Jump to content

Buyer Beware, Microsoft says Surface Book 2's Power Issues is the product working as intended and will continue to ship inadequate wattage charger

AlTech

Recently reviewers got their hands on the Surface Book 2 and noticed that on the 15 inch model that it is possible to cause so much power to be required by the system that the charger by itself may not fully provide enough power to charge the laptop and the laptop may end up losing charge if the battery needs to kick in to keep the laptop powered on.

 

This is a big issue especially considering this could be easily remedied by providing a higher wattage charger.

 

This was also sort of the case with previous Surface Devices like the Surface Pro 4 i7 where it was possible to cause the system to draw more power than what the charger was giving with the included base charger.

 

Thankfully the Pro 4 was able to use the 65w SurfaceConnect charger and that fixed the issue on that.

 

But it appears Microsoft is now claiming that for the Surface Book 2, the product is working as intended. Which is to say, Microsoft doesn't intend for people to use the laptop in the most demanding use cases all the time.

The issue can only be replicated on the Surface Book 2 i7 + GTX 1060.

 

It's simply down to wattage and I'm confused as to why they haven't fixed it unless the charger itself can't deliver more than 100-110 watts.

 

iirc the Surface Book 2's charger is 102 watts.

 

This is what Microsoft had to say:

Quote

Surface Book 2 was designed to deliver unmatched power and performance for anyone who needs a powerful machine to work and create, making it a great option for STEM professionals (designers, developers, engineers). The Surface Book 2 Power Mode Slider is provided as a means to give the user control over the range of performance and battery life. In some intense, prolonged gaming scenarios with Power Mode Slider set to 'best performance' the battery may discharge while connected to the power supply provided in-box with Surface Book 2. However, through power management design, the battery will never drain entirely, ensuring that users are able to keep working, creating or gaming.

 

Quote from Source:

Quote

ith a Core i7 processor and NVIDIA GTX 1060 graphics, the Surface Book 2 is a powerful machine for its size. And while that enables it to power some high-end games at top quality, that also comes with considerable power draw; too much, as it turns out, for its included charger to supply. For anyone experiencing the issue, it's reassuring to know that it isn't the result of any defects, but it's still limiting.

 

Honestly, this is such a joke. Why is it so hard for them to confess that their charger doesn't provide enough juice?

 

Source: https://www.windowscentral.com/surface-book-2-power-behavior-under-heavy-load-working-intended-microsoft-says

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

How to setup MSI Afterburner OSD | How to make your AMD Radeon GPU more efficient with Radeon Chill | (Probably) Why LMG Merch shipping to the EU is expensive

Oneplus 6 (Early 2023 to present) | HP Envy 15" x360 R7 5700U (Mid 2021 to present) | Steam Deck (Late 2022 to present)

 

Mid 2023 AlTech Desktop Refresh - AMD R7 5800X (Mid 2023), XFX Radeon RX 6700XT MBA (Mid 2021), MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon (Early 2018), 32GB DDR4-3200 (16GB x2) (Mid 2022

Noctua NH-D15 (Early 2021), Corsair MP510 1.92TB NVMe SSD (Mid 2020), beQuiet Pure Wings 2 140mm x2 & 120mm x1 (Mid 2023),

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Consumer Reports stopped recommending these things a long time ago. 

 

Don't buy Surface Products. 

