IPS or 1ms 144hz

[Glenwing]

If possible, I would love a combination of both   Is this possible ? The 8ms+ on most of the IPS monitors i see makes me nervous.

 

Don't worry about it.  The talk that goes around about how IPS panels are slower than TN and bad for gaming is just a myth at this point, it's leftover from the very early IPS panels that had like 50ms response time.  And TN were around 15-16ms.

[Popple2000]

There sure are a lot of DUMB, ignorant comments here.

 

It's true that IPS has way better IQ than TN panels. HOWEVER. HOW FUCKING EVER, you have to consider the shitty ass PERSISTENCE that you have to deal with on an IPS panel.

 

http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates&count=3

Look at the UFO on your precious IPS panel. It's a blurry CLUSTERFUCK. You can't even make out any details on it. Nice image quality, BRO.

 

Every time there's movement, the entire screen gets blurry. What good is image quality when your whole screen is a BLURRY FUCKING MESS?

 

G-Sync, assuming it actually does what Nvidia says it does, is mandatory for real games. Lightboost or some kind of strobed backlight solution is MANDATORY to eliminate persistence. If you're playing video games in 2014, it's strobed backlight, or don't even get out of bed.™

 

Oh wait. I forgot. They don't make real games anymore, and none of you hipster FUCKS even like real video games like Samurai Shodown II. You couldn't care less. You're happy playing shitty MOBAs with persistence up the ASSHOLE.

 

WOW you all make me sick. Go to hell.

You seem very angry, however, thank you for your input

[Popple2000]

Don't worry about it.  The talk that goes around about how IPS panels are slower than TN and bad for gaming is just a myth at this point, it's leftover from the very early IPS panels that had like 50ms response time.  And TN were around 15-16ms.

Oh, ok - I was unaware of that. Thanks again!

[Glenwing]

There sure are a lot of DUMB, ignorant comments here.

 

It's true that IPS has way better IQ than TN panels. HOWEVER. HOW FUCKING EVER, you have to consider the shitty ass PERSISTENCE that you have to deal with on an IPS panel.

 

http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates&count=3

Look at the UFO on your precious IPS panel. It's a blurry CLUSTERFUCK. You can't even make out any details on it. Nice image quality, BRO.

 

Every time there's movement, the entire screen gets blurry. What good is image quality when your whole screen is a BLURRY FUCKING MESS?

 

G-Sync, assuming it actually does what Nvidia says it does, is mandatory for real games. Lightboost or some kind of strobed backlight solution is MANDATORY to eliminate persistence. If you're playing video games in 2014, it's strobed backlight, or don't even get out of bed.™

 

Oh wait. I forgot. They don't make real games anymore, and none of you hipster FUCKS even like real video games like Samurai Shodown II. You couldn't care less. You're happy playing shitty MOBAs with persistence up the ASSHOLE.

 

WOW you all make me sick. Go to hell.

 

Have you actually used an IPS monitor?  Blurring really isn't a problem from where I am, standing in front of one.  Not in that test you posted, and not in any of the FPS games I play.

[screwyourdumbaccounts]

Have you actually used an IPS monitor?  Blurring really isn't a problem from where I am, standing in front of one.  Not in that test you posted, and not in any of the FPS games I play.

 

Yes. I own multiple IPS monitors. Can you see at 60 frames per second? Is your forehead sloped?

[Slinkey]

Gonna say this, I just got my BenQ monitor 144Hz... I am never going back to 60Hz, unless it is a 4k Monitor...

[Popple2000]

Gonna say this, I just got my BenQ monitor 144Hz... I am never going back to 60Hz, unless it is a 4k Monitor...

Are you using it for FPS's mostly ? Have you tried any MMO's on it ? if so - how do they look ?

 

Thanks !

[screwyourdumbaccounts]

Look, I'm fucking telling you. Most of the idiots who've replied don't even REALIZE how shitty persistence is until they play a game with Lightboost on.

60hz is NOT an option in December 2013. What's wrong with you?

[Popple2000]

Look, I'm fucking telling you. Most of the idiots who've replied don't even REALIZE how shitty persistence is until they play a game with Lightboost on.

60hz is NOT an option in December 2013. What's wrong with you?

