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PLEASE STOP COMPARING $500 CONSOLES TO $500 PCs

Is it fair to compare a $500 PC and a $500 Console?  

192 members have voted

  1. 1. Is it fair to compare a $500 PC and a $500 Console?

    • Yes
      116
    • No
      76


7 minutes ago, ahmedhara said:

Most of them can me emulated though and most of those operating systems can be run inside your operating system as a virtual machine

No they can't.  While this could work on SOME games, especially those not relying on hardware acceleration, but existing emulation and VM tech is not a magic bullet.  This is an actual problem for preservation of PC gaming.  You can get Windows 3.1 or 95 running in a VM sure but you aren't going to be emulation a whole Voodoo 3 or other early hardware accelerator.  The emulation technology for that currently does not exist.

 

There is basically a 'hole' spanning vaguely about 15 years of PC Gaming where the only solution is to build yourself a retro gaming PC with an old operating system and old hardware if you want to continue to experience many games.

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36 minutes ago, emosun said:

I have 25 year old gpu's that will outlive a brand new xbox. new means nothing

No you don't

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1 minute ago, ahmedhara said:

No you don't

sure do , you think gpu's didnt exist 25 years ago or do us old guys gotta give you a history lesson.

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5 minutes ago, emosun said:

sure do , you think gpu's didnt exist 25 years ago or do us old guys gotta give you a history lesson.

Yea they did, but they we're rendering 8bit textures back then xD And were they even using pci lanes back then. I bet you anything they're not natively supported by windows 10

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2 minutes ago, ahmedhara said:

Yea they did, but they we're rendering 8bit textures back then xD And were they even using pci lanes back then. I bet you anything they're not natively supported by windows 10

yep , did you have a point to make or....?

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3 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

No they can't.  While this could work on SOME games, especially those not relying on hardware acceleration, but existing emulation and VM tech is not a magic bullet.  This is an actual problem for preservation of PC gaming.  You can get Windows 3.1 or 95 running in a VM sure but you aren't going to be emulation a whole Voodoo 3 or other early hardware accelerator.  The emulation technology for that currently does not exist.

 

There is basically a 'hole' spanning vaguely about 15 years of PC Gaming where the only solution is to build yourself a retro gaming PC with an old operating system and old hardware if you want to continue to experience many games.

Yea, but can an xbox one run xbox 360 games or games from the original xbox? And a lot of the games you'd actually wanna play can be emulated

 

3 hours ago, emosun said:

yep , did you have a point to make or....?

I meant that a 25 year old gpu can't beat an xbox one x no matter how expensive it was back then. Wait, did you mean 25 year-old figuratively or literally?

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As a related note, Windows 10 actually has no support for floppy drives.  They just don't run in it.  Now you can use a USB Floppy drive but then you're using a USB controller that the PC only see's as a USB Mass Storage device.  If you just need to read or write to a floppy that's mint, that's fine, but a lot of the deeper functions that a native controller would offer aren't there.  And that's just for 3.5" floppies.  For 5/25" floppy drives you need highly specialist controllers that are primarily designed and sold for data recovery and forensics.

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Just now, ahmedhara said:

I meant that a 25 year old gpu can't beat an xbox one x no matter how expensive it was back then.

i agree

I don't recall saying anything to the contrary

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2 minutes ago, ahmedhara said:

 

Yea, but can an xbox one run xbox 360 games or games from the original xbox? And a lot of the games you'd actually wanna play can be emulated

Now we're moving the goal post.  We started with 'A PC can run ANY PC software from the last 40 years' to 'Oh well, you can run MORE older games than a console would so that's good.'

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3 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

As a related note, Windows 10 actually has no support for floppy drives.  They just don't run in it.  Now you can use a USB Floppy drive but then you're using a USB controller that the PC only see's as a USB Mass Storage device.  If you just need to read or write to a floppy that's mint, that's fine, but a lot of the deeper functions that a native controller would offer aren't there.  And that's just for 3.5" floppies.  For 5/25" floppy drives you need highly specialist controllers that are primarily designed and sold for data recovery and forensics.

