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Firefox 57 (aka Quantum) out now. Huge performance improvements.

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Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

I think you're right, I did some reading and it does look like the Fury and even Vega cards do not have a decoder for VP9.  I still find it odd that chrome can do better than FF... I think this proves FF is doing something inefficiently, but I digress.  Apparently 400 series amd cards do have it though which is really weird.

 

Do you know if it would be worth trying to involve the 4770k's iGPU in some way?

Its worth a shot, looking at this page the HD4600 has support for partial acceleration just like my GTX 970:
https://communities.intel.com/thread/59216

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Just now, Dabombinable said:

Its worth a shot, looking at this page the HD4600 has support for partial acceleration just like my GTX 970:
https://communities.intel.com/thread/59216

Interesting... I will have to look into that

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2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Interesting... I will have to look into that

Apparently HVEC 8 bit decoding is supported as well, so it seems that the HD4600 really is good for 4K (as advertised by my Asus H87M Pro's box).

Edit: That was 2 years ago BTW-I think AMD's GPU designers forgot about hardware decoding.

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Just now, Dabombinable said:

Apparently HVEC 8 bit decoding is supported as well, so it seems that the HD4600 really is good for 4K (as advertised by my Asus H87M Pro's box).

Ok I definitely need to find how to actually make use of it now then xD Hopefully there is a way to decode on it and pass that video stream along to the Fury and out through its ports... :/ Because the other option obviously is plugging the monitor right into the onboard and not using the GPU and obviously that's nos a good solution for gaming xD

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5 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I think you're right, I did some reading and it does look like the Fury and even Vega cards do not have a decoder for VP9.  I still find it odd that chrome can do better than FF... I think this proves FF is doing something inefficiently, but I digress.  Apparently 400 series amd cards do have it though which is really weird.

 

Do you know if it would be worth trying to involve the 4770k's iGPU in some way?

interesting. Didn't know that. Happy I have a 480 now :P Better compatibility

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1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Ok I definitely need to find how to actually make use of it now then xD Hopefully there is a way to decode on it and pass that video stream along to the Fury and out through its ports... :/ Because the other option obviously is plugging the monitor right into the onboard and not using the GPU and obviously that's nos a good solution for gaming xD

Just FYI, the driver update which enabled these features....is from 2016. Meaning that AMD are pretty much the only company without even partial VP9 acceleration on their GPU.

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4 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Ok I definitely need to find how to actually make use of it now then xD Hopefully there is a way to decode on it and pass that video stream along to the Fury and out through its ports... :/ Because the other option obviously is plugging the monitor right into the onboard and not using the GPU and obviously that's nos a good solution for gaming xD

You'd think that with all the people running systems with both igpus and dedicated gpus that the designers would consider using both or having the capability to offload built in. What would be nice is an auto offload so when the dgpu starts getting used for something else, the software would auto offload to the igpu

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Just now, 8uhbbhu8 said:

You'd think that with all the people running systems with both igpus and dedicated gpus that the designers would consider using both or having the capability to offload

Yeah if that was a default behaviour (when suitable) that would be nice.  But, I don't mind setting something odd up if I have to.., the issue now is is it even possible?

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

Just FYI, the driver update which enabled these features....is from 2016. Meaning that AMD are pretty much the only company without even partial VP9 acceleration on their GPU.

Yeah doesn't look good for them xD I mean, I will give them a pass on the Fury just because of the age but Vega?  No excuse for that -_-

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@Ryan_Vickers @8uhbbhu8

The lack of VP9 definitely puts more credence to Fiji just being Tonga upscaled with HBM support looking at articles and forums about its design. BTW, AMD says Polaris does have VP9 decoding, but its at best broken from what others have been saying (and according to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VP9#Decoding)

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9 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Yeah if that was a default behaviour (when suitable) that would be nice.  But, I don't mind setting something odd up if I have to.., the issue now is is it even possible?

Yeah doesn't look good for them xD I mean, I will give them a pass on the Fury just because of the age but Vega?  No excuse for that -_-

What I'm wondering is how much did they think VP9 was going to be used when they started development of Vega? Chrome and youtube is i'd say by far the biggest user of it in the current market and thats a massive amount. Were they even paying attention to it and made the conscious decision not to include it? Or was it a complete oversight based on an engineer completely forgetting it existed? :P 

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8 minutes ago, 8uhbbhu8 said:

What I'm wondering is how much did they think VP9 was going to be used when they started development of Vega? Chrome and youtube is i'd say by far the biggest user of it in the current market and thats a massive amount. Were they even paying attention to it and made the conscious decision not to include it? Or was it a complete oversight based on an engineer completely forgetting it existed? :P 

Yeah I'm not aware of anywhere else it's used yet, but there's no reason it couldn't be, and even if it is just youtube that's a pretty big market as is.  The reason it's popular is it's very good in terms of quality / byte, with the trade off being it takes a lot of compute power to encode it, and, evidently, also to decode it.

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@Ryan_Vickers Upping the content process limit has seemed to solve most of my issues. Haven't tested file download times. Haven't found any negatives to doing it yet either.Capture.PNG.6824673e7e1af29c6c18efa77d28f61e.PNG 

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Just now, Drak3 said:

@Ryan_Vickers Upping the content process limit has seemed to solve most of my issues. Haven't tested file download times. Haven't found any negatives to doing it yet either.

