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EvilCat70

The FCC just KILLED Net Neutrality

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12 hours ago, trekkie1701c said:

And even if you somehow get around that (If you're willing to shell out, I suppose you could run OpenVPN on AWS or something and set up custom ports), packet inspection will still probably tell them what it is.  Or they just go with unknown traffic and throttle the hell out of it because it wasn't paid for in your plan.  Or sorry, they don't "optimize" the speed of the traffic or whatever bs they're going to sell it as.

But you could use proxies such as shadowsocks to encrypt and obfuscate packets into tls handshakes to other websites such as Google or the ISP's website itself. People in China have been doing this for years to get pass the firewall and there's also people using it to get "unlimited" data by obfuscating it to their service providers' domains. (Personally I've also been using it to bypass my school's blacklist)

 

Maybe we could use this to rip off some greedy ISPs?

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5 hours ago, TheCherryKing said:

That's a very bad example. There aren't any people out there that argue cutting off your fingers is a good thing.

Maybe not on the corner of the internet you view.
You know the whole concept of Rule 34? In my experience whatever causes that rule to be true applies to more concepts. If there is a bad idea out there, someone will think its a good idea, and will defend it.
Ive read serious people trying to argue how lead in food is a good thing, and why we should use more asbestos.

- Fun Fact: Asbestos is still used in the USA while most other countries have banned it for use in construction. Reason why it isn't banned here? It cost too much and only save 200 lives a year according to the 5th Circuit Court in 1991.

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5 minutes ago, Sypran said:

Maybe not on the corner of the internet you view.
You know the whole concept of Rule 34? In my experience whatever causes that rule to be true applies to more concepts. If there is a bad idea out there, someone will think its a good idea, and will defend it.
Ive read serious people trying to argue how lead in food is a good thing, and why we should use more asbestos.

- Fun Fact: Asbestos is still used in the USA while most other countries have banned it for use in construction. Reason why it isn't banned here? It cost too much and only save 200 lives a year according to the 5th Circuit Court in 1991.

Asbestos is still mined and used heavily in  Russia too.  they have a town named after it (or the other way around) and even their top doctor is advocating for it's "harmlessness".

 

 


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you guys in the US have a serious problem with lobbying by corporations and special interests. I guess it happens a bit everywhere but in the US is ridiculous. And then there's the level of politics there, sweet lord. And we all thought Bush Jr was an idiot and it could never go any worst.

 

 

it's impossible not to be amazed by this guy

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/verizon-vp-jokes-at-planting-a-brainwashed-fcc-chairman-ajit-pai-says-awesome/

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/smirking-fcc-chairman-posts-video-mocking-net-neutrality-supporters/

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/fcc-chairman-ajit-pai-claims-net-neutrality-hurts-the-sick-and-disabled/

 

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/11/ajit-pai-blames-cher-and-hulk-actor-for-ginning-up-net-neutrality-support/

 

http://variety.com/2017/biz/news/ajit-pai-fcc-net-neutrality-1202427723/

 

you couldn't make this shit up, no one would be this insane :o

 

 


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Amerika really does not even try to mask the corruption, does it?

 

Honestly,... this one guy said he is doing it FOR THE PEOPLE and that not having a free internet is BETTER for them. 

Not like Trump would be any different, but really guys,...

 

... how can you tolerate corruption this easily and not go out and put those people out of their positions? The whole US system is based around corruption to even get elected. You need that big fat money and the big companies give it to them. OBVIOUSLY without wanting and favor back after election. Everyone believes that!

 

Really, seeing this from afar is mind blowingly crazy. I just can't believe a system that calls itself a democracy is working like that. There is like no democracy in all of that, just bribery.

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12 hours ago, mr moose said:

Repealing a law because companies didn't abide by it is not a great foundation for any society.  If NN didn't curb ISP behaviour then the ISP's need to be held to account,  Not allowed to just keep going then get given a free pass.  This would be further evidence that the US is not a democracy but a corporate dictatorship.

To be completely fair though, I hate how people talk about America being a democracy.


