actions suits were filed, one in California and the other in Chicage

Quote

Two class action lawsuits have been launched against Apple in the US following the tech giant's admission that it slows down older models of the iPhone as they age.

 

Apple has said that it did this to "prolong the life" of the devices and maximise diminishing battery power.

 

The lawsuits were filed in California and Chicago by groups of iPhone users representing others, who they claim have suffered "economic damage".

The California suit lists loss of use, loss of value and cost to replace batteries...

Quote

In the California court papers, Stefan Boganovich and Dakota Speas, who both live in LA, cite loss of use, loss of value and the purchase of new batteries as reasons for compensation, claiming that iPhone owners never consented to the "interference".

...while the Chicago suit states purposeful, unlawful and decisive withholding of material information...

Quote

James Vlahakis, of the Sulaiman Law Group is representing the plaintiffs in the Chicago legal action.

 

"Apple's failure to inform consumers these updates would wreak havoc on the phone's performance is being deemed purposeful, and if proven, constitutes the unlawful and decisive withholding of material information," he said in a statement.

 

...and continues on to say the action by Apple might even be in direct breach of consumer protection standards.

Quote

Mr Vlahakis added that in his view it would be a "direct violation" of consumer fraud-related legislation in Illinois, Indiana and North Carolina, where the complainants are based.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42455285

https://cbsnewyork.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/applesuit.pdf

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/apple-sued-in-chicago-for-slowing-down-older-iphones/

 

As I said at the top, you've gotta be pretty ignorant to have not seen this one coming. I'm a little surprised it came so quickly though.

 

My guess is the courts will seek a consolidation into one suit and do like they did with Nvidia where anyone who can prove they were affected can submit a claim from the inevitable settlement pay out.

 

RIP Apple I guess. I can't wait to hear what Leanord French has to say on this one.

[captain_to_fire]

Serves them right for being shady and not disclosing throttling even for the right reasons. 

[Master Disaster]

1 minute ago, VegetableStu said:

there was that Apple patent (IIRC) that gave the user a head-sup to bring in to repair when the LCD was empirically considered by the OS to need replacement (drops/cracks/touch creep etc) (might have been Mandela for all I know)

 

I guess the battery warning one could have been implemented.

 

(also RIP Battery Health app on iOS 9)

Problem is Apple only rates phones to last 365 days (anything beyond that is lucky) and rates their phones as non servicable consumables.

 

Something goes wrong with your phone while it's under warranty/Apple Care it's thrown away and you're given a new one.

 

Something goes wrong and you're not covered well tough shit, you buy a new one or pay an exorbitant repair fee (that's almost as much as a new phone anyway).

 

Apple likes you throwing your old phones away and buying new ones every few years and they certainly aren't going to help consumers by telling them when things need replacing.

[CTR640]

Serves them bastard right. They smile after they sue others but then they go "mimimimimi" when they get sued.

[captain_to_fire]

4 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

-snip-

This lawsuit could either end up getting dismissed or reach a settlement that the next iOS update will disclose that an update will throttle down an old iPhone to prolong battery life and prevent random reboots or Apple will pay a hefty amount + settlement. I like that Apple has a nice record of updating old phones to keep them secure but I’d rather see them do Android style updates where feature (new iOS features) is separate from security updates. As an iPhone user, I can say that what Apple did is a dick move and they’re only coming clean at the moment is because they’re caught red handed and they have no choice. 

[AlTech]

8 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Problem is Apple only rates phones to last 365 days (anything beyond that is lucky)

In the USA.

 

In Europe, hardware (such as phones, laptops etc) must be provided with a 2 year Manufacturer Limited Warranty.

 

This is straight from the EU's website:

 

Quote

Under EU rules, a trader must repair, replace, reduce the price or give you a refund if goods you bought turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised.

If you bought a good or a service online or outside of a shop (by telephone, mail order, from a door-to-door salesperson), you also have the right to cancel and return your order within 14 days, for any reason and with no justification.