Nothing is wrong with me.  I mainly play MMO's like I said in my original post and wanted to get the opinion of others before I spend my money on something.  I'm not sure that 1ms & 144hz trumps 1440p for what I will mainly be using it for.

I think maybe you should have a quick fap and get the anger out - just my 2c.

 

Again - thanks for your thoughts

[Spud387]

Nothing is wrong with me.  I mainly play MMO's like I said in my original post and wanted to get the opinion of others before I spend my money on something.  I'm not sure that 1ms & 144hz trumps 1440p for what I will mainly be using it for.

I think maybe you should have a quick fap and get the anger out - just my 2c.

 

Again - thanks for your thoughts

I played around with the Dell 2412M & BenQ XL2420TE, I spent a good 6hrs calibrating the BenQ and got it so the colors were nearly identicle to my Dell 2209WA monitors. It is honestly a great monitor, but unless you are really into FPS games AND can run then at a high FPS, I don't see the benefit over an IPS. I personally chose the Dell with its slightly better color reproduction & better viewing angles.

 

Down the road I'll invest in a g-sync monitor

[TheNinjaNextDor]

I would recommend the Asus 144hz in 24 or 27 and using the lightboost hack. I did it an the is no tearing or blurring and the colors look great. You also have the option of 3D. I'd never go back to anything below 120Hz if its not above 1080P

[Popple2000]

I played around with the Dell 2412M & BenQ XL2420TE, I spent a good 6hrs calibrating the BenQ and got it so the colors were nearly identicle to my Dell 2209WA monitors. It is honestly a great monitor, but unless you are really into FPS games AND can run then at a high FPS, I don;t see the benefit over and IPS. I personally choice the Dell with its slightly better color reproduction & better viewing angles.

 

Down the road I'll invest in a g-sync monitor

Thanks for your thoughts

[Popple2000]

I would recommend the Asus 144hz in 24 or 27 and using the lightboost hack. I did it an the is no tearing or blurring and the colors look great. You also have the option of 3D. I'd never go back to anything below 120Hz if its not above 1080P

Thanks for your views !

[TheNinjaNextDor]

Thanks for your views !

I forgot to add that asus will make that monitor with g sync and ive heard you might be able to get it now and get the g sync module later. You might want to look into that.

[Popple2000]

I forgot to add that asus will make that monitor with g sync and ive heard you might be able to get it now and get the g sync module later. You might want to look into that.

Will do, thanks again!

[Slinkey]

I play a bit of WoW and TERA, but mostly LoL, BF4 and Skyrim.

 

Also the colors on the monitor are not bad, ofc IPS are made for them, but for a TN panel they are not bad, quite good actually.

[Popple2000]

I play a bit of WoW and TERA, but mostly LoL, BF4 and Skyrim.

 

Also the colors on the monitor are not bad, ofc IPS are made for them, but for a TN panel they are not bad, quite good actually.

Much appreciated

[ManOfDisguise]

Look, I'm fucking telling you. Most of the idiots who've replied don't even REALIZE how shitty persistence is until they play a game with Lightboost on.

60hz is NOT an option in December 2013. What's wrong with you?

Hey, I'm getting a 144hz monitor for my rig but my rig wont play games at around 144fps at ultra settings itll get only about 60fps and i dont want to make everythign ugly just to get a lot of framerate. Is there a big difference in 60fps on 60hz vs 60fps on 144hz? or is there no difference at all? i just wasted money i guess

[aithos]

If a player has to resort to a cheap TN for that minute difference vs using a superior panel, they suck at gaming.

 

This is the worst kind of ignorance.

 

First of all, IPS panels aren't *that* much better than TN and anyone that implies it's some earthshattering difference I have some rude, inappropriate names to call you.  Second, most games are not rendered above 1080p and the color range isn't enough to offset the cons of an IPS panel.  And let's not get into the "response time" thing, because response time has *NEVER* been the important thing when looking at a gaming monitor.  There are two major factors in gaming that you want to look at in regards to a monitor:

 

1) Refresh rate - how quickly does the panel refresh.  60hz?  That's 16ms between frames.  120hz?  That's 8ms between frames.  144hz?  If I recall correctly that's 6ish ms between frames (don't have google handy atm).  So what does that mean?  It means that aside from reducing motion blur, aside from making your picture look smoother and more natural, it also gives you the most accurate information in online multiplayer games.  It means your shots will "feel" like they register better, you'll see spell effects and projectiles faster in RPGs and games like LoL.  You may not think it's a big deal, but it is noticable and when combined with...