They claim that more basically sacrifices RAM for better performance, so if you have the space, seems like a good move.  I did try it at 6 but maybe I should go higher.  In theory though it would only make a difference when using multiple tabs and wouldn't affect the performance of a single tab (in fact they basically say that themselves on the settings page)

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Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

They claim that more basically sacrifices RAM for better performance, so if you have the space, seems like a good move.  I did try it at 6 but maybe I should go higher.  In theory though it would only make a difference when using multiple tabs and wouldn't affect the performance of a single tab (in fact they basically say that themselves on the settings page)

Well, at the cap of 7, FF has had YouTube and LTT open twice as long as it would take to render FF57 unresponsive just running LTT with the standard of 4.

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14 hours ago, Hellion said:

Bit rate may be higher but it's an illusion that it "looks better" on a monitor that can't display that resolution.

The higher bit rate means the video comes out less degraded due to compression. Really, it has little to do with the resolution itself, it's more just a (or another) Youtube quirk that the higher bit rate is only available with the 4k setting.

 

Resolution and codec being equal, higher bit rates are always better for quality.

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19 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Yeah I'm not aware of anywhere else it's used yet, but there's no reason it couldn't be, and even if it is just youtube that's a pretty big market as is.  The reason it's popular is it's very good in terms of quality / byte, with the trade off being it takes a lot of compute power to encode it, and, evidently, also to decode it.

Back when Youtube started using VP9, I wondered for the longest time why my laptop, which had no trouble decoding Youtube video before, was suddenly running much hotter and eating it's battery. I find it rather sneaky of how this changeover was done with no official options to change the codec streamed without futzing with browser settings.

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Just now, Zodiark1593 said:

Back when Youtube started using VP9, I wondered for the longest time why my laptop, which had no trouble decoding Youtube video before, was suddenly running much hotter and eating it's battery. I find it rather sneaky of how this changeover was done with no official options to change the codec streamed without futzing with browser settings.

That's what happens when it has to "brute force" the decoding due to not supporting it in hardware :(

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53 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Resolution and codec being equal, higher bit rates are always better for quality.

Not true. 

 

 

What happened in that example? I used different encoding settings. The result was that one of the files took significantly longer to encode, but also looks much better.

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1 hour ago, Dabombinable said:

Its worth a shot, looking at this page the HD4600 has support for partial acceleration just like my GTX 970:
https://communities.intel.com/thread/59216

That didn't lead me anywhere but I looked around for the proper download and found this page

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/81496/Intel-HD-Graphics-4600

seems to be a slightly newer one, about to try this.  I already enabled iGPU in the motherboard.  Hopefully it "just works", but I suspect that (assuming this can be done at all) I will have to do something more than that to make it work.

 

Edit: nope, no such luck.  I do see Quicksync offered in OBS now, as well as a new tab for iGPU usage in task manager, but neither browser is touching it.  Both continue to act the same as before:

  • Chrome uses approx. 50 - 70% CPU, 15 - 20% GPU "3D", and that's about all
  • FF57 uses approx. 8 - 15% CPU, 5% GPU "3D", 5% GPU "copy", and a considerable amount of VRAM

idk if that's enough to give anyone a hint as to what is going on.  I find it strange that they're so different.

Edited by Ryan_Vickers

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15 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Not true. 

 

 

What happened in that example? I used different encoding settings. The result was that one of the files took significantly longer to encode, but also looks much better.

Figured the encode settings would fall under the umbrella of Codec close enough. Evidently not. :P

 

A rather silly oversight on my part though. I've spent plenty of time in Handbrake, comparing and contrasting different settings.

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Here's some more info.  That ~5% of dropped frames?  That happens at 4K60, 4K30, 1080p30, and even 720p30, so there is definitely something strange going on - it's not just a matter of raw performance limitations.  I just never noticed until I watched a 60 fps video since everything less looks choppy to me already xD I tried it at 480p though and no issues at all o.O Seems to be all or nothing, not correlated with demand in the slightest.

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2 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Here's some more info.  That ~5% of dropped frames?  That happens at 4K60, 4K30, 1080p30, and even 720p30, so there is definitely something strange going on - it's not just a matter of raw performance limitations.  I just never noticed until I watched a 60 fps video since everything less looks choppy to me already xD I tried it at 480p though and no issues at all o.O Seems to be all or nothing, not correlated with demand in the slightest.

I was able to talk to my friend who recently bought an RX 580 8GB (as a replacement for a 650ti 2GB), and they've noticed no problems at all with Youtube dropping frames-even though its paired with an i5 4440 (which won't overclock to 3.5GHz due to the motherboards PCI subsystem).

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
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@Ryan_Vickers So, ran into the same issues with a 7 process limit, just took longer. Clean Win10 install, 6 process limit, looking good so far.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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3 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

I was able to talk to my friend who recently bought an RX 580 8GB (as a replacement for a 650ti 2GB), and they've noticed no problems at all with Youtube dropping frames-even though its paired with an i5 4440 (which won't overclock to 3.5GHz due to the motherboards PCI subsystem).

580 has the vp9 decoder though right?  On the one hand, it makes sense that it would make a big difference.  However, the fact that a) chrome is able to almost do it perfectly on my system without one, and b) firefox's issues do not correlate at all with the actual intensity of the task, make me think that just because I don't have one doesn't necessarily mean I'm out of luck.

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3 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

580 has the vp9 decoder though right?  On the one hand, it makes sense that it would make a big difference.  However, the fact that a) chrome is able to almost do it perfectly on my system without one, and b) firefox's issues do not correlate at all with the actual intensity of the task, make me think that just because I don't have one doesn't necessarily mean I'm out of luck.

It doesn't actually work-its broken.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
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