Quote

Free of charge, 2-year guarantee (legal guarantee) for all goods

Under EU rules you always have the right to a minimum 2-year guarantee at no cost, regardless of whether you bought your goods online, in a shop or by mail order.

This 2-year guarantee is your minimum right. National rules in your country may give you extra protection: however, any deviation from EU rules must always be in the consumer's best interest.

If goods you bought anywhere in the EU turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised, the seller must repair or replace them free of charge or give you a price reduction or a full refund.

As a general rule, you will only be able to ask for a partial or full refund when it is not possible to repair or replace the goods.

 

Sometimes living in the EU is a good thing .

 

8 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Something goes wrong with your phone while it's under warranty/Apple Care it's thrown away and you're given a new one.

Basically this ^^^^

 

[Anult]

4 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

sorry for the culture shock, but what....???? o_o

I think it's a reference to this dangerous individual who once sued apple over siri:

 

[Master Disaster]

14 hours ago, hey_yo_ said:

This lawsuit could either end up getting dismissed or reach a settlement that the next iOS update will disclose that an update will throttle down an old iPhone to prolong battery life and prevent random reboots or Apple will pay a hefty amount + settlement. I like that Apple has a nice record of updating old phones to keep them secure but I’d rather see them do Android style updates where feature (new iOS features) is separate from security updates. As an iPhone user, I can say that what Apple did is a dick move and they’re only coming clean at the moment is because they’re caught red handed and they have no choice. 

I have a feeling this is going to grow to the size of Nvidias 970 suit or even bigger. I mean there's potential for 100s of 1000s, if not millions of affected customers in the USA alone.

 

I think once this goes mainstream a lot of people are going to join in.

 

14 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

In the USA.

 

In Europe, hardware (such as phones, laptops etc) must be provided with a 2 year Manufacturer Limited Warranty.

 

This is straight from the EU's website:

 

 

Sometimes living in the EU is a good thing .

 

Basically this ^^^^

 

Its a US based action to EU law is entirely irrelevant.

[Misanthrope]

I hope this will have a more profound and lasting impact on them, but the most likely outcome is a flat "give em 10 bucks and a pack of fucking peanuts" type of settlement that will actually tell apple is ok to get away with shit overall in a cold cost analysis.

[mynameisjuan]

The hole throttling to save battery concept is not that bad an idea nor that big of a deal, but the fact that apple said time and time again they dont do anything to the phone until years later pisses me off a bit. If they would of come out and said this generations ago this wouldnt be happening. 

 

The problem with this lawsuit is I dont understand how they are going to sue over slowness. I mean my work iphone 6 became dogshit slow but that was after two years, but I just dont see how I could take that to court, especially with a lot of 6's in my area having issue just staying powered on. CPUs do have a min voltage requirement that needs to be met. 

[AlTech]

2 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Its a US based action to EU law is entirely irrelevant.

I was quoting what you said about the 365 day Guarantee from Apple.

 

Apple probably provide the least amount of warranty they can get away with anyhow.

[captain_to_fire]

Just now, Master Disaster said:

I have a feeling thus is going to grow to the size of Nvidias 970 suit or even bigger. I mean there's potential for 100s of 1000s, if not millions of affected customers in the USA alone.

 

I think once this goes mainstream a lot of people are going to join in.

 

 

And I hope it won’t be another “RealPlayer DRM lawsuit” which took ten years. If more people jumped in, the court might decide to force Apple to inform their customers that an upd will throttle performance or Apple might do Android style updates of their own. 

[mynameisjuan]

4 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

I still think Apple should have done a Tesla at the very least ._.

And then people are going to sue because they have to pay for repair to replace the battery because their phone said so. 

[mynameisjuan]

1 minute ago, VegetableStu said:

batteries cost money people.

Im not arguing that at all. Todays world, people dont want a one time cost and their devices/objects to last a life time with no maintenance required and if needed need to be free. 

 

Battery degrade....there is no getting around this. But look at the nexus 6P problem with the 821s requiring a lot of power and after a year or two shutting down when a load was put on it. 