 

2) Input lag - how much processing or input lag does your panel have?  A good gaming TN panel will have virtually no input or processing lag.  Most IPS panels (all the non-Korean 1440p ones) will have 20-30ms of input and/or processing lag.  The two things are different.  Input lag is what you get from having a PCB on your monitor that has HDMI, DP, DVI, etc.  The more inputs you have the worse the pathing is on your PCB and it introduces some lag.  Processing lag is what you get when you have a scaler that your signal passes through.  Even if you are running in your native resolution it passes through the scaler and causes lag.  When combined you get the 20-30ms that most people just simply call Input lag because breaking it down is complicated and pointless.  What you need to know is that it is worse than adding the same number of MS to your ping because it isn't an even playing field.  It would be like intentionally giving your enemy a handicap where they see you 30ms before you see them EVERY TIME. 

 

The worst thing is that the server doesn't take it into account because it's client side, that means that with ping you at least get some correction because the server is working with everyone's data and doing the calculations for you.  With input lag it doesn't even know you're reacting slower.  So when your shots don't hit like you think they should, or you don't see the fire in time to move, or that taunt hits you that you should have been able to dodge....it's your own fault.

 

That's why IPS panels are a bad idea.  And before anyone brings it up:  1080p IPS panels are stupid.  You don't get the resolution, on a single monitor viewing angle is a nonissue and the colors don't even offset the lack of higher refresh rate and lack of motion blur.  So even if you get a 1080p IPS that happens to have little input lag (there are a few) then the negatives still outweight the positives.  The only way I'd recommend a non-Korean IPS is if you do a TON of photo editing (for work, not fun) OR you play almost excluisively single player games.  If you play online multiplayer games at all you're handicapping yourself for no reason.

 

If you game a lot and don't want a Korean panel, I'd say go with the BENQ XL2420TE and don't look back.  People like the guy I quoted are generally bad at games and like to blame everyone else for why, it's always "lag, noobs or tryhards".   Getting stuck in LoL would be ELO Hell and not a personal lack of skill or knowledge.  It's really easy to see a difference in a 120hz monitor and anyone who couldn't tell a difference in 30ms of input lag doesn't deserve to play online multiplayer games.

 

Edit:  I have 1080p Dell IPS panels at work, they suck.  The matte finish is awful, they sparkle horribly, the colors are dull and lifeless even after being calibrated and I'd never even consider one for personal use.  The 2414 is a 1080p IPS that will do literally nothing for you for gaming.  The IPS snobs need to stay out of threads like this, it gets really old.  Oh, and I game on a Korean IPS panel...so meh.  But it has virtually no input lag and I've overclocked it to 110hz with no frame drops...so yeah.

 

Edit2: Pre-empting ridiculous responses, I sold TVs and monitors for years, I have calibrated them for years and I own what is arguably *still* the best TV in the world (the Pioneer elite FD-111 kuro).  So yeah, I know what a good picture is "supposed" to look like.  I've also done video work on properly calibrated IPS panels, I have a buddy who does professional photo work and I've played games semi-professionally on a variety of different monitors.  The takeaway:  I know what I'm talking about.

[aithos]

Hey, I'm getting a 144hz monitor for my rig but my rig wont play games at around 144fps at ultra settings itll get only about 60fps and i dont want to make everythign ugly just to get a lot of framerate. Is there a big difference in 60fps on 60hz vs 60fps on 144hz? or is there no difference at all? i just wasted money i guess

 

It's not as big of a difference, but there is still a difference.  The refresh rate determines the minimum amount of time between refreshes a panel is capable of.  When you look at an average framerate even if it appears to be rock solid on 60fps it's still actually jumping all over the place.  Run a benchmark like ungine valley and you'll see what I mean.  For my system it looks buttery smooth all the time but my minimum FPS is 30, my max is 200 and my average is 120.  So when you're at 60fps, you might actually be getting 30-90 fps and when you get those higher framerates, even just part of the time the picture will be smoother and more accurate.