Laptop: 2019 16" MacBook Pro i7, 512GB, 5300M 4GB, 16GB DDR4 | Phone: iPhone 13 Pro Max 128GB | Wearables: Apple Watch SE | Car: 2007 Ford Taurus SE | CPU: R7 5700X | Mobo: ASRock B450M Pro4 | RAM: 32GB 3200 | GPU: ASRock RX 5700 8GB | Case: Apple PowerMac G5 | OS: Win 11 | Storage: 1TB Crucial P3 NVME SSD, 1TB PNY CS900, & 4TB WD Blue HDD | PSU: Be Quiet! Pure Power 11 600W | Display: LG 27GL83A-B 1440p @ 144Hz, Dell S2719DGF 1440p @144Hz | Cooling: Wraith Prism | Keyboard: G610 Orion Cherry MX Brown | Mouse: G305 | Audio: Audio Technica ATH-M50X & Blue Snowball | Server: 2018 Core i3 Mac mini, 128GB SSD, Intel UHD 630, 16GB DDR4 | Storage: OWC Mercury Elite Pro Quad (6TB WD Blue HDD, 12TB Seagate Barracuda, 1TB Crucial SSD, 2TB Seagate Barracuda HDD)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

for such an expensive product as well...

I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play no games atm & watch anime at 1080p(finally) watch YT and write essays...  nothing, it just sits there collecting dust...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

just remove the percentage from the battery indicator, that should resolve the issue

One day I will be able to play Monster Hunter Frontier in French/Italian/English on my PC, it's just a matter of time... 4 5 6 7 8 9 years later: It's finally coming!!!

Phones: iPhone 4S/SE | LG V10 | Lumia 920

Laptops: Macbook Pro 15" (mid-2012) | Compaq Presario V6000

 

<>EVs are bad, they kill the planet and remove freedoms too some/<>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

just remove the percentage from the battery indicator, that should resolve the issue

-_-.

 

On Surface devices there's already the issue of not being able to cap CPU usage in Power Management and the inability to create proper power plans.....

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

How to setup MSI Afterburner OSD | How to make your AMD Radeon GPU more efficient with Radeon Chill | (Probably) Why LMG Merch shipping to the EU is expensive

Oneplus 6 (Early 2023 to present) | HP Envy 15" x360 R7 5700U (Mid 2021 to present) | Steam Deck (Late 2022 to present)

 

Mid 2023 AlTech Desktop Refresh - AMD R7 5800X (Mid 2023), XFX Radeon RX 6700XT MBA (Mid 2021), MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon (Early 2018), 32GB DDR4-3200 (16GB x2) (Mid 2022

Noctua NH-D15 (Early 2021), Corsair MP510 1.92TB NVMe SSD (Mid 2020), beQuiet Pure Wings 2 140mm x2 & 120mm x1 (Mid 2023),

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

On Surface devices there's already the issue of not being able to cap CPU usage in Power Management and the inability to create proper power plans

WHY REMOVE THE ONLY GOOD FEATURE IN THAT OS?

One day I will be able to play Monster Hunter Frontier in French/Italian/English on my PC, it's just a matter of time... 4 5 6 7 8 9 years later: It's finally coming!!!

Phones: iPhone 4S/SE | LG V10 | Lumia 920

Laptops: Macbook Pro 15" (mid-2012) | Compaq Presario V6000

 

<>EVs are bad, they kill the planet and remove freedoms too some/<>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, suicidalfranco said:

WHY REMOVE THE ONLY GOOD FEATURE IN THAT OS?

Cos they're trying to copy Apple and the single power plan is basically as follows:

 

If on AC: Turbo even if it's for hours at a time.

If on Battery: Turbo for like 30 seconds and then go back down to low power.

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

How to setup MSI Afterburner OSD | How to make your AMD Radeon GPU more efficient with Radeon Chill | (Probably) Why LMG Merch shipping to the EU is expensive

Oneplus 6 (Early 2023 to present) | HP Envy 15" x360 R7 5700U (Mid 2021 to present) | Steam Deck (Late 2022 to present)

 

Mid 2023 AlTech Desktop Refresh - AMD R7 5800X (Mid 2023), XFX Radeon RX 6700XT MBA (Mid 2021), MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon (Early 2018), 32GB DDR4-3200 (16GB x2) (Mid 2022

Noctua NH-D15 (Early 2021), Corsair MP510 1.92TB NVMe SSD (Mid 2020), beQuiet Pure Wings 2 140mm x2 & 120mm x1 (Mid 2023),

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the only reasonable surface product is the Surface Pro, nothing else seems viable or worth Microsoft's branding tax.

