Calls for Twitch to police 'sexual streaming'

[Thony]

Twitch need to make 18+ section so these girls can go all out and compete with other camgirl sites. 

 

Even blind person can tell which girl is on there to just show off her body and which one is there to be a gaming streamer.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

54 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

I see your point. Essentially if it's legal it's fine regardless of the consequences.

No, actually my point goes way beyond that. I'm specifically picking on people trying to get people who create content they don't watch banned, which is like asking Amazon to stop selling AM4 Excavator+ APUs and banned anyone selling them in Amazon marketplace because I personally don't see the point to it, regardless of whether buyers and sellers are happy with the exchange, an exchange I don't participate in any way.

 

54 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

So if I were to park in front of your driveway so you can't get your car in or out it's fine because it's a public road.

That's not legal. I mean, it's not a crime, but you get a fine and your car towed away.

 

54 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

That's not what you're saying necessarily but I get that it's your mindset. Or if teenagers take over the playground so your kids can't play there it's fine because there are no rules saying playgrounds are for kids.

Saying "fine" is quite empty. What does "fine" and "not fine" mean in the end? Probably there is a more concrete petition in each case (such as "there should be a city bill prompting police to clean playgrounds for kids").

 

By the way, you carefully selected two examples of "griefing", or at the very least "rivalry", as in each case (parking the car, occupying the playground) deprives someone else of something (whether legitimately or not): the ability to leave your garage, the possibility to play in the playground.

I have yet to see a single argument on how is the existence of certain Twitch streams deprives anyone from enjoying the Twitch content they like (I mean, other than the "think of the children" types, but I won't waste time beating a dead horse). There is no rivalry here, the questioned streams are not blocking the streams you want in any way, there's no finite resource running out here either.

The kind of arguments I responded to are in fact closer to "I dislike homosexuality, therefore other adults should be banned from engaging in homosexual relationships, even if they are both happy with it".

 

54 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Ultimately it's a case of: Twitch was made for game streaming and should remain so

It almost sounds like Twitch is a public service or there is some theological mandate about it. Twitch is a private streaming company, and it streams. I can stream myself typing this if I want to, or rather if Twitch wants to, because as a private company they are free to decide what they will and won't deal on. There is absolutely no reason why "Amazon should have remained an online bookstore", and the same applies to Twitch.

Even if Twitch stops servicing a particular market altogether, feel free to start your own streaming service filling the niche. 

 

54 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

 (even if it wrecks the platform for the target/core audience)

How? How does it wreck it? 5 pages and no one explained how their experience is ruined by the existence of streams they don't watch.

[Master Disaster]

34 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

No, actually my point goes way beyond that. I'm specifically picking on people trying to get people who create content they don't watch banned, which is like asking Amazon to stop selling AM4 Excavator+ APUs and banned anyone selling them in Amazon marketplace because I personally don't see the point to it, regardless of whether buyers and sellers are happy with the exchange, an exchange I don't participate in any way.

 

That's not legal. I mean, it's not a crime, but you get a fine and your car towed away.

 

Saying "fine" is quite empty. What does "fine" and "not fine" mean in the end? Probably there is a more concrete petition in each case (such as "there should be a city bill prompting police to clean playgrounds for kids").

 

By the way, you carefully selected two examples of "griefing", or at the very least "rivalry", as in each case (parking the car, occupying the playground) deprives someone else of something (whether legitimately or not): the ability to leave your garage, the possibility to play in the playground.

I have yet to see a single argument on how is the existence of certain Twitch streams deprives anyone from enjoying the Twitch content they like (I mean, other than the "think of the children" types, but I won't waste time beating a dead horse). There is no rivalry here, the questioned streams are not blocking the streams you want in any way, there's no finite resource running out here either.

The kind of arguments I responded to are in fact closer to "I dislike homosexuality, therefore other adults should be banned from engaging in homosexual relationships, even if they are both happy with it".

 

It almost sounds like Twitch is a public service or there is some theological mandate about it. Twitch is a private streaming company, and it streams. I can stream myself typing this if I want to, or rather if Twitch wants to, because as a private company they are free to decide what they will and won't deal on. There is absolutely no reason why "Amazon should have remained an online bookstore", and the same applies to Twitch.

Even if Twitch stops servicing a particular market altogether, feel free to start your own streaming service filling the niche. 

 

How? How does it wreck it? 5 pages and no one explained how their experience is ruined by the existence of streams they don't watch.