 

60hz = 16ms between frames

120hz = 8ms between frames

144hz = < 8ms between frames

 

Obviously it's better if you can average 100frames or better, but it is still better...

[ManOfDisguise]

It's not as big of a difference, but there is still a difference.  The refresh rate determines the minimum amount of time between refreshes a panel is capable of.  When you look at an average framerate even if it appears to be rock solid on 60fps it's still actually jumping all over the place.  Run a benchmark like ungine valley and you'll see what I mean.  For my system it looks buttery smooth all the time but my minimum FPS is 30, my max is 200 and my average is 120.  So when you're at 60fps, you might actually be getting 30-90 fps and when you get those higher framerates, even just part of the time the picture will be smoother and more accurate.

 

60hz = 16ms between frames

120hz = 8ms between frames

144hz = < 8ms between frames

 

Obviously it's better if you can average 100frames or better, but it is still better...

yea im not using its full potential as im not getting the frames, but still i didnt waste money right? im still getting a good advantage right?

[ManOfDisguise]

This is the worst kind of ignorance.

 

First of all, IPS panels aren't *that* much better than TN and anyone that implies it's some earthshattering difference I have some rude, inappropriate names to call you.  Second, most games are not rendered above 1080p and the color range isn't enough to offset the cons of an IPS panel.  And let's not get into the "response time" thing, because response time has *NEVER* been the important thing when looking at a gaming monitor.  There are two major factors in gaming that you want to look at in regards to a monitor:

 

1) Refresh rate - how quickly does the panel refresh.  60hz?  That's 16ms between frames.  120hz?  That's 8ms between frames.  144hz?  If I recall correctly that's 6ish ms between frames (don't have google handy atm).  So what does that mean?  It means that aside from reducing motion blur, aside from making your picture look smoother and more natural, it also gives you the most accurate information in online multiplayer games.  It means your shots will "feel" like they register better, you'll see spell effects and projectiles faster in RPGs and games like LoL.  You may not think it's a big deal, but it is noticable and when combined with...

 

2) Input lag - how much processing or input lag does your panel have?  A good gaming TN panel will have virtually no input or processing lag.  Most IPS panels (all the non-Korean 1440p ones) will have 20-30ms of input and/or processing lag.  The two things are different.  Input lag is what you get from having a PCB on your monitor that has HDMI, DP, DVI, etc.  The more inputs you have the worse the pathing is on your PCB and it introduces some lag.  Processing lag is what you get when you have a scaler that your signal passes through.  Even if you are running in your native resolution it passes through the scaler and causes lag.  When combined you get the 20-30ms that most people just simply call Input lag because breaking it down is complicated and pointless.  What you need to know is that it is worse than adding the same number of MS to your ping because it isn't an even playing field.  It would be like intentionally giving your enemy a handicap where they see you 30ms before you see them EVERY TIME. 

 

The worst thing is that the server doesn't take it into account because it's client side, that means that with ping you at least get some correction because the server is working with everyone's data and doing the calculations for you.  With input lag it doesn't even know you're reacting slower.  So when your shots don't hit like you think they should, or you don't see the fire in time to move, or that taunt hits you that you should have been able to dodge....it's your own fault.

 

That's why IPS panels are a bad idea.  And before anyone brings it up:  1080p IPS panels are stupid.  You don't get the resolution, on a single monitor viewing angle is a nonissue and the colors don't even offset the lack of higher refresh rate and lack of motion blur.  So even if you get a 1080p IPS that happens to have little input lag (there are a few) then the negatives still outweight the positives.  The only way I'd recommend a non-Korean IPS is if you do a TON of photo editing (for work, not fun) OR you play almost excluisively single player games.  If you play online multiplayer games at all you're handicapping yourself for no reason.

 

If you game a lot and don't want a Korean panel, I'd say go with the BENQ XL2420TE and don't look back.  People like the guy I quoted are generally bad at games and like to blame everyone else for why, it's always "lag, noobs or tryhards".   Getting stuck in LoL would be ELO Hell and not a personal lack of skill or knowledge.  It's really easy to see a difference in a 120hz monitor and anyone who couldn't tell a difference in 30ms of input lag doesn't deserve to play online multiplayer games.