 Your point? Do you still use floppy disks. No? Surprised no one. Why would you wanna use a floppy drive anyways? And that mass storage thing can be worked around easily

 

3 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

Now we're moving the goal post.  We started with 'A PC can run ANY PC software from the last 40 years' to 'Oh well, you can run MORE older games than a console would so that's good.'

I never said ALL, the other guy/girl did!

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22 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

This is patently false.  There are lots, and lots, and lots of PC Games that will flat out not run on a modern PC.  For the DOS era there's DOSbox but even DOSbox can require very specific configurations for individual games to run correctly.  There's a unpleasant number of PC Windows games running between the Windows 3.X through to the Windows XP era that just won't run on a current PC because there are no developers outputting patches to keep them running on contemporary OSs.  Some games get fan made patches or even entire engine rebuilds sure but this is really only for games that have cult followings.  You truly can't say 'A PC can run any game on the PC platform from the last 40 years'.

Even games made with DirectDraw have performance issues on Windows 8 and 10 machines without some wonky translation driver that gives my Haswell cpu a good work out. *silently curses Microsoft under breath*

 

Old game support past year 2000 or so is a tad spotty, though consider that compatibility is generally quite solid since the PS2/GC era. Compared to contemporary consoles, 17 or so years is still very good. And PC's have that (not so) secret weapon called emulation, meaning many old console games can be played in HD resolutions without waiting (and paying) for a remaster. though admittedly, this seems to have stalled out at the PS2/GC era.

 

edit: I seem to have missed an argument apparently.

My eyes see the past…

My camera lens sees the present…

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8 minutes ago, emosun said:

i agree

I don't recall saying anything to the contrary

You did

 

18 minutes ago, ahmedhara said:
49 minutes ago, emosun said:

I have 25 year old gpu's that will outlive a brand new xbox. new means nothing

 

 

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IMO, I found the comparison to the $500 computer very enlightening. As someone who dislikes Xbox and PlayStation for their closed eco-systems and their effects on the gaming industry (thinking of games like watchdogs that got graphically downgraded), this comparison showed that in a way the one x and the ps4 pro have pulled ahead of the PC. Being able to game a 4K for $500 but not on a PC is a compelling argument to recommend a console. It also means that game developers will have less reason to nerf their graphics to cater to their mostly non-techy user base which is a win in my book. My only concern is, with the eventual price drops on 4K capable graphics cards in the next few GPU generations, will the consoles continue to be able to provide current gen graphics at a price that the general public will buy. That is why I see the comparison to similarly priced computers as useful, it is a measuring stick of the current state of affairs.

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I will never understand the elitism of of the PCMR (of which I absolutely hate that term). Why do people care so much what others spend their money on? If someone wants a console, let them have one. Don't try to make them regret their purchase simply because you don't like consoles or don't understand them. The comparison between PC and console needs to stop, they are different use cases and different audiences. you're basically saying that anything that isn't a PC is a waste of money.

 

some people don't know how or don't want to have to tinker with a computer, they want to be able to sit down and know that it's going to work, they don't have to worry about hardware requirements, optimization, driver updates, graphical settings.

 

I know you're proud of your amazing PC and you want to show it off but don't have to act like an idiot and insult or tell people their wrong for wanting to own a console. grow the hell up.

🌲🌲🌲

 

 

 

◒ ◒ 

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Just now, ahmedhara said:

You did

perhaps I'm blind where does it say 25 year old gpus are faster than an xbox

 

where does it say 25 years gpu's out perform an xbox

 

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Just now, ahmedhara said:

 Your point? Do you still use floppy disks. No? Surprised no one.

Actually, I am in fact working on a restoration and modernization of the same model of desktop PC I got in 1999 and the objectives include getting the original floppy and GamePort's working in Windows 10 which will require the internal installation of USB adapters for both.  We tested the floppy drive on a vintage 486 and the darn thing still works.

 

 

That thing where you asked me if if I still used floppies and then immediately answered 'No' for me?  You look kinda silly for doing that now. :)

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6 minutes ago, Sierra Fox said:

I will never understand the elitism of of the PCMR (of which I absolutely hate that term). Why do people care so much what others spend their money on? If someone wants a console, let them have one. Don't try to make them regret their purchase simply because you don't like consoles or don't understand them. The comparison between PC and console needs to stop, they are different use cases and different audiences. you're basically saying that anything that isn't a PC is a waste of money.