 

Surface laptop? carpet keyboard and impossible to repair or upgrade. Not to mention it ships with Windows 10 S.

Surface mouse? not ergonomic in any capacity.

Surface book? Although it looks decent, I can't imagine why it's necessary over the Surface Pro. It's far too expensive for what you're getting. And again, not repairable or upgradeable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

iirc the Surface Book 2's charger is 102 watts.

Kinda sad for a $2,499 product to only bundle that amount, especially considering Dell bundles 130w chargers for weaker and significantly cheaper laptops. (Example being the Dell 5577 often on sale for $699 and utilizing a GTX 1050 non-ti) Only justification I see is having a single unified charger, but even that is a weak one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never been a huge fan of Microsoft.But the looks of surface book is good. That's it .Nothing good other than overpriced hardware.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Copying Apple in 2017:

 

step 1) take everything that is bad about Apple's version

step 2) take nothing of what is good about Apple's version

step 3) slap on an overinflated price tag

step 4) ?????

step 5) profit go home, you're drunk.

 

Sauron'stm Surface book 2 final score: garbage--/10. Lower than Sauron'stm 2015 Macbook's score of garbage-/10, hence breaking the previous low record.

 

Microsoft and Google, either realize you only have a customer base because you used to do things differently from Apple, or prepare to be left behind as hardware companies. NOBODY goes to Microsoft to buy a Macbook with less reliable software. NOBODY goes to Google to buy an iPhone with a flawed screen. The surface/pro line gathered moderate success due to it being relatively affordable, given the hardware and digitizer support, and being functionality driven. The surface book line is nothing of the sort.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, tjcater said:

Kinda sad for a $2,499 product to only bundle that amount, especially considering Dell bundles 130w chargers for weaker and significantly cheaper laptops. (Example being the Dell 5577 often on sale for $699 and utilizing a GTX 1050 non-ti) Only justification I see is having a single unified charger, but even that is a weak one.

Still got a couple of laptops that shipped with 90W and 65W chargers, when under full load the components physically can't use more than half of the available wattage during a stress test.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is peak Microsoft, an oversight that ruins pretty much the entire product...

 

Shame, even with the shortcomings and the stupid price, i kinda liked the 15 inch SB2, a decent quad core + gtx1060 and a shitload of battery AND still being decently portable should be a freaking win, but when it can't use that power effectively its horrible... again what a shame.

this is one of the greatest thing that has happened to me recently, and it happened on this forum, those involved have my eternal gratitude http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/198850-update-alex-got-his-moto-g2-lets-get-a-moto-g-for-alexgoeshigh-unofficial/ :')

i use to have the second best link in the world here, but it died ;_; its a 404 now but it will always be here

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Garbage device, I never really understood the use case or attraction...

 

Moreover:

3 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

On Surface devices there's already the issue of not being able to cap CPU usage in Power Management and the inability to create proper power plans.....

Why should you have to? Given that in this particular situation one would essentially be applying this as a 'workaround'.

The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Nuluvius said:

Garbage device, I never really understood the use case or attraction...

It looks nice, it's powerful enough. Screen is gorgeous. The ability to use a pen is nice.

 

The main problem has been the price and the QC.

Quote

Moreover:

Why should you have to? Given that in this particular situation one would essentially be applying this as a 'workaround'.

Because power management on the Surface can be either really good or really bad.

 

If it's the former then that's fine if it's the latter than I'm really not in the mood.

 

When I had my Lenovo U41-70, the main thing which saved that laptop's dreadful battery life was when I created a custom power plan which extended the usable battery life to 4-6 hours from the 2-3 that it originally was.

 

With the Surface, because it supports InstantGo (Aka ConnectedStandby) users can't screw around with Power Plans on those devices.