 

Edit:  I have 1080p Dell IPS panels at work, they suck.  The matte finish is awful, they sparkle horribly, the colors are dull and lifeless even after being calibrated and I'd never even consider one for personal use.  The 2414 is a 1080p IPS that will do literally nothing for you for gaming.  The IPS snobs need to stay out of threads like this, it gets really old.  Oh, and I game on a Korean IPS panel...so meh.  But it has virtually no input lag and I've overclocked it to 110hz with no frame drops...so yeah.

 

Edit2: Pre-empting ridiculous responses, I sold TVs and monitors for years, I have calibrated them for years and I own what is arguably *still* the best TV in the world (the Pioneer elite FD-111 kuro).  So yeah, I know what a good picture is "supposed" to look like.  I've also done video work on properly calibrated IPS panels, I have a buddy who does professional photo work and I've played games semi-professionally on a variety of different monitors.  The takeaway:  I know what I'm talking about.

if i have a rig that will play most games at 60fps and i have a 144hz monitor did i waste my money on getting a 144hz monitor if i wont get that extra framerate or is the 6ms frame response time a good enough advantage and good enough for me to get a 144hz? and yes i will play online games, lots of em.

[aithos]

if i have a rig that will play most games at 60fps and i have a 144hz monitor did i waste my money on getting a 144hz monitor if i wont get that extra framerate or is the 6ms frame response time a good enough advantage and good enough for me to get a 144hz? and yes i will play online games, lots of em.

 

No, you didn't waste your money.  As I said above, framerates are variable...your 144hz monitor will show things much quicker when your GPU can deliver frames faster than 16ms apart.  People who think the response time is what matters are just ignorant and literally have no idea what is important in online gaming.  Response time is like "contrast rating" and it's complete garbage.  1ms, 8ms, it's all completely subjective and pointless.  No one cares about gray to gray, they care about actual refresh rate.  How quickly can a new frame be posted on the screen and does it persist?

 

Someone else mentioned persistance earlier and did a piss-poor job of talking about it because their post was laced with profanity.  But what happens is that LCD monitors display a frame until a new frame is displayed, unlike CRT, which would display a frame for just as long as it took to display it and then it would be gone.  So with an LCD you get motion blur because the panel can't keep up with the frames that are being sent, the faster the refresh rate the less motion blur you get...which also translates into more accurate information.  Think of it this way:

 

60hz movement:   A -------------- A ------------- A -------------- A -------------- A

120hz movement: A ----- A ----- A ----- A ----- A ----- A ----- A ----- A ----- A ----- A

 

It's not a good diagram and trying to do 144hz would be silly, but you get more quick information.  So if you had to shoot the A in an FPS game, or it was a spell flying at you and you had to dodge it and we picked a random point in time which would be easier to use?  The answer is 120 (or 144).  In FPS games you'll get better positional information so your shots will register better, in MMORPGs you'll have an easier time keeping out of fire or dodging cone attacks.  In LoL you'll have an easier time CSing and dodging skillshots. 

 

Like I said, if you don't get above 60fps you won't be getting the full experience, but you'll see a little improvement.  Odds are you'll still have that monitor when you build a new PC or upgrade, and if you can run it at 144hz you'll get the benefit later too.  Oh, and get the lightboost hack, even with only 60fps if you can eliminate motion blur (permanence) things will be much more crisp and clear.  You'll wonder how you ever played on an LCD...

 

As for some of the other comments in this thread:

 

 

If possible, I would love a combination of both Is this possible ? The 8ms+ on most of the IPS monitors i see makes me nervous.

 

I've addressed this a couple times, don't worry about response time.  It's the Input lag you need to worry about.

 

Don't worry about it. The talk that goes around about how IPS panels are slower than TN and bad for gaming is just a myth at this point, it's leftover from the very early IPS panels that had like 50ms response time. And TN were around 15-16ms.

 

It's not a myth.  Again, response time is meaningless, it's the refresh rate and the input lag.

 

Have you actually used an IPS monitor? Blurring really isn't a problem from where I am, standing in front of one. Not in that test you posted, and not in any of the FPS games I play.

