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LapX

Will a 3960X bottleneck a next gen GPU?

12 minutes ago, Enderman said:

What do you not understand about "it's the same architecture"?

It is the same CPU as the 2600K with 2 cores 4 threads more and a higher TDP.

 

Maybe you weren't aware of this, but extreme edition CPUs have a model number that is 1000 above the consumer generation, despite having the exact same architecture.

A 3960X is not from the 3770K generation, it is from the 2600K generation.

 

This means that the single core performance is the same, and since very few games can use more than 8 threads, the gaming performance is practically identical.

Same with certain rendering programs which don't use many threads, such as adobe.

 

I guess you just weren't around back when these CPUs were just released?

Ok, I found some benchmarks on the 3DMark database.

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/13263681

This is a person with a stock 1080ti and stock 3960x running firestrike 1.1. They get a score of about 22000.

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/12155032

This is a person with a stock 1080ti and stock 7700k running firestrike 1.1. They get a score of about 23000.

 

Need I say much more?

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Hello everyone, I'm currently running a 3960x with 16GB of ram and a GTX 970. I am planning to upgrade when the next Nvidia cards come out and I was wondering if I should also upgrade my CPU (and therefore my motherboard and memory).

 

I know we can't possibly imagine what it will be like, so does a 3960x bottleneck a GTX 1080 Ti ?

 

I don't feel like my CPU is slow by any means, but I might not be aware of it and it's getting old. (Sandy Bridge-E dates from the end of 2011)

 

Thanks !


CPU : Intel Core i7 3960X, Mobo : X79-UD3, Memory : 4x4GB Vengeance Black Memory 1600MHz, GPU : Asus GTX 970 Strix, Case : Switch 810 Matte Black, Storage : 256GB Samsung 830 SSD, Seagate Barracuda 1TB, PSU : Thermaltake 750W 80+ Bronze, Displays : 3x Asus 1080p Screens, Cooling : Corsair H100i, Keyboard : Logitech G710+, Mouse : Madcat Cyborg R.A.T.7, Sound : Sennheiser HD598, V-Moda Crossfade LP, Logitech Z-5500, HMD : Oculus Rift CV1

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Yeah, it's reeeeally old.


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1 minute ago, tp95112 said:

No

Clearly you are not aware of the massive performance improvements throughout the past half decade of CPU architectural innovation.

Oh and keep in mind that the 7700k and 8700k are even better than the 6700k.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
11 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Clearly you are not aware of the massive performance improvements throughout the past half decade of CPU architectural innovation.

Oh and keep in mind that the 7700k and 8700k are even better than the 6700k.

So based on this, my 3960x is actually currently bottlenecking my 970 ?


CPU : Intel Core i7 3960X, Mobo : X79-UD3, Memory : 4x4GB Vengeance Black Memory 1600MHz, GPU : Asus GTX 970 Strix, Case : Switch 810 Matte Black, Storage : 256GB Samsung 830 SSD, Seagate Barracuda 1TB, PSU : Thermaltake 750W 80+ Bronze, Displays : 3x Asus 1080p Screens, Cooling : Corsair H100i, Keyboard : Logitech G710+, Mouse : Madcat Cyborg R.A.T.7, Sound : Sennheiser HD598, V-Moda Crossfade LP, Logitech Z-5500, HMD : Oculus Rift CV1

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1 minute ago, LapX said:

So based on this, my 3960x is actually currently bottlenecking my 970 ?

Yeah.

Well, "bottlenecking" as in you could be getting more performance with a better CPU.

Not "bottlenecking" as in you won't see a performance difference with a better GPU.

 

Most people don't understand that both the CPU and the GPU contribute to the final performance.

So it is not necessary, but it is recommended, that you upgrade your CPU if you want the best performance when you upgrade your GPU.


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15 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Clearly you are not aware of the massive performance improvements throughout the past half decade of CPU architectural innovation.

Oh and keep in mind that the 7700k and 8700k are even better than the 6700k.

It’s rather unfair to put the 3rd gen extreme edition in with the other old chips.  That thing is on par with a 1600 and (especially at higher resolutions) will not massively bottleneck a higher end gpu too badly


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1 minute ago, Damascus said:

It’s rather unfair to put the 3rd gen extreme edition in with the other old chips.  That thing is on par with a 1600 and (especially at higher resolutions) will not massively bottleneck a higher end gpu too badly

The 3000 E saeries has the same single core performance as the 2000 consumer series of CPUs.