I've asked that exact question 3 times, no one has answered it yet.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

The kids are all at youporn.

Nobody goes on youporn.

2 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Young padawan, pre-internet kids were watching shows truly intended "for the whole family"... as it was actually the fathers tuning in (cfr. Xuxa and the others)

I didn't know there was a survey linked to this.

2 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

That's more of a corporate decision for Twitch than a reason to outrage, isn't it?

I didn't say it was a reason to outrage.

2 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

That's kind of for Twitch to say?

They already have.

2 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Illicitly would imply illegal or otherwise against a norm? Which norm is it, again? Certainly, a rule that doesn't seem to apply to pop music, hollywood movies, even news presenters sometimes... 

Being an internet whore is against the norm for twitch.

[Derangel]

55 minutes ago, Thony said:

Twitch need to make 18+ section so these girls can go all out and compete with other camgirl sites. 

 

Even blind person can tell which girl is on there to just show off her body and which one is there to be a gaming streamer.

Yep. Or even a 15/16+ section for the kind of things you'd see in a PG-13 movie that is on the edge of being R. If a 13 year old can go see a Bay Transformers film where Megan Fox is presenting herself on a motorcycle in clothes that barely count as hiding anything and people don't get outraged about that I don't understand the double standard at play here.

[pas008]

3 minutes ago, Derangel said:

Yep. Or even a 15/16+ section for the kind of things you'd see in a PG-13 movie that is on the edge of being R. If a 13 year old can go see a Bay Transformers film where Megan Fox is presenting herself on a motorcycle in clothes that barely count as hiding anything and people don't get outraged about that I don't understand the double standard at play here.

exactly

how about commercials from victorias secret/etc

not seeing how anyone can be bitching

[SpaceGhostC2C]

37 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Being an internet whore is against the norm for twitch.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's no part of Twitch's ToS stating "don't be an internet whore", not to mention you calling people names doesn't really have any relevance for compliance with Twitch's terms.

So, yes, we're back to square one, "it's plain wrong!", i get it. At this point I can give up expecting anything past that.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's no part of Twitch's ToS stating "don't be an internet whore", not to mention you calling people names doesn't really have any relevance for compliance with Twitch's terms.

So, yes, we're back to square one, "it's plain wrong!", i get it. At this point I can give up expecting anything past that.

I would suggest actually reading it.

[Trixanity]

45 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

I've asked that exact question 3 times, no one has answered it yet.

 

1 hour ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

No, actually my point goes way beyond that. I'm specifically picking on people trying to get people who create content they don't watch banned, which is like asking Amazon to stop selling AM4 Excavator+ APUs and banned anyone selling them in Amazon marketplace because I personally don't see the point to it, regardless of whether buyers and sellers are happy with the exchange, an exchange I don't participate in any way.

 

That's not legal. I mean, it's not a crime, but you get a fine and your car towed away.

 

Saying "fine" is quite empty. What does "fine" and "not fine" mean in the end? Probably there is a more concrete petition in each case (such as "there should be a city bill prompting police to clean playgrounds for kids").

 

By the way, you carefully selected two examples of "griefing", or at the very least "rivalry", as in each case (parking the car, occupying the playground) deprives someone else of something (whether legitimately or not): the ability to leave your garage, the possibility to play in the playground.

I have yet to see a single argument on how is the existence of certain Twitch streams deprives anyone from enjoying the Twitch content they like (I mean, other than the "think of the children" types, but I won't waste time beating a dead horse). There is no rivalry here, the questioned streams are not blocking the streams you want in any way, there's no finite resource running out here either.

The kind of arguments I responded to are in fact closer to "I dislike homosexuality, therefore other adults should be banned from engaging in homosexual relationships, even if they are both happy with it".

 

It almost sounds like Twitch is a public service or there is some theological mandate about it. Twitch is a private streaming company, and it streams. I can stream myself typing this if I want to, or rather if Twitch wants to, because as a private company they are free to decide what they will and won't deal on. There is absolutely no reason why "Amazon should have remained an online bookstore", and the same applies to Twitch.

Even if Twitch stops servicing a particular market altogether, feel free to start your own streaming service filling the niche. 

 

How? How does it wreck it? 5 pages and no one explained how their experience is ruined by the existence of streams they don't watch.