We are a republic.

 

To be honest, understanding that answers a lot of peoples' frustrations associated with how laws get enacted, repealed, etc. in this country.

 

It's why I state that the issues of access to information need to be put in place into our constitution, since in a republic, the constitution protects the "minority" from the "majority". The majority technically being the people elected into power.

 

Issues like limiting access to information can then be disputed at the legal level.

 

However, people complaining about Netflix getting throttled in certain regions of the country (more than likely where bandwidth isn't plentiful) need to understand that bandwidth isn't free and the people that manage IT infrastructure do not come cheap. Just like with electricity, gas, and water, you pay more for what you consume. It's up to Netflix (and other content providers) to negotiate the rates associated with how much bandwidth their traffic can leverage. I remember there being a dispute between Netflix and Comcast years passed, which resulted in data throttling due to them being unable to strike a deal.

 

People need to understand that these resources aren't infinite, and that there are operational costs associated.

 

Otherwise, the logic behind net neutrality should be dictated everywhere, so we all get to pay the same amount of money for electricity, gas, water (any service that connects our homes to a shared grid) and the companies associated just have to figure out how to support that, regardless of usage.

 

To take it even further, then theoretically, paying for different bandwidth tiers should also be considered "fast lanes" as you are not getting new medium connected to your house to support the different speeds. You should be limited by the physical media chosen to connect your house, just like in your home and connections to your router.

 

We need to view these things from a less "foaming at the mouth" perspective, and more of a logical and knowledgeable one.

 

I am not saying that you are, but these are the questions and topics I never see anyone discussing. It's more of "bandwagon me too" mentality arguments with no logical or factual basis.

 

How do we reduce costs associated with managing these networks? How do we get broadband access to all Americans?

 

Unless someone can cite otherwise, NN has NOT gotten broadband to more regions of the country, but neither has its lack of existence. Maybe it's time that we treated the internet like we do water, gas, and electricity and have programs instilled that get this access to everyone at an affordable rate, you know, real MAGA type stuff. These topics I haven't seen discussed in a productive way, and these are our real problems.


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7 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

I know @LinusTech

And @Slick

 

Usually don't cover political topics on the WAN show and i fully understand why they dont too but i really hope that Linus goes fucking ham on this on today's show and i really hope he tells everyone why NN was a good thing and why repealing it was a bad thing.

 

I don't believe people are defending this or that people genuinely believe that the corporation's won't exploit every little thing in their power to milk every customer dry.

 

Why exactly would Trump push so hard for this to happen if no one wanted to make use of it?

 

The entire reason this was implemented was because some ISPs were starting to throttle traffic they didn't like and charging extra for the privilege of unthrottling it, it literally was happening already. You think they pushed SOOO hard to kill NN so they could not start doing it again?

Can you source where trump pushed for the repeal of nn?

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Direct quote from the new bill: 
No throttling. FCC release, p.83

Many of the largest ISPs (Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, Cox, Frontier, etc.) have committed in this proceeding not to block or throttle legal content.507 These commitments can be enforced by the FTC under Section 5, protecting consumers without imposing public-utility regulation on ISPs

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26 minutes ago, Jon Jon said:

However, people complaining about Netflix getting throttled in certain regions of the country (more than likely where bandwidth isn't plentiful) need to understand that bandwidth isn't free and the people that manage IT infrastructure do not come cheap. Just like with electricity, gas, and water, you pay more for what you consume. It's up to Netflix (and other content providers) to negotiate the rates associated with how much bandwidth their traffic can leverage. I remember there being a dispute between Netflix and Comcast years passed, which resulted in data throttling due to them being unable to strike a deal.

 

People need to understand that these resources aren't infinite, and that there are operational costs associated

Isn't this exactly why we consumers/businesses pay for different bandwidth tiers already? (And different data caps/allowances in some cases) I don't see why the consumer or the business should have to have pay for additional plans to avoid throttling based on content when they are already paying for a set bandwidth and cap.


