i3 8350K Coffee Lake on a Z170 Motherboard

[mr moose]

10 hours ago, asus killer said:

think of it this way, you could today buy a new generation CPU (and use it and get better performance) and in 6 months buy a new generation motherboard. Again you get choices as a consumer, better then some corporate overloads deciding for yourself what you should do and when with your money. Some CPU+Motherboard combos are really expensive.

 

Alternating between new CPU and New mobo every 6 Months equates to a new CPU/Mobo every year, which is extremely rare because the performance you get from such an upgrade isn't worth the cost.  They would have to be bringing out new features yearly that warranted the $$ spent on a new motherboard.   There is a reason why most people don't start thinking about upgrading their CPU until they get to the 4 year mark.

[thorhammerz]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

There is a reason why most people don't start thinking about upgrading their CPU until they get to the 4 year mark.

Excluding of course, for the people complaining about motherboard compatibility across CPU generations released less than a year apart from one another .

[mr moose]

9 minutes ago, thorhammerz said:

Excluding of course, for the people complaining about motherboard compatibility across CPU generations released less than a year apart from one another .

 

IKR, those 1%er's really do make a valid argument for everyone else to whinge about.   That's right, anyone willing to spend $400 for a less than 10% performance upgrade must be a poster child for why Intel is anti consumer...

[Bit_Guardian]

45 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Alternating between new CPU and New mobo every 6 Months equates to a new CPU/Mobo every year, which is extremely rare because the performance you get from such an upgrade isn't worth the cost.  They would have to be bringing out new features yearly that warranted the $$ spent on a new motherboard.   There is a reason why most people don't start thinking about upgrading their CPU until they get to the 4 year mark.

You could make the argument moving from Ivy Bridge to Haswell b/c of AVX2 if you had a highly vectorisable integer workload, and I can make the justification for AVX-512 as an HPC enthusiast myself, but yeah, it's tough to get massive improvements in the CPU space when you hit a certain point.

[asus killer]

49 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Alternating between new CPU and New mobo every 6 Months equates to a new CPU/Mobo every year, which is extremely rare because the performance you get from such an upgrade isn't worth the cost.  They would have to be bringing out new features yearly that warranted the $$ spent on a new motherboard.   There is a reason why most people don't start thinking about upgrading their CPU until they get to the 4 year mark.

what? if you have a Z170 released August 2015 (2 and a half years ago) with some CPU from back then and you wanted now to upgrade for a coffee lake CPU that's not changing CPU's every 6 months! What??!!

 

What i was saying was in continuity to what you said that there were no point buying a coffee lake for a old motherboard and missing out on some features. I just pointed out a cpu+motherboard combo is expensive and FOR EXAMPLE you could now buy the CPU use it on a Z170 and in 6 months or a 1 year or 2 (it's an example) get a new motherboard, the Z370. In the meantime you could still get a better performance out of the new cpu with the old motherboard

[pas008]

didnt intel say they were interested in soldering cpus to motherboards few yrs ago

 

 

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, asus killer said:

what? if you have a Z170 released August 2015 (2 and a half years ago) with some CPU from back then and you wanted now to upgrade for a coffee lake CPU that's not changing CPU's every 6 months! What??!!

 

What i was saying was in continuity to what you said that there were no point buying a coffee lake for a old motherboard and missing out on some features. I just pointed out a cpu+motherboard combo is expensive and FOR EXAMPLE you could now buy the CPU use it on a Z170 and in 6 months or a 1 year or 2 (it's an example) get a new motherboard, the Z370. In the meantime you could still get a better performance out of the new cpu with the old motherboard

Or just wait a year and get both. But the question still remains, why?  Even at 3 years with the expected performance gains of CL you would be spending somewhere around $400 dollars for less than 15% IPC (which for games and most end users is barely noticeable).  Even if you didn't have to upgrade the mobo, this is still not a very smart upgrade, if you have $400 to upgrade with, then a new GPU or maybe more ram would yield a better result.    

 

The problem here is not about compatability but about why is it an issue, because until now very few people on this forum would recommend upgrading your CPU in such a short time frame. In fact if you search back over the AMD threads where people had mobos that would support the later 8350's, 9350's, etc,  the advice was not to upgrade just the CPU.  This is because it simply isn't worthwhile.   If your system is getting old enough that an upgrade is required it is a safe bet that it already needs a full platform upgrade. 

[thorhammerz]

53 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

That's right, anyone willing to spend $400 for a less than 10% performance upgrade must be a poster child for why Intel is anti consumer...

Intel still loves them (or rather, their wallets) .

[asus killer]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Or just wait a year and get both. But the question still remains, why?  Even at 3 years with the expected performance gains of CL you would be spending somewhere around $400 dollars for less than 15% IPC (which for games and most end users is barely noticeable).  Even if you didn't have to upgrade the mobo, this is still not a very smart upgrade, if you have $400 to upgrade with, then a new GPU or maybe more ram would yield a better result.    

 

The problem here is not about compatability but about why is it an issue, because until now very few people on this forum would recommend upgrading your CPU in such a short time frame. In fact if you search back over the AMD threads where people had mobos that would support the later 8350's, 9350's, etc,  the advice was not to upgrade just the CPU.  This is because it simply isn't worthwhile.   If your system is getting old enough that an upgrade is required it is a safe bet that it already needs a full platform upgrade. 

times changed. You used the get the same CPU's year after year with some small clock increase. Now in less then a year you went full crazy, prices gone down and clocks and cores went up, of course it's worth it to upgrade the old CPU's in my opinion.

Stupid is to get stuck to the old CPU's. With this Intel made the old CPU's market went crazy, people are selling old 6th and 7th generation for prices that are not worth it just because when you do the math of buying a new CPU and motherboard it's too expensive so people are upgrading to i7 6700 and i7 7700 for example for the price of new coffe lake and ryzen CPU's with better performance.

[mr moose]

31 minutes ago, asus killer said:

times changed. You used the get the same CPU's year after year with some small clock increase. Now in less then a year you went full crazy, prices gone down and clocks and cores went up, of course it's worth it to upgrade the old CPU's in my opinion.

Stupid is to get stuck to the old CPU's. With this Intel made the old CPU's market went crazy, people are selling old 6th and 7th generation for prices that are not worth it just because when you do the math of buying a new CPU and motherboard it's too expensive so people are upgrading to i7 6700 and i7 7700 for example for the price of new coffe lake and ryzen CPU's with better performance.

 

Except that average upgrade cycles are getting further and further apart with the domestic average at 6 years and the enthusiast at 4-5 years.  This has been slowly growing and price/performance has had little to do with it, in fact quite the opposite, some prices have come down (when taking CPI into account) while upgrade cycles are still growing longer.

 

The reason this is the case has nothing to do with component improvement, but mainly to do with the elongating gap between software requirements and hardware performance. Many of us are still using 8 year old hardware with little issues. Until software comes along that requires more than 4 cores, haswell and Kabylake will be more than adequate and most people won't be on the upgrade train. 

 

Not too sure how you came to the conclusion that getting stuck with an old CPU is something to consider, it is not a new thing.  

[Bit_Guardian]

Still rocking a 2600K on my desktop. I'm not upgrading until I see an APU with AVX-512. I want all of my features in one spot on a platform I can thoroughly test.