It shouldn't necessarily be banned but it shouldn't exist in the wrong category. You're advocating that streaming jumping jacks fits in the gaming section if there is a TV on the background with gameplay. If they move it out of gaming section and into a completely different place no one would care and these girls would lose a lot of new viewers because they need the eyes that browse the front page and we all know a 'mature audience' tag would keep that off the front page.

 

I'm not saying think of the children. I'm saying think of the platform. You can deliberately not click on the titty streams (if they're not doing bait-and-switch) but can you tell me why when I browse to look for new content that I'm potentially looking at 50% titty streams? That's why it's ruining things. Consider a library where everything is placed randomly. You want to find non-fiction books about nature but you end up finding a lot of fiction instead. You frustrate the user and they leave. Amazon will eventually ruin the platform when people stop taking it seriously and advertisers move away. Are you familiar with video response girls or are you not old enough for that? This is pretty much the same. History is repeating itself. Amazon will either have to put their foot down now or let it take over part of your site. YouTube eventually removed an entire function from the site because it was overrun by reply girls which was not the intention with the function. This is the same. It's an exploit, nothing more. The girls themselves even recognize that and there are multiple instances of it.

 

If we flip it around why would it be an issue if the titty streamers moved to a different section or even a different site? Because it wrecks their money hustle? Because it would most definitely put a damper on it. The turn-around on such girls is pretty damn fast. Just look at the porn industry. It's the 1% that makes it big, the rest are forgotten very quickly. That's why they want to remain on Twitch in the gaming section. They stand out right now and it's a novelty. Those who are banned refer to Twitter/Instagram/Patreon so they can continue their hustle after they've established some following. But it's still a mystery why some accounts get banned and some do not despite the content being the same (if we exclude the few who did intentional upskirt/nipslip to gain notoriety).

 

It boils down to that right now it's spoiling the pie. It takes eyes away from streamers who follow the rules and the spirit of the platform because the further you have to dig to find new and exciting streamers the less likely you'll stumble upon them. 

 

It is actually very applicable to the lootbox argument. Why does it ruin gaming? You can just jump to a different game, right? What happens when it's the norm and you suddenly can't just play a different game? Should you just give up? Just go with the flow and start spending all the dollars you can? It's time to act now if you want it to change before it becomes impossible to go back. If it wasn't Amazon backing them, I could see a scenario where Twitch would go the route of Myspace in 5 or 10 years if their top streamers get fed up with how things are handled. We're seeing similar sentiments on YouTube. YouTube has a big issue with DRM/copyright claims, advertising and 'venomous' content.

 

But of course, I do not expect you to accept this.

[Brooksie359]

15 hours ago, RagnarokDel said:

I would go the other way. Just embrace it in a NSFW section, reserved to twitch prime members so you know they're 18+

I mean, you're gay (or a lady) and that's fine but you are in the vast minority.

You don't have to be gay or a women to not like that type of stuff. I mean I would never watch that stuff because I don't see the point. But I really don't care what others do so as long as twitch is ok with it so am I. It is their platform and they have the right to do with as they want.

[apm]

my final conclusion is that the majority here doesnt know what they are talking about.

things mentioned here happened when the IRL section was introduced, streamers either got banned or got a warning.

people need to get over twitch as a pure gaming site, thats obviously not the route twitch is going atm.

[RagnarokDel]

9 hours ago, Brooksie359 said:

You don't have to be gay or a women to not like that type of stuff. I mean I would never watch that stuff because I don't see the point. But I really don't care what others do so as long as twitch is ok with it so am I. It is their platform and they have the right to do with as they want.

that wasnt my point at all but ok.

[Derangel]

10 hours ago, Trixanity said:

 

It shouldn't necessarily be banned but it shouldn't exist in the wrong category. You're advocating that streaming jumping jacks fits in the gaming section if there is a TV on the background with gameplay. If they move it out of gaming section and into a completely different place no one would care and these girls would lose a lot of new viewers because they need the eyes that browse the front page and we all know a 'mature audience' tag would keep that off the front page.

 

I'm not saying think of the children. I'm saying think of the platform. You can deliberately not click on the titty streams (if they're not doing bait-and-switch) but can you tell me why when I browse to look for new content that I'm potentially looking at 50% titty streams? That's why it's ruining things. Consider a library where everything is placed randomly. You want to find non-fiction books about nature but you end up finding a lot of fiction instead. You frustrate the user and they leave. Amazon will eventually ruin the platform when people stop taking it seriously and advertisers move away. Are you familiar with video response girls or are you not old enough for that? This is pretty much the same. History is repeating itself. Amazon will either have to put their foot down now or let it take over part of your site. YouTube eventually removed an entire function from the site because it was overrun by reply girls which was not the intention with the function. This is the same. It's an exploit, nothing more. The girls themselves even recognize that and there are multiple instances of it.