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

How to setup MSI Afterburner OSD | How to make your AMD Radeon GPU more efficient with Radeon Chill | (Probably) Why LMG Merch shipping to the EU is expensive

Oneplus 6 (Early 2023 to present) | HP Envy 15" x360 R7 5700U (Mid 2021 to present) | Steam Deck (Late 2022 to present)

 

Mid 2023 AlTech Desktop Refresh - AMD R7 5800X (Mid 2023), XFX Radeon RX 6700XT MBA (Mid 2021), MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon (Early 2018), 32GB DDR4-3200 (16GB x2) (Mid 2022

Noctua NH-D15 (Early 2021), Corsair MP510 1.92TB NVMe SSD (Mid 2020), beQuiet Pure Wings 2 140mm x2 & 120mm x1 (Mid 2023),

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think a weak power bring is enough to call the device garbage.

Sure it's bad and it's one of those things you just don't expect to be an issue on a device with such a large price tag. But if it's only a problem on the highest specced 15" model, and only when you run some intensive program then chances are it will affect a very small number of people.

There are plenty of other reasons why you shouldn't buy the Surface Book which takes much higher priority if you ask me. The price being the most obvious one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

"Guys, why not, you know, TURN OFF, YOUR LAPTOP, AND, LET IT, CHARGE. Like what dad used to do for their knockias?"

*begins a 3d render overnight*

*wakes up to find laptop is dead and render failed."

 

Me: "Dammit!"

My eyes see the past…

My camera lens sees the present…

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Nuluvius said:

Garbage device, I never really understood the use case or attraction...

 

Moreover:

Why should you have to? Given that in this particular situation one would essentially be applying this as a 'workaround'.

The surface line is great because of the pen support. Honestly, I would NEVER recommend any surface product to anyone who didn't heavily prioritize the pen.

 

The Pro is great as a tablet when it comes  to writing, but it sucks as a tablet in all other regards due to Windows being such a terrible touch experience. The Pro also sucks as a laptop as the keyboard and trackpad are terrible compared to what's in the XPS/Macs, and if you ever want to use it as a laptop on your lap then you have to deal with the very awkward and unnerving keyboard-screen connection.

 

The Book rectifies the laptop issues of the Pro but still has the same shit tablet experience. So if you happen to want to heavily use the pen but you also need a competent laptop, then the book is a good choice (assuming price isn't an issue, as it is expensive). 

 

Personally I went with the laptop+cheap used SP3 and I basically only use my surface for writing. Although, since I basically only care about One Note on my surface anyway, I would have gotten an iPad Pro 12.9 instead had they been available on the used market at the time. But not everyone wants two devices, and that's perfectly fair (although in my case everything is synced with one note and I don't actually do anything else on my surface, so I don't have the problem of keeping what's where straight).

 

The surface laptop is interesting because it's really not terrible in terms of value last time I checked, but it also doesn't offer anything meaningful over the better XPS 13 and it's impossible to open/upgrade and it uses alcantara for the keyboard, which is just odd. The one and only thing that makes surfaces a good purchase is the pen support but that doesn't work particularly well on a vertical screen...

PSU Tier List | CoC

Gaming Build | FreeNAS Server

Spoiler

i5-4690k || Seidon 240m || GTX780 ACX || MSI Z97s SLI Plus || 8GB 2400mhz || 250GB 840 Evo || 1TB WD Blue || H440 (Black/Blue) || Windows 10 Pro || Dell P2414H & BenQ XL2411Z || Ducky Shine Mini || Logitech G502 Proteus Core

Spoiler

FreeNAS 9.3 - Stable || Xeon E3 1230v2 || Supermicro X9SCM-F || 32GB Crucial ECC DDR3 || 3x4TB WD Red (JBOD) || SYBA SI-PEX40064 sata controller || Corsair CX500m || NZXT Source 210.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

 

This is a big issue especially considering this could be easily remedied by providing a higher wattage charger.

