Denon AVR-X4400H - Opinions requested!

[Popple2000]

Good evening,

I decided to upgrade my old Yamaha HTR-5990 to something a little more recent.

I got it for $1299CAD (reg $1999CAD) at best buy on a black Friday deal.

My current speaker setup is 7.1 with plans for a proper Atmos setup in the future.
Current speakers are as follows....

Fronts - Polk RTI-A9
Center - Infinity Primus PC250
Sub - Polk PSW125
Rears - Cerwin Vega E-208
Rear surrounds - Athena AS-B1-1

Receiver - Denon AVR-X4400H
TV - Vizio M65-D0

As you can see, I have a hodge podge of speakers I have attained over the years.
I am concerned that the receiver isn't strong enough for the A9's... Movies sound absolutely amazing but when I tried listening to some Bluetooth audio in stereo, the A9's sounded brutally under powered and seemed overall lacking in sound when comparing to how they were with my old Yamaha.
Should I be looking in another direction at that price point or do you guys think I got a decent deal and should maybe just get a separate amp for the A9's some time in the future.

Thanks in advance for any input, I am by no means an audiophile and am nervous I either don't have it setup correctly or have purchased the wrong receiver.

[johnt]

3 hours ago, Popple2000 said:

the A9's sounded brutally under powered and seemed overall lacking in sound when comparing to how they were with my old Yamaha.

What do you mean by this? What was "lacking" exactly? I need you to help me put your finger on it so I can give you better advice.

 

It is possible you have it setup incorrectly. The X4400 is an absolute beast. Answer these questions for me:

1. What is lacking from your listening experience?
2. Did you calibrate the speakers using the microphone they provided?
3. What is the crossover frequency set to?
4. Is the bass being directed to a subwoofer only or sub and front speakers?

But at the same time, I might be able to relate to what you're talking about. I bought the X3200 about a year or so ago upgrading from a Yamaha, and the first thing I noticed is how much brighter the Denon is compared to the Yamaha. Then I learned the Denon has better controlled highs, and the amp desperately needed a dedicated amplifier to provide enough bass to my speakers. And strangely my speakers are 98 dB sensitive. The X3200 couldn't keep up. I picked up a used Emotiva amplifier from CL, and the speakers absolutely rock the house now.

[Popple2000]

7 hours ago, JohnT said:

What do you mean by this? What was "lacking" exactly? I need you to help me put your finger on it so I can give you better advice.

 

It is possible you have it setup incorrectly. The X4400 is an absolute beast. Answer these questions for me:

1. What is lacking from your listening experience?
2. Did you calibrate the speakers using the microphone they provided?
3. What is the crossover frequency set to?
4. Is the bass being directed to a subwoofer only or sub and front speakers?

But at the same time, I might be able to relate to what you're talking about. I bought the X3200 about a year or so ago upgrading from a Yamaha, and the first thing I noticed is how much brighter the Denon is compared to the Yamaha. Then I learned the Denon has better controlled highs, and the amp desperately needed a dedicated amplifier to provide enough bass to my speakers. And strangely my speakers are 98 dB sensitive. The X3200 couldn't keep up. I picked up a used Emotiva amplifier from CL, and the speakers absolutely rock the house now.

Hey there,

Thanks so much for the reply.

I'm not sure how to best describe it...not rich and full sounding?

 

    1. Movies, nothing - they sound amazing. Music on the other hand.... not a nice deep rich sound like i'm used to and i'm pretty sure I even heard one of the A9's clip(I haven't turned it back up since.

    2. Yes I did use the mic they provided.

    3. I have no idea - I am not even sure where to look for that

    4. I am sorry to say that again, I am not certain and will have to look for that as well.

 

I can mostly relate to what you are saying here, it definitely sounds less muffled and way more clear. I just feel like for that kind of money... I'm not sure why I would still have to add another amp seeing as my 12 year old Yamaha pushed them just fine /shrug

 

That said, who doesn't want a dedicated amp am I right?

 

 

[Popple2000]

19 hours ago, JohnT said:

• What is the crossover frequency set to?
• Is the bass being directed to a subwoofer only or sub and front speakers?

Hey, sorry for the delay

I have attached what I believe you have requested.

I think having the fronts set to large would send them some bass as well?

Cheers!

[johnt]

It is generally best to set all of your speakers to a single crossover frequency, somewhere between 60 to 80 Hz is very common. You can leave your fronts set to full range, but your center should really be set to small. But to answer your question, setting speakers to large won't send them any "additional" bass, it will just prevent the system from redirecting the bass to the subwoofer.

 

I can't seem to find anything out of place with your settings.

 

Maybe it's time for an amp?? My recommendation would be to look used, ask to hear it in use before purchasing, and look for a multi channel amp. You might even look for more than one multi-channel amp so you can bi-amp your front speakers.

 

 

[johnt]

Oh that is one thing you can try, if you haven't already. If you aren't using all of your speaker outputs, your receiver should let you connect two separate wires to your front speakers to bi-amp it. This will power the woofers and tweeters separately. This is one way to get a little more oomph in the lower frequencies. Just remember to disconnect any metal or connectors between the input terminals of your speakers.

[Popple2000]

18 hours ago, JohnT said:

It is generally best to set all of your speakers to a single crossover frequency, somewhere between 60 to 80 Hz is very common. You can leave your fronts set to full range, but your center should really be set to small. But to answer your question, setting speakers to large won't send them any "additional" bass, it will just prevent the system from redirecting the bass to the subwoofer.

 

I can't seem to find anything out of place with your settings.