 

Its a damned if you do, damned if you dont problem. 

[Master Disaster]

15 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Im not arguing that at all. Todays world, people dont want a one time cost and their devices/objects to last a life time with no maintenance required and if needed need to be free. 

 

Battery degrade....there is no getting around this. But look at the nexus 6P problem with the 821s requiring a lot of power and after a year or two shutting down when a load was put on it. 

 

Its a damned if you do, damned if you dont problem. 

Well the courts have the power to subpoena any relevant information and then independently look if Apple could have solved this without throttling performances.

 

I guess Apple took the easiest and cheapest option to solve the issue. If there was other, more lawful ways then my money is on the courts doing the following, Certainly Apple are paying compensation for this, there's also a very good chance they'll be forced to either tell consumers what they're doing or maybe even roll the changes back entirely and go with a different fix.

 

I also guess that Apple with start throwing around the Note 7 incident and claim safety concerns and consumer protection.

 

Unfortunately, as @hey_yo_

pointed out these things tend to take years to settle. By the time Apple have to do anything the iPhone X will be old tech.

 

Btw sorry for the weird new line above, on my tablet if I @ someone I can't carry on writing on that line

[jagdtigger]

32 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

I still think Apple should have done a Tesla at the very least ._.

https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/self-replacement-12v-battery

Two years seems a little bit short for what its used.... The battery in my bike is older than 2 years but its still doing its job, even in sub 0 temps(even though i dont use it i start it every month and let it warm up, some would think its not necessary but think about what happens with the oil on the parts after 5 or so months)

[leadeater]

22 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

Two years seems a little bit short for what its used.... The battery in my bike is older than 2 years but its still doing its job, even in sub 0 temps(even though i dont use it i start it every month and let it warm up, some would think its not necessary but think about what happens with the oil on the parts after 5 or so months)

I think it might be a case of more stress being put on the 12v battery in electric cars since they don't have an alternator so power is always being drained and recharged in to the battery to a higher degree than in a combustion engine vehicle. Just a total guess without looking in to it at all but it's the same reason why double conversion UPSs require battery replacement every 2-4 years compared to online and standby UPSs which can often get away with 5 years depending on battery quality.

 

Edit:

Would be nice if my car could actually monitor the health of the battery properly and warn me before it's dead. Nothing is more annoying than going to start the car on a holiday before you are about to drive long distance and the car won't start and road side service is very busy because it's a holiday and you can't be late because you've booked tickets to something.

[Misanthrope]

45 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Im not arguing that at all. Todays world, people dont want a one time cost and their devices/objects to last a life time with no maintenance required and if needed need to be free. 

 

Battery degrade....there is no getting around this. But look at the nexus 6P problem with the 821s requiring a lot of power and after a year or two shutting down when a load was put on it. 

 

Its a damned if you do, damned if you dont problem. 

Batteries also used to be user-replaceable and in some rare cases they still are. If Apple made a design decision to screw over users and block them from replacing the batteries themselves then they've got nobody buy themselves to blame for if they later can't adhere to European standards of warranty or user expectations.

 

So not really: their lame excuse only highlights yet another one of their shitty anti consumer decisions.

[mynameisjuan]

9 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Batteries also used to be user-replaceable and in some rare cases they still are. If Apple made a design decision to screw over users and block them from replacing the batteries themselves then they've got nobody buy themselves to blame for if they later can't adhere to European standards of warranty or user expectations.

 

So not really: their lame excuse only highlights yet another one of their shitty anti consumer decisions.

Iphone never had a user replaceable battery.....

 

I dont get why everyone think every device should be self repairable. First of all, replacing an iphone battery is easy as fuck and can be done in 15mins. People cant just watch a 5 min video instead of pissing and moaning after they look at a phone and see it has no removable back. 

 

A uni-body design is not just to screw over customers but contributes to overall look, durability and water/dustproofing. AFAIK the S5 was the only one that had it all with a removable battery. 