It is the same architecture.

Comparable to an i7 2600k with 4 extra threads which pretty much won't make a difference in 99% of games.


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3 minutes ago, Enderman said:

The 3000 E saeries has the same single core performance as the 2000 consumer series of CPUs.

It is the same architecture.

Comparable to an i7 2600k with 4 extra threads which pretty much won't make a difference in 99% of games.

OC it to 4.5ghz and you see performance within 2% of a 1600, meaning it is very capable.  IMO a monitor upgrade would be a better use of money because past 1440p it almost doesn’t matter what cpu you have.


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4 minutes ago, Enderman said:

The 3000 E saeries has the same single core performance as the 2000 consumer series of CPUs.

It is the same architecture.

Comparable to an i7 2600k with 4 extra threads which pretty much won't make a difference in 99% of games.

If OP is running his 3960X overclocked, which I would be severly disappointed if he wasn't, there should be NO reason why he can't get a 1080ti for it. X79 is still a very competitive platform and encouraging him to upgrade to a 7700k or 8700k especially when the insane DDR4 prices are taken into account is plain silly. OP, keep your X79 system, your ddr3, overclock your 3960x, and grab yourself a 1080ti. You'll enjoy it.


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It depends on the workload ultimately, but yes it will almost certainly bottleneck the next generation of NVIDIA GPUs. Even now with Pascal, it'll bottleneck them, not that you can actually avoid it though.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
9 minutes ago, Enderman said:

Yeah.

Well, "bottlenecking" as in you could be getting more performance with a better CPU.

Not "bottlenecking" as in you won't see a performance difference with a better GPU.

 

Most people don't understand that both the CPU and the GPU contribute to the final performance.

So it is not necessary, but it is recommended, that you upgrade your CPU if you want the best performance when you upgrade your GPU.

Alright I get it thanks :)


CPU : Intel Core i7 3960X, Mobo : X79-UD3, Memory : 4x4GB Vengeance Black Memory 1600MHz, GPU : Asus GTX 970 Strix, Case : Switch 810 Matte Black, Storage : 256GB Samsung 830 SSD, Seagate Barracuda 1TB, PSU : Thermaltake 750W 80+ Bronze, Displays : 3x Asus 1080p Screens, Cooling : Corsair H100i, Keyboard : Logitech G710+, Mouse : Madcat Cyborg R.A.T.7, Sound : Sennheiser HD598, V-Moda Crossfade LP, Logitech Z-5500, HMD : Oculus Rift CV1

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5 minutes ago, Damascus said:

OC it to 4.5ghz and you see performance within 2% of a 1600, meaning it is very capable.  IMO a monitor upgrade would be a better use of money because past 1440p it almost doesn’t matter what cpu you have.

Overclock the 1600 and then that difference is no longer 2%.

Stop making the "overclocked CPU vs non-overclocked" CPU argument, it is useless.

It doesn't change the fact it is almost a decade old architecture that is slow regardless of how much you overclock it.

 

4 minutes ago, panther420 said:

If OP is running his 3960X overclocked, which I would be severly disappointed if he wasn't, there should be NO reason why he can't get a 1080ti for it. X79 is still a very competitive platform and encouraging him to upgrade to a 7700k or 8700k especially when the insane DDR4 prices are taken into account is plain silly. OP, keep your X79 system, your ddr3, overclock your 3960x, and grab yourself a 1080ti. You'll enjoy it.

I never said he can't get a 1080ti for it, I said that it would be reducing his performance if he did, compared to a much newer CPU.

Go read my post again and maybe try to understand what I said.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
3 minutes ago, panther420 said:

If OP is running his 3960X overclocked, which I would be severly disappointed if he wasn't, there should be NO reason why he can't get a 1080ti for it. X79 is still a very competitive platform and encouraging him to upgrade to a 7700k or 8700k especially when the insane DDR4 prices are taken into account is plain silly. OP, keep your X79 system, your ddr3, overclock your 3960x, and grab yourself a 1080ti. You'll enjoy it.

Sadly my CPU isn't overclocked, maybe I'll FINALLY get to it during christmas break. But isn't turbo boost doing enough ?