 

Maybe it's time for an amp?? My recommendation would be to look used, ask to hear it in use before purchasing, and look for a multi channel amp. You might even look for more than one multi-channel amp so you can bi-amp your front speakers.

 

 

Hello again!

 

So, I found the setting to change bass from just LFE to LFE+FRONT and wow, what a difference! It's night and day.

I set the center back to small however I have not changed the frequencies yet. You suggest all speakers to be at 60? 80? 75? lol

 

On the aspect of bi-amping, from what i've read, the consensus seems to be that because the whole unit is on the same power supply, there won't be any noticeable sound gain... can you confirm or correct this consensus?

 

One last question... with HDMI 2.1 right around the corner... would it better for me to return this thing and hook my Yamaha back up until Denon releases something with HDMI 2.1?

[johnt]

7 hours ago, Popple2000 said:

So, I found the setting to change bass from just LFE to LFE+FRONT and wow, what a difference! It's night and day.

This will make a huge difference in movies, but I suspect something is funny if you are experiencing an improvement in music. Music typically has left and right channels. Do you have an INFO button on your remote? See what your settings are when listening to music.

 

7 hours ago, Popple2000 said:

You suggest all speakers to be at 60? 80? 75? lol

Try 80 Hz to start, and if it's too much, then lower it to 60 Hz. 

 

7 hours ago, Popple2000 said:

On the aspect of bi-amping, from what i've read, the consensus seems to be that because the whole unit is on the same power supply, there won't be any noticeable sound gain... can you confirm or correct this consensus?

The argument you've heard is logical, but the power supply is more powerful than what it can deliver to any one channel at a time. The two separate signals it is sending to the same speaker should, in theory, have more power than a single wire connection. I don't know if you will hear much of a difference as the trouble here is midtones and bass, which most receivers have a hard time generating.

 

7 hours ago, Popple2000 said:

One last question... with HDMI 2.1 right around the corner... would it better for me to return this thing and hook my Yamaha back up until Denon releases something with HDMI 2.1?

That really depends on how you operate. If you aren't happy with the X4400, then by all means, return it and wait for newer models with HDMI 2.1 support. But I will point out that HDMI 2.1 isn't really something you will be needing in the near future, unless you plan on gaming at your television. Good luck funding a video card that can push 4k HDR games at 60 fps without drops. Plus, the benefits from 4k, HDR, and high refresh rates are just being adopted very, very slowly. It's not like DVDs and blu-rays that were a significant improvement over their predecessors. The updates to the AV world have been very incremental, insignificant, slow, and nobody is fricking supporting any of it lol. Netflix has the biggest 4k HDR library, and it is ruined by compression. It all feels like a joke at this point. Honestly I don't think HDMI 2.1 will be necessary, or affordable, until the year 2020 at the absolute earliest. By the time you get an HDMI 2.1 device, you will need HDMI 2.3 to get around the DRM  I'm forgetting about HDMI 2.1. I've got tv and movies to enjoy!

[kokotik256]

Hi,i have Denom avrx4400 with audio monitor 6 bronze 5.1,the problem it's I didn't hear a bass from front tower speaker's,I have try use and configured crossower but without no changed sound,when it's  playing music on front speakers and try putt volum up nearly 70, front speakers going to scrap&buzzing sound quality,I don't understand speaker's on price 1500£ are scrap qualify???I thing my Harmankardon onyx are much better on bass than monitor audio bronze 6...(((...

Can you give me some tips or how to configure front speakers to have and feel bass from front speaker's???thanks...

[johnt]

3 hours ago, kokotik256 said:

Hi,i have Denom avrx4400 with audio monitor 6 bronze 5.1,the problem it's I didn't hear a bass from front tower speaker's,I have try use and configured crossower but without no changed sound,when it's  playing music on front speakers and try putt volum up nearly 70, front speakers going to scrap&buzzing sound quality,I don't understand speaker's on price 1500£ are scrap qualify???I thing my Harmankardon onyx are much better on bass than monitor audio bronze 6...(((...

Can you give me some tips or how to configure front speakers to have and feel bass from front speaker's???thanks...

If you want more bass from your front speakers, you will need to change the setting in your receiver that redirects the bass signals to the subwoofer only. You will have to change it to subwoofer+front. Remember to keep your expectations in check. These are speakers and not subwoofers. Believe it or not, they are way too small to produce heavy amounts of tactile bass. Not to mention, your experience with bass is going to vary wildly based on the source material.

 

Look on page 231 of your instruction manual. Change the Subwoofer Mode to LFE+Main.

[kokotik256]

Hi JohnT,

First,thanks for tips??

I'm gona try to wire front speakers double like( Bi amp)with 79strand cable,maybe they will working much better,believe me,i have only treble and midrange from front speaker's,I know there are not to much bass,but from mine are coming only treble and mid range..i things,you know that speaker's are not expensive and are not Cheapest on market,bronze 6 are like Middle class so make me sad there are not that quality which I was demanded,thanks for answer ???

[johnt]

2 minutes ago, kokotik256 said:

Hi JohnT,

First,thanks for tips??

I'm gona try to wire front speakers double like( Bi amp)with 79strand cable,maybe they will working much better,believe me,i have only treble and midrange from front speaker's,I know there are not to much bass,but from mine are coming only treble and mid range..i things,you know that speaker's are not expensive and are not Cheapest on market,bronze 6 are like Middle class so make me sad there are not that quality which I was demanded,thanks for answer ???

I forgot to mention one more change you should make. Change your front speakers to "large" or "full range." By doing the first change and this one, you should start hearing bass from your front speakers.