 

If we flip it around why would it be an issue if the titty streamers moved to a different section or even a different site? Because it wrecks their money hustle? Because it would most definitely put a damper on it. The turn-around on such girls is pretty damn fast. Just look at the porn industry. It's the 1% that makes it big, the rest are forgotten very quickly. That's why they want to remain on Twitch in the gaming section. They stand out right now and it's a novelty. Those who are banned refer to Twitter/Instagram/Patreon so they can continue their hustle after they've established some following. But it's still a mystery why some accounts get banned and some do not despite the content being the same (if we exclude the few who did intentional upskirt/nipslip to gain notoriety).

 

It boils down to that right now it's spoiling the pie. It takes eyes away from streamers who follow the rules and the spirit of the platform because the further you have to dig to find new and exciting streamers the less likely you'll stumble upon them. 

 

It is actually very applicable to the lootbox argument. Why does it ruin gaming? You can just jump to a different game, right? What happens when it's the norm and you suddenly can't just play a different game? Should you just give up? Just go with the flow and start spending all the dollars you can? It's time to act now if you want it to change before it becomes impossible to go back. If it wasn't Amazon backing them, I could see a scenario where Twitch would go the route of Myspace in 5 or 10 years if their top streamers get fed up with how things are handled. We're seeing similar sentiments on YouTube. YouTube has a big issue with DRM/copyright claims, advertising and 'venomous' content.

 

But of course, I do not expect you to accept this.

Outside of kids and the camgirls themselves I don't think too many people would have a problem with Twitch sectioning that stuff off. The real question is how do you do it in a way that is fair to everyone. The girls aren't breaking any rules so they shouldn't be punished for using the platform within the bounds of the ToS and people of age should not be punished because they want to watch them. A simple age gate is absolute bare minimum and no real barrier to entry, but requiring a payment account be attached isn't fair either.

 

People love to claim that they aren't getting views because of titty streamers but I don't believe it for one second. People don't get views simply because they're not able to build their brand. Even without those women those channels still wouldn't get views because they don't have a good way to attract them. A good friend of mine is someone I'd say is a great LPer and streamer. He doesn't get nearly the attention he deserves and it has nothing to do with women flaunting their assets. The same is true of every single unnoticed channel. There is a ton of competition out there and unless you can build your own brand and draw in more fans you're never going to get big. The market for LPs might be large, but it isn't unlimited. Same with every other kind of channel.

 

There will never be a situation where all games have loot boxes and there will never be a situation where Twitch is nothing but titty streamers. Arguing such unrealistic, almost paranoid, extreme scenarios does not help your (mostly valid) point. We're seeing people get pissed at Youtube, but no one is leaving. All of YT's competition keeps dying off due to not being able to make the money needed to stay afloat. As much as people hate YT, they're not going anywhere. Without Amazon, Twitch would probably already be dead. There is no way the company could keep up its current pace without the backing of a company like Amazon.

[FratStar]

21 hours ago, Pintend said:

The problem is that Twitch has VERY clear double standards on this rule in regards to the 'titty streamers' and other Twitch users and how Twitch staff basically protect these 'titty streamers' simply because they happen to be into the 'titty streamers' and the fact that the staff either ignore the reports or say it is within the terms of service is the problem here.

Sadly it seems everyone is glossing over that point. All the press I've seen around this hasn't been fixated on the girls. It has been about twitch's uneven enforcement on many primarily male streamers for even criticizing that type of content (not even attacking particular streamers just voicing their opinions overall).
Banning them for 24 hours and even a week, but then turning around and allowing people to have "accidental nip-slips" and even a chick "masturbating" on stream and that's only a 24 hour ban......That's the problem. I could give two shits about what these streamers do it is about how twitch is dealing with it.

 

It's clear that they favor one group and not the other.

[Trixanity]

6 hours ago, Derangel said:

Outside of kids and the camgirls themselves I don't think too many people would have a problem with Twitch sectioning that stuff off. The real question is how do you do it in a way that is fair to everyone. The girls aren't breaking any rules so they shouldn't be punished for using the platform within the bounds of the ToS and people of age should not be punished because they want to watch them. A simple age gate is absolute bare minimum and no real barrier to entry, but requiring a payment account be attached isn't fair either.