CPU : Intel Core i7 3960X, Mobo : X79-UD3, Memory : 4x4GB Vengeance Black Memory 1600MHz, GPU : Asus GTX 970 Strix, Case : Switch 810 Matte Black, Storage : 256GB Samsung 830 SSD, Seagate Barracuda 1TB, PSU : Thermaltake 750W 80+ Bronze, Displays : 3x Asus 1080p Screens, Cooling : Corsair H100i, Keyboard : Logitech G710+, Mouse : Madcat Cyborg R.A.T.7, Sound : Sennheiser HD598, V-Moda Crossfade LP, Logitech Z-5500, HMD : Oculus Rift CV1

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1 minute ago, LapX said:

Sadly my CPU isn't overclocked, maybe I'll FINALLY get to it during christmas break. But isn't turbo boost doing enough ?

Turbo Boost only works at its fullest when one core is stressed(one core being stressed will see the highest frequency, and as you increase the load on other cores, it'll start to taper off to the base frequency).


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Just now, Enderman said:

Overclock the 1600 and then that difference is no longer 2%.

Stop making the "overclocked CPU vs non-overclocked" CPU argument, it is useless.

 

It doesn't change the fact it is almost a decade old architecture that is slow regardless of how much you overclock it.

I never said he can't get a 1080ti for it, I said that it would be reducing his performance if he did, compared to a much newer CPU.

Go read my post again and maybe try to understand what I said.

That also doesn't change the fact that he shouldn't upgrade his 3960X. You're really overplaying the difference between different Intel architectures over the past 5 years. There is little difference after you overclock them to their max (fyi, most 2600ks will overclock higher than most 3770ks and 4770ks). Just get your 1080ti and if you feel your CPU isn't good enough, you can upgrade later. I just really wouldn't upgrade right now due to ram prices being completely unreasonable.


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Motherboard: MSI B350 Gaming Pro Carbon

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GPU: 8800 GTS 640mb, I swap between that and my 8800 GTS 512mb

Storage: Seagate 320gb right from 2006

PSU: Ultra 600W 

Case: Deepcool Tesseract SW

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Turbo Boost only works at its fullest when one core is stressed(one core being stressed will see the highest frequency, and as you increase the load on other cores, it'll start to taper off to the base frequency).

Oh so by overclocking it I would get the frequency on all cores ? I didn't think of it that way that's why I didn't bother.


CPU : Intel Core i7 3960X, Mobo : X79-UD3, Memory : 4x4GB Vengeance Black Memory 1600MHz, GPU : Asus GTX 970 Strix, Case : Switch 810 Matte Black, Storage : 256GB Samsung 830 SSD, Seagate Barracuda 1TB, PSU : Thermaltake 750W 80+ Bronze, Displays : 3x Asus 1080p Screens, Cooling : Corsair H100i, Keyboard : Logitech G710+, Mouse : Madcat Cyborg R.A.T.7, Sound : Sennheiser HD598, V-Moda Crossfade LP, Logitech Z-5500, HMD : Oculus Rift CV1

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, panther420 said:

That also doesn't change the fact that he shouldn't upgrade his 3960X. You're really overplaying the difference between different Intel architectures over the past 5 years. There is little difference after you overclock them to their max (fyi, most 2600ks will overclock higher than most 3770ks and 4770ks). Just get your 1080ti and if you feel your CPU isn't good enough, you can upgrade later. I just really wouldn't upgrade right now due to ram prices being completely unreasonable.

Yeah I'm not going to upgrade my CPU right now, I was just wondering about what I should do when Volta or Ampere comes out since I've always upgraded every next generation.


CPU : Intel Core i7 3960X, Mobo : X79-UD3, Memory : 4x4GB Vengeance Black Memory 1600MHz, GPU : Asus GTX 970 Strix, Case : Switch 810 Matte Black, Storage : 256GB Samsung 830 SSD, Seagate Barracuda 1TB, PSU : Thermaltake 750W 80+ Bronze, Displays : 3x Asus 1080p Screens, Cooling : Corsair H100i, Keyboard : Logitech G710+, Mouse : Madcat Cyborg R.A.T.7, Sound : Sennheiser HD598, V-Moda Crossfade LP, Logitech Z-5500, HMD : Oculus Rift CV1

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Just now, LapX said:

Yeah I'm not going to upgrade my CPU right now, I was just wondering about what I should do when Volta or Ampere comes out since I've always upgraded every next generation.

By the time Volta comes out, you will likely be in order for a Coffee Lake (or maybe even Ice Lake by that time) or Zen+ upgrade, as ddr4 will have also calmed down by then. But hold on to your x79 system for now, and yea maybe try overclocking. Judging by your signature, you have some good cooling, so you're in the clear for that.