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4 minutes ago, tjcater said:

Isn't this exactly why we consumers/businesses pay for different bandwidth tiers already? (And different data caps/allowances in some cases) I don't see why the consumer or the business should have to have pay for additional plans to avoid throttling based on content when they are already paying for a set bandwidth and cap.

 

18 minutes ago, Spenser1337 said:

Direct quote from the new bill: 
No throttling. FCC release, p.83

Many of the largest ISPs (Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, Cox, Frontier, etc.) have committed in this proceeding not to block or throttle legal content.507 These commitments can be enforced by the FTC under Section 5, protecting consumers without imposing public-utility regulation on ISPs

 

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21 minutes ago, Spenser1337 said:

Direct quote from the new bill: 
No throttling. FCC release, p.83

Many of the largest ISPs (Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, Cox, Frontier, etc.) have committed in this proceeding not to block or throttle legal content.507 These commitments can be enforced by the FTC under Section 5, protecting consumers without imposing public-utility regulation on ISPs

What bill is this?


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4 minutes ago, anthonyjc2010 said:

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be rude or degrading; I was just a bit pissed when I wrote it and I targeted some of my frustration in your direction.

No worries, I can understand you being annoyed at what happened.. I feel it too and am not even directly affected by it at the moment.

 


Please quote my post, or put @paddy-stone if you want me to respond to you, I may not see your post otherwise.

 

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5 hours ago, Sypran said:

Maybe not on the corner of the internet you view.
You know the whole concept of Rule 34? In my experience whatever causes that rule to be true applies to more concepts. If there is a bad idea out there, someone will think its a good idea, and will defend it.
Ive read serious people trying to argue how lead in food is a good thing, and why we should use more asbestos.

- Fun Fact: Asbestos is still used in the USA while most other countries have banned it for use in construction. Reason why it isn't banned here? It cost too much and only save 200 lives a year according to the 5th Circuit Court in 1991.

Those topics are not relevant to net neutrality. Besides even though asbestos is unsafe to breathe in it is very effective for fireproofing. Lead on food on the other hand has no arguments supporting it. 

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25 minutes ago, lobster_zoidberg said:

https://www.scribd.com/document/365201684/FCC-order-repealing-net-neutrality#fullscreen&from_embed

 

Bet nobody here had any idea they could actually read it (including the parts banning throttling and blocking)

 

21 minutes ago, Spenser1337 said:

That's all nice and I would be supportive of this, but how much of the perceived/feared possibilities can be prevented under "deceptive acts or practices"? From what I've read, the FTC takes a "wait and see" approach to preventing these actions.

Edited by tjcater
. -> ?

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I'm sure most of the people have simply been scared by things like this image: 

DNGlrABUIAAr9RO.jpg

Which despite what you no doubt read, it isn't micro-transactions to access services - its actually offering heavily discounted data to access those specific services. 

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2 hours ago, Jon Jon said:

However, people complaining about Netflix getting throttled in certain regions of the country (more than likely where bandwidth isn't plentiful) need to understand that bandwidth isn't free and the people that manage IT infrastructure do not come cheap. Just like with electricity, gas, and water, you pay more for what you consume. It's up to Netflix (and other content providers) to negotiate the rates associated with how much bandwidth their traffic can leverage. I remember there being a dispute between Netflix and Comcast years passed, which resulted in data throttling due to them being unable to strike a deal.

 

The whole Netflix throttling thing had nothing to do with bandwidth, it was all about people choosing Netflix over Comcast's own streaming service and the lost revenue from that.  The fact that the throttling stopped literally the day that they struck a deal is plenty of evidence that the bandwidth existed and they only had to flip the proverbial switch.  Unless you choose to believe that they did massive upgrades to their whole infrastructure in the course of an afternoon.

 

As for bandwidth not being plentiful, since the early 1990s ISPs have received roughly $400 BILLION in exchange for upgrading their infrastructure to fiber (all the way to people's homes) and making that fiber available to competitors.  If lack of bandwidth or lack of competition is an issue anywhere nowadays, it's because they pocketed the money without actually living up to their part of the deal.