Honestly, this is such a joke. Why is it so hard for them to confess that their charger doesn't provide enough juice?

 

 

The surface charing port maxes out at 100W, they kept it for compatibility. The port is the problem, not the charger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

I don't think a weak power bring is enough to call the device garbage.

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

...it will affect a very small number of people.

For those that unfortunately find themselves within that particular minority then the device is clearly not fit for purpose. Sorry but that's just bizarre O.o

48 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

*begins a 3d render overnight*

*wakes up to find laptop is dead and render failed."

 

Me: "Dammit!"

Yes exactly, personally if I was reliant on the machine for some critical work related activity and it failed on me in such a way then it's totally not fit for purpose and should therefore be considered garbage - RMA money back & fuck off thanks.

 

It's almost like saying that if I drive my car beyond a certain speed then the brakes may not work... Oh but very few people really tend to go that fast so it's alright.

 

Quintessentially it's a design flaw.

The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, tsk said:

The surface charing port maxes out at 100W, they kept it for compatibility. The port is the problem, not the charger.

is there any source for that?

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

How to setup MSI Afterburner OSD | How to make your AMD Radeon GPU more efficient with Radeon Chill | (Probably) Why LMG Merch shipping to the EU is expensive

Oneplus 6 (Early 2023 to present) | HP Envy 15" x360 R7 5700U (Mid 2021 to present) | Steam Deck (Late 2022 to present)

 

Mid 2023 AlTech Desktop Refresh - AMD R7 5800X (Mid 2023), XFX Radeon RX 6700XT MBA (Mid 2021), MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon (Early 2018), 32GB DDR4-3200 (16GB x2) (Mid 2022

Noctua NH-D15 (Early 2021), Corsair MP510 1.92TB NVMe SSD (Mid 2020), beQuiet Pure Wings 2 140mm x2 & 120mm x1 (Mid 2023),

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

is there any source for that?

Don't have any official source for it, and Microsoft won't release the specs of the port, but the Surface Book 2 is pulling about 95W from the charger and that is the very upper limit for the port itself. I just know it from an electrical engineering standpoint, It's about the same as Apples old magsafe 2 and USB-C which also sits at a max of around 100W.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just now, tsk said:

Don't have any official source for it, and Microsoft won't release the specs of the port, but the Surface Book 2 pulling about 95W from the charger and that is the very upper limit for the port itself. I just know it from an electrical engineering standpoint, It's about the same as Apples old magsafe 2 and USB-C which also sits at a max of around 100W.

Do you know what kind of changes they would need to make to support over 100 watts for the SurfaceConnect and also USB-C?

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

How to setup MSI Afterburner OSD | How to make your AMD Radeon GPU more efficient with Radeon Chill | (Probably) Why LMG Merch shipping to the EU is expensive

Oneplus 6 (Early 2023 to present) | HP Envy 15" x360 R7 5700U (Mid 2021 to present) | Steam Deck (Late 2022 to present)

 

Mid 2023 AlTech Desktop Refresh - AMD R7 5800X (Mid 2023), XFX Radeon RX 6700XT MBA (Mid 2021), MSI X370 Gaming Pro Carbon (Early 2018), 32GB DDR4-3200 (16GB x2) (Mid 2022

Noctua NH-D15 (Early 2021), Corsair MP510 1.92TB NVMe SSD (Mid 2020), beQuiet Pure Wings 2 140mm x2 & 120mm x1 (Mid 2023),

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Do you know what kind of changes they would need to make to support over 100 watts for the SurfaceConnect and also USB-C?

It wouldn't be a problem for Microsoft to build a very similar port that could deliver 120W, it would porbably be slightly bigger and require some changes to the power circuitry, but that would break backwards compatibility, which I'm assuming is the reason they stuck with the current one.

Edit; The USB-C spec allows for max 5A@20V which gives 100W, so there's no going around that if you wanna call it USB-C.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×