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PC Specs:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master MasterLiquid Lite 120

RAM: 2x8gb Corsair Vengence DDR4 Red LED @ 3066mt/s

Motherboard: MSI B350 Gaming Pro Carbon

GPU: XFX RX 580 GTR XXX White 

Storage: Mushkin ECO3 256GB SATA3 SSD + Some hitachi thing

PSU: Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 650W

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OS: Windows 10 x64 Pro Version 1607

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RAM: GSkill 4gb DDR2 1066mt/s

Motherboard: Asus P5n-e SLI

GPU: 8800 GTS 640mb, I swap between that and my 8800 GTS 512mb

Storage: Seagate 320gb right from 2006

PSU: Ultra 600W 

Case: Deepcool Tesseract SW

OS: Windows XP SP3 32-bit, Linux Mint 18.2 Cinnamon 64-bit, Manjaro Deepin x64 (sorta)

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3 minutes ago, LapX said:

Oh so by overclocking it I would get the frequency on all cores ? I didn't think of it that way that's why I didn't bother.

If all cores can hold the turbo frequency, yup.


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1 minute ago, panther420 said:

That also doesn't change the fact that he shouldn't upgrade his 3960X. You're really overplaying the difference between different Intel architectures over the past 5 years. There is little difference after you overclock them to their max (fyi, most 2600ks will overclock higher than most 3770ks and 4770ks). Just get your 1080ti and if you feel your CPU isn't good enough, you can upgrade later. I just really wouldn't upgrade right now due to ram prices being completely unreasonable.

A few hundred MHz more on an older architecture isn't going to help.

The old extreme edition CPUs didn't overclock that well anyway because of their super high TDP.

It is literally 6 generations old, it needs to be replaced.

You can find plenty of examples on google of just how much better CPUs have gotten over the past decade.

Image result for 2600k vs 8700k

Image result for 2600k vs 8700k

Especially for stuff that deals with single core performance:

Image result for 2600k vs 8700k


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Just now, Enderman said:

A few hundred MHz more on an older architecture isn't going to help.

The old extreme edition CPUs didn't overclock that well anyway because of their super high TDP.

It is literally 6 generations old, it needs to be replaced.

You can find plenty of examples on google of just how much better CPUs have gotten over the past decade.

Image result for 2600k vs 8700k

Image result for 2600k vs 8700k

Especially for stuff that deals with single core performance:

Image result for 2600k vs 8700k

Oh, that's weird. I don't see the extreme edition on any of those charts. Would you mind providing relevant benchmarks?


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PC Specs:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master MasterLiquid Lite 120

RAM: 2x8gb Corsair Vengence DDR4 Red LED @ 3066mt/s

Motherboard: MSI B350 Gaming Pro Carbon

GPU: XFX RX 580 GTR XXX White 

Storage: Mushkin ECO3 256GB SATA3 SSD + Some hitachi thing

PSU: Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 650W

Case: Corsair Crystal 460X

OS: Windows 10 x64 Pro Version 1607

Retro machine:

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PC Specs:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550

CPU Cooler: Stock heatsink

RAM: GSkill 4gb DDR2 1066mt/s

Motherboard: Asus P5n-e SLI

GPU: 8800 GTS 640mb, I swap between that and my 8800 GTS 512mb

Storage: Seagate 320gb right from 2006

PSU: Ultra 600W 

Case: Deepcool Tesseract SW

OS: Windows XP SP3 32-bit, Linux Mint 18.2 Cinnamon 64-bit, Manjaro Deepin x64 (sorta)

Mac Pro Early 2008: Dual Xeon X5482s w/ 32GB RAM & HD 5770 running macOS High Sierra

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10 minutes ago, panther420 said:

Oh, that's weird. I don't see the extreme edition on any of those charts. Would you mind providing relevant benchmarks?

What do you not understand about "it's the same architecture"?

It is the same CPU as the 2600K with 2 cores 4 threads more and a higher TDP.

 

Maybe you weren't aware of this, but extreme edition CPUs have a model number that is 1000 above the consumer generation, despite having the exact same architecture.

A 3960X is not from the 3770K generation, it is from the 2600K generation.

 

This means that the single core performance is the same, and since very few games can use more than 8 threads, the gaming performance is practically identical.

Same with certain rendering programs which don't use many threads, such as adobe.

 

I guess you just weren't around back when these CPUs were just released?