 

People love to claim that they aren't getting views because of titty streamers but I don't believe it for one second. People don't get views simply because they're not able to build their brand. Even without those women those channels still wouldn't get views because they don't have a good way to attract them. A good friend of mine is someone I'd say is a great LPer and streamer. He doesn't get nearly the attention he deserves and it has nothing to do with women flaunting their assets. The same is true of every single unnoticed channel. There is a ton of competition out there and unless you can build your own brand and draw in more fans you're never going to get big. The market for LPs might be large, but it isn't unlimited. Same with every other kind of channel.

 

There will never be a situation where all games have loot boxes and there will never be a situation where Twitch is nothing but titty streamers. Arguing such unrealistic, almost paranoid, extreme scenarios does not help your (mostly valid) point. We're seeing people get pissed at Youtube, but no one is leaving. All of YT's competition keeps dying off due to not being able to make the money needed to stay afloat. As much as people hate YT, they're not going anywhere. Without Amazon, Twitch would probably already be dead. There is no way the company could keep up its current pace without the backing of a company like Amazon.

So what you're saying is that all the companies pulling advertising from YouTube and big players moving off the platform (or try to move their presence elsewhere) due to issues with content despite it being a small portion is not an issue? Because Twitch is going in that direction. I'm not claiming YouTube is dying. It's too mainstream and too big to fail but that doesn't mean it doesn't change the way the platform will work going forward or spoil the platform for both the audience and the creator. If you put up too many obstacles some will consider it not worth it to stick around (this obviously doesn't refer to the casual browsing but actual subscribers and fans of certain creators for example). That's the worry that people have and that is coming to life there and eventually Twitch. The only counter to people leaving is money and fans. So the platforms need that to happen if they don't want things to change for the worse. So if they can get the money without advertisers and keep their top creators happy, then sure, you can have all the titty streamers, or other shitty content, you want.

 

It's not paranoid in the slightest. You simply don't shit where you eat. You don't mix raw veggies with raw meat. Your platform won't survive putting what some consider soft pornography on the front page if you try to go mainstream. I don't consider it pornography myself. I couldn't give a shit what these girls do. But to monetize the platform you need to tread carefully. YouTube is once again a prime example.

 

You argue that titty streamers don't take away from anyone else. To a certain degree I actually agree but you still get the issue of people don't want to shop around. If they stumble upon that first and stay there because you're already subscribed to a bunch of other streamers, so you're not digging around to page 4 to get to that one guy who truly delivers then you have a problem. Some just want entertainment no matter the form and I'd say titty streamers definitely cater to that - why else would people go to watch game streaming but stay for a push-up bra? It's just the human brain drunk behind the wheel all over again.

 

And maybe you're biased about your streamer friend. Maybe he's just not as good as you think? To make it big in streaming you need personality, charisma and stage presence. Hell, that goes for every part of the entertainment business. Why do you think Linus is popular? It's not because he knows more about tech than other YouTubers - quite the contrary. However tits trounce anything but the top-shelf streamers. It's easy to get into whereas you might take a while to really get into someone streaming games. It's the equivalent of reading a news article vs looking at the page 3 girl or reading the comic strip. It takes longer to digest and it takes longer to get fans.

 

I'd say if you lop titty streamers in between other content, you've failed. Whether the girls cooks naked with only an apron on in the cooking section or she has an Xbox controller in her cleavage in the gaming section you've dun goof'd. You give your content creators center stage. Simple as that. If you can't see how that's bad for business then I don't know what to tell you. I know you want to trivialize and downplay the importance of it but that's because you don't care one bit. I personally don't care too much about Twitch but sometimes you gotta pull out the weed one place before it spreads to another. Goes for a lot of things in life. Before you know it the entire garden is overgrown with weed.

And I should say just because I don't have a personal horse in this race doesn't mean it isn't important. Apathy is the worst thing you can have. 

 

But there really isn't much else to say about this topic. This is just going in circles and it has from the very beginning.

 

Edit: just recalled another business that's been taken over: cosplay. They probably attracted the big money in the first place but now you're not really making money or getting millions of views if you're not voluptuous with a pretty face. The argument would be that they're models, so of course the ones showing the most skin with the best body wins but some would say it used to be about the costume or more specifically the elaborate and detailed costumes; the accurate or creative costumes. I know what I'm more likely to be clicking on but the difference is I know and realize I'm part of the problem if and when I do so.