 

some people don't know how or don't want to have to tinker with a computer, they want to be able to sit down and know that it's going to work, they don't have to worry about hardware requirements, optimization, driver updates, graphical settings.

 

I know you're proud of your amazing PC and you want to show it off but don't have to act like an idiot and insult or tell people their wrong for wanting to own a console. grow the hell up.

DO you know what elitism even is? If we just said that consoles suck, there wouldn't be any comparing

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6 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Now we're moving the goal post.  We started with 'A PC can run ANY PC software from the last 40 years' to 'Oh well, you can run MORE older games than a console would so that's good.'

nope you initially miss quoted me and took "can run" out of the equation

 

 


 

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9 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Actually, I am in fact working on a restoration and modernization of the same model of desktop PC I got in 1999 and the objectives include getting the original floppy and GamePort's working in Windows 10 which will require the internal installation of USB adapters for both.  We tested the floppy drive on a vintage 486 and the darn thing still works.

 

 

That thing where you asked me if if I still used floppies and then immediately answered 'No' for me?  You look kinda silly for doing that now. :)

I just feel dumb right now xD But that doesn't knock my point down. Almost no one uses floppy disks anymore and, not to be offensive, they are obsolete. Yea, they stored kilobytes upon kilobytes of data in their time, but now, they're pretty pointless (Or I'm just blind and don't see a use case for them)

Edited by ahmedhara
Made a mistake, bling instead of blind
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34 minutes ago, emosun said:

you have to consider every possible bit of software the pc can run/emulate plus every game and software that exists on that platform for the past 40 years or so.

this is what i typed

if it couldn't run why would i include it. it CAN do more , you including games it cannot run is just trying to find fault with a statement. just a weak argument I'm sorry but please read before commenting.

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6 minutes ago, emosun said:

this is what i typed

if it couldn't run why would i include it. it CAN do more , you including games it cannot run is just trying to find fault with a statement. just a weak argument I'm sorry but please read before commenting.

Ok, but who are you talking to exactly, and yes, I'm literally asking that. No sarcasm or nothin'

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1 minute ago, ahmedhara said:

Ok, but who are you talking to exactly, and yes, I'm literally asking that. No sarcasm or nothin'

this other dude

I can't multiquote across pages for some reason the text editor freaks out and forgets what i typed. 

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2012 - ($299) Wii U
2013 - ($399) Playstation 4
2013 - ($499) Xbox one
2016 - ($399) Playstation 4 Pro
2016 - ($299) Xbox One S
2017 - ($499) Xbox One X
2017 - ($299) Nintendo Switch
     - ($300) $60 per year for online multiplayer

Total of $2993 in 5 years.

 

Even if you only buy half of the consoles on this list, its still expensive.

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6 minutes ago, Kimmaz said:

2012 - ($299) Wii U
2013 - ($399) Playstation 4
2013 - ($499) Xbox one
2016 - ($399) Playstation 4 Pro
2016 - ($299) Xbox One S
2017 - ($499) Xbox One X
2017 - ($299) Nintendo Switch
     - ($300) $60 per year for online multiplayer

Total of $2993 in 5 years.

 

Even if you only buy half of the consoles on this list, its still expensive.

 Yea, but realistically, no one will buy ALL of them

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1 minute ago, ahmedhara said:

I just feel dumb right now xD But that doesn't knock my point down. Almost no one uses floppy disks anymore and, not to be offensive, they are obsolete. Yea, they stored kilobytes upon kilobytes of data in their time, but now, they're pretty pointless (Or I'm just bling and don't see a use case for them)

For history's sake.

 

It's an honest to god tragedy that I can't fire up and play around with this old copy of Christmas For Windows (THIS IS A REAL THING) that I own nearly as easily as I can emulate Pokemon Yellow.  There is so much classic PC software that is slowly being lost.  You can find torrents for the entire libraries of console games meanwhile so much history of the PC is rotting away on shelves and in boxes in attics, with their media not properly imaged and preserved in an accessible venue.

 

 

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