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Just now, Enderman said:

What do you not understand about "it's the same architecture"?

It is the same CPU as the 2600K with 2 cores 4 threads more and a higher TDP.

 

Maybe you weren't aware of this, but extreme edition CPUs have a model number that is 1000 above the consumer generation, despite having the exact same architecture.

This means that the single core performance is the same, and since very few games can use more than 8 threads, the gaming performance is practically identical.

Same with certain rendering programs which don't use many threads, such as adobe.

I have to say, I'm a little offended you think I'm that stupid.

 

Maybe you weren't aware of this, but you can't estimate performance of  two CPUs with a different core count and different platform entirely but the same architecture, ESPECIALLY if you are going to include a multithreaded program like adobe premiere. Adobe Premiere (cs6 and later) will make proper use of about 32 threads, and not much beyond that. And no, single core performance is not the same. You CANNOT simply make an assumption that the 3960X will have the same performance in games at 2600k. It might, and at this point I'm less concerned about the fact that the 3960X is not as good as I thought, but more of the fact that your logic is completely flawed. 


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CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master MasterLiquid Lite 120

RAM: 2x8gb Corsair Vengence DDR4 Red LED @ 3066mt/s

Motherboard: MSI B350 Gaming Pro Carbon

GPU: XFX RX 580 GTR XXX White 

Storage: Mushkin ECO3 256GB SATA3 SSD + Some hitachi thing

PSU: Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 650W

Case: Corsair Crystal 460X

OS: Windows 10 x64 Pro Version 1607

Retro machine:

Spoiler

PC Specs:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550

CPU Cooler: Stock heatsink

RAM: GSkill 4gb DDR2 1066mt/s

Motherboard: Asus P5n-e SLI

GPU: 8800 GTS 640mb, I swap between that and my 8800 GTS 512mb

Storage: Seagate 320gb right from 2006

PSU: Ultra 600W 

Case: Deepcool Tesseract SW

OS: Windows XP SP3 32-bit, Linux Mint 18.2 Cinnamon 64-bit, Manjaro Deepin x64 (sorta)

Mac Pro Early 2008: Dual Xeon X5482s w/ 32GB RAM & HD 5770 running macOS High Sierra

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Posted · Best Answer
12 minutes ago, Enderman said:

What do you not understand about "it's the same architecture"?

It is the same CPU as the 2600K with 2 cores 4 threads more and a higher TDP.

 

Maybe you weren't aware of this, but extreme edition CPUs have a model number that is 1000 above the consumer generation, despite having the exact same architecture.

A 3960X is not from the 3770K generation, it is from the 2600K generation.

 

This means that the single core performance is the same, and since very few games can use more than 8 threads, the gaming performance is practically identical.

Same with certain rendering programs which don't use many threads, such as adobe.

 

I guess you just weren't around back when these CPUs were just released?

Ok, I found some benchmarks on the 3DMark database.

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/13263681

This is a person with a stock 1080ti and stock 3960x running firestrike 1.1. They get a score of about 22000.

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/12155032

This is a person with a stock 1080ti and stock 7700k running firestrike 1.1. They get a score of about 23000.

 

Need I say much more?


Spoiler

My main desktop, "Rufus":

Spoiler

PC Specs:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600

CPU Cooler: Cooler Master MasterLiquid Lite 120

RAM: 2x8gb Corsair Vengence DDR4 Red LED @ 3066mt/s

Motherboard: MSI B350 Gaming Pro Carbon

GPU: XFX RX 580 GTR XXX White 

Storage: Mushkin ECO3 256GB SATA3 SSD + Some hitachi thing

PSU: Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 650W

Case: Corsair Crystal 460X

OS: Windows 10 x64 Pro Version 1607

Retro machine:

Spoiler

PC Specs:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550

CPU Cooler: Stock heatsink

RAM: GSkill 4gb DDR2 1066mt/s

Motherboard: Asus P5n-e SLI

GPU: 8800 GTS 640mb, I swap between that and my 8800 GTS 512mb

Storage: Seagate 320gb right from 2006

PSU: Ultra 600W 

Case: Deepcool Tesseract SW

OS: Windows XP SP3 32-bit, Linux Mint 18.2 Cinnamon 64-bit, Manjaro Deepin x64 (sorta)

Mac Pro Early 2008: Dual Xeon X5482s w/ 32GB RAM & HD 5770 running macOS High Sierra

More PC's

 

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