 

 

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17 hours ago, lilbman said:

Net neutrality isn't the only solution to that though.  Say a Comcast user is also a Netflix subscriber but Comcast is throttling the speeds for Netflix.  That Comcast user can stop using Comcast and go to a service that offers what the consumer wants.  This would likely happen on a large enough scale, which would force Comcast to change unless they want to lose business.

 

I'd rather have the ISPs be in control of the internet over the government because as a consumer, we can push a company in the right direction by taking business away from them, but with the government, we can't because the people in the FCC are not elected officials.  

 

Remember: the purpose of a company is to make money, and if you want to make money, you have to be selling a product that the consumer wants.

 

In a truly free market, it is hard for a monopoly to survive for a long period of time because it's extremely difficult to keep up with.

 

I mean, look at Standard Oil. Before monopoly laws even existed, they had monopolized the oil market.  By the time the government passed anti-monopoly legislation, Standard Oil had already lost a very very large part of its market share because it couldn't maintain its death grip on the market.

50% of the US only has 1 choice, and we only 3 or 4 main ISPs across the country with 3% having more than 2 option.


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11 hours ago, mr moose said:

Your government begs to differ:

 

https://www.state.gov/j/drl/democ/

 

we are a constitutional republic as stated by @tjcater.

We love to call our self one but we aren't


Good luck, Have fun, Build PC, and have a last gen console for use once a year. I should answer most of the time between midday and midnight.

NightHawk: i5 6600k @4.1, ASUS Z170m-plus, H105, 16gb corsair vengeance LPX, Strix GTX 970 XFX RX 580 8GB, Corsair RM750X, 500 gb 850 evo, 250gb 750 evo and 5tb Toshiba x300

My compute server (remember to add link) HP DL380G6 2xE5520 24GB ram with 4x146gb 10k drives and 4x300gb 10K drives, running NOTHING can't get anything to work :)

WIP NAS Cisco Security Multiservices Platform server e5420 12gb ram, 1x6 1tb raid 6 for plex + Need funding 16+1 2tb raid 6 for mass storage.

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2 hours ago, lobster_zoidberg said:

I'm sure most of the people have simply been scared by things like this image: 

DNGlrABUIAAr9RO.jpg

Which despite what you no doubt read, it isn't micro-transactions to access services - its actually offering heavily discounted data to access those specific services. 

oh no, not this again. And you all wonder why the US is in this state *facepalm*

 

That is for mobile phone internet only. And it's just something you can get if you prefer, but in parallel you have on that ISP the traditional way of getting internet for your phone, a monthly fee and you get the 1GB or more or less and even have most of those most used app not counting for the cap.

 

I get people not speaking/reading Portuguese, but come on


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2 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

 

The whole Netflix throttling thing had nothing to do with bandwidth, it was all about people choosing Netflix over Comcast's own streaming service and the lost revenue from that.  The fact that the throttling stopped literally the day that they struck a deal is plenty of evidence that the bandwidth existed and they only had to flip the proverbial switch.  Unless you choose to believe that they did massive upgrades to their whole infrastructure in the course of an afternoon

Netflix even installed servers in most ISPs local offices that have most of Netflix's content so that its only the local network. 


Good luck, Have fun, Build PC, and have a last gen console for use once a year. I should answer most of the time between midday and midnight.

NightHawk: i5 6600k @4.1, ASUS Z170m-plus, H105, 16gb corsair vengeance LPX, Strix GTX 970 XFX RX 580 8GB, Corsair RM750X, 500 gb 850 evo, 250gb 750 evo and 5tb Toshiba x300

My compute server (remember to add link) HP DL380G6 2xE5520 24GB ram with 4x146gb 10k drives and 4x300gb 10K drives, running NOTHING can't get anything to work :)

WIP NAS Cisco Security Multiservices Platform server e5420 12gb ram, 1x6 1tb raid 6 for plex + Need funding 16+1 2tb raid 6 for mass storage.

PSU White list:

Spoiler

 

I love to fly 

Spoiler

 

How to get PC parts cheap 

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