 

Saying a device that is unrepairable (or harder to repair) is anti consumerism is retarded. A lot of devices are irreparable altogether and people are fine with it, but when it comes to phones people lose their shit.

[leadeater]

7 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

A lot of devices are irreparable altogether and people are fine with it

Or is more costly to repair due to labor cost. Like who would bother to repair a toaster or microwave now days? Buying a new one is quicker and cheaper. If phones cost what a microwaved cost there wouldn't even be a discussion, it would already be generally accepted to throw phones away at the first sign of a problem and buy a new one no questions asked.

 

Edit:

My father used to repair TVs lol.

[captain_to_fire]

9 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

If Apple was just slowing them down for the sake of battery life than I'm a bit more on Apple's side of this lawsuit.  Because that's one of the things actually good about iPhones.

The problem is that Apple didn't disclosed it to users and has no plans of disclosing it until they're caught throttling red handed by Reddit users and Geekbench. If this lawsuit ends up in a hearing, it can take five to ten years to settle just like the Real Player DRM lawsuit vs Apple which was only settled in 2014.

[mynameisjuan]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Or is more costly to repair due to labor cost. Like who would bother to repair a toaster or microwave now days? Buying a new one is quicker and cheaper. If phones cost what a microwaved cost there wouldn't even be a discussion, it would already be generally accepted to throw phones away at the first sign of a problem and buy a new one no questions asked.

 

Edit:

My father used to repair TVs lol.

True..true...

 

The thing is to replace a battery from a store or shop is usually around $100 or so and to do it yourself is $20 and comes with tools. I think that cost really is not that bad. 

 

I dont know. At least I am fine with devices being unrepairable. My $3000 OLED tv will dim, get burn in, or just die and I cant repair it myself. I will either need to get it repaired by a professional or buy a new one. I am not going to sue LG because 5-10 years down the line I need to fork more money over again. 

[leadeater]

17 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

My $3000 OLED tv will dim, get burn in, or just die and I cant repair it myself. I will either need to get it repaired by a professional or buy a new one. I am not going to sue LG because 5-10 years down the line I need to fork more money over again. 

Modern TVs are just generally not repairable, at least not by the now defunct electrical repair and technician workshops which is why my father works in IT and not repairing electrical goods anymore. CRT TVs were easy to work with and repair and everything was common and easy to diagnose and replace parts, now TVs are all integrated circuits and proprietary firmware that controls everything so unless you have the right tools and parts repair isn't possible even if you were willing to pay someone to repair it.

 

It's rather amusing that one of the big technological advances in the modern industrial movement was 'replaceable parts' or 'interchangeable parts' but basically the first thing we did was make everything as cheap as possible and made the parts basically locked together once assembled.

[Master Disaster]

31 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

Iphone never had a user replaceable battery.....

 

I dont get why everyone think every device should be self repairable. First of all, replacing an iphone battery is easy as fuck and can be done in 15mins. People cant just watch a 5 min video instead of pissing and moaning after they look at a phone and see it has no removable back. 

 

A uni-body design is not just to screw over customers but contributes to overall look, durability and water/dustproofing. AFAIK the S5 was the only one that had it all with a removable battery. 

 

Saying a device that is unrepairable (or harder to repair) is anti consumerism is retarded. A lot of devices are irreparable altogether and people are fine with it, but when it comes to phones people lose their shit.

Except the iPhone X where THE ONLY way in is through the screen which is glued to the chassis and must be heated with a heat gun to be removed.

 

Yep, you literally have to heat gun the second most expensive component in the device to expose the logic board and battery.

 

And for the record no, people don't lose their shit when manufacturers make things difficult to repair, people lose their shit when manufacturers make conscious decisions to make every single component as close to impossible to repair as they can for no reason other than planned obsolescence. Apple deliberately make things nigh on impossible to repair and deliberately don't release any repair schematics and documentation because they dont want their devices to be repaired. I mean why allow customers to repair old devices when they can sell them a new device.

[vetali]

oh boy, can't wait for my $10 in the mail 5 years from now.

 

class action lawsuits are a scam in themselves.