 

I have both TN and IPS monitors at home, I've played at 60hz and 110hz (on my Korean IPS), I've also played on a friends IPS with input lag (he's a photo and graphics guy so he works from home sometimes).  Blurring is definitely a problem, if you don't notice it that doesn't change the fact it's there.  I've actually considered breaking out my 19" CRT a few times over the years but I've gotten too used to a bigger screen.  I'd buy a 24" CRT if I could get one for a reasonable price and had the desk space for it!

 

Nothing is wrong with me. I mainly play MMO's like I said in my original post and wanted to get the opinion of others before I spend my money on something. I'm not sure that 1ms & 144hz trumps 1440p for what I will mainly be using it for.

I think maybe you should have a quick fap and get the anger out - just my 2c.

 

Again - thanks for your thoughts

 

Your MMO performance is going to struggle in 1440p.  None of the MMORPGs on the market were rendered for 1440p, so you're going to basically be upscaling and won't notice any significant difference.  Any endgame raid or large scale PVP content will be horribly laggy because of the additionally demands on the hardware, and the input lag will mean you react 20-30ms slower on every single game mechanic.  Ever seen the guy who always gets hit by the fire or the cone attack or can't get in position in time and wipes your raid?  Yeah, that's mr IPS is just as good for gaming.

[ManOfDisguise]

No, you didn't waste your money.  As I said above, framerates are variable...your 144hz monitor will show things much quicker when your GPU can deliver frames faster than 16ms apart.  People who think the response time is what matters are just ignorant and literally have no idea what is important in online gaming.  Response time is like "contrast rating" and it's complete garbage.  1ms, 8ms, it's all completely subjective and pointless.  No one cares about gray to gray, they care about actual refresh rate.  How quickly can a new frame be posted on the screen and does it persist?

 

Someone else mentioned persistance earlier and did a piss-poor job of talking about it because their post was laced with profanity.  But what happens is that LCD monitors display a frame until a new frame is displayed, unlike CRT, which would display a frame for just as long as it took to display it and then it would be gone.  So with an LCD you get motion blur because the panel can't keep up with the frames that are being sent, the faster the refresh rate the less motion blur you get...which also translates into more accurate information.  Think of it this way:

 

60hz movement:   A -------------- A ------------- A -------------- A -------------- A

120hz movement: A ----- A ----- A ----- A ----- A ----- A ----- A ----- A ----- A ----- A

 

It's not a good diagram and trying to do 144hz would be silly, but you get more quick information.  So if you had to shoot the A in an FPS game, or it was a spell flying at you and you had to dodge it and we picked a random point in time which would be easier to use?  The answer is 120 (or 144).  In FPS games you'll get better positional information so your shots will register better, in MMORPGs you'll have an easier time keeping out of fire or dodging cone attacks.  In LoL you'll have an easier time CSing and dodging skillshots. 

 

Like I said, if you don't get above 60fps you won't be getting the full experience, but you'll see a little improvement.  Odds are you'll still have that monitor when you build a new PC or upgrade, and if you can run it at 144hz you'll get the benefit later too.  Oh, and get the lightboost hack, even with only 60fps if you can eliminate motion blur (permanence) things will be much more crisp and clear.  You'll wonder how you ever played on an LCD...

 

Heh thank you for actually taking the time to answer my question twice , that was a really good and clear explanation(with the As) there! I now kind of get it better! Also 60fps was just an example i'll be using a rig with a gtx 770, amd fx 8350, 8gb ram so yea and shooters i might turn down a little graphically for more frames but i would still expect to hit <90 at most with a 770 but i really have no clue...

[aithos]

I get really tired of seeing these threads.  The population here is horribly biased for IPS monitors because a lot of them are more about eyecandy than performance.  This isn't a bluray vs 1080p upscaled DVD situation where the difference is stark and noticable even by people who don't have a trained eye.  I have a very trained eye for video and I haven't even seen that much of a difference since I jumped to 1440p, although I'm withholding judgement completely until I've been gaming in it for a few months and can go back and play on my old monitor.

 

I still come down to these two questions:

 

1) Do you primarily play single player games OR primarily use your monitor for photo/video editing?

 

2) Do you primarily play online multiplayer games OR rarely (or never) use your monitor for photo video editing?

 

If 1 = true then "buy IPS"

elseif 2 = true then "buy 144hz TN"

else "buy both"