Let's not go with group regulated units, like the M12II. Thanks.

[Stefan Payne]

30 minutes ago, jonnyGURU said:

You missed my post.  DSG 1.4 has some pretty considerable changes.  While many of them are "recommended" and not "required", Coffee Lake is going to use those lower sleep states and that's not going to work with 99% of the PSUs on the market (because it requires DSP or a supervisor IC that hasn't begun to ship yet).

 

Ah, OK, can you share any more information about that?
If possible via PN or so.

 

Couldn't find anything googeling, thanks Volskwagen and their DSG Gearbox shit.....

[Drew93]

I'm using the Seasonic m12ii Evo, right now.  It has all of the protections that the original didn't have.  However, I still seem to be having some major problems with it even though I haven't drawn more than 500 watts from the wall.  I would assume it's because the 12 volt rail can't handle it.  

[OrionFOTL]

2 hours ago, Drew93 said:

I'm using the Seasonic m12ii Evo, right now.  It has all of the protections that the original didn't have.

Seasonic didn't change any protections, or the protection chip itself, between revisions. Your EVO is as unprotected as the non-Evo ones.

[awesomegamer919]

6 minutes ago, OrionFOTL said:

Seasonic didn't change any protections, or the protection chip itself, between revisions. Your EVO is as unprotected as the non-Evo ones.

What even is the difference between S12II and S12II EVO?

[OrionFOTL]

I don't think S12II had an EVO version at all, I can't find it anywhere on the internet. I suppose only M12II had an EVO edition, with those cable and fan changes.

[breixobaloca]

Nope, there is no S12II EVO. I think he means the new S12II which was released in 2015. The changes between the actual series and the previous ones are: fan change (from Ball Bearing to Hong Hua FDB as Stefan said), honeycomb grid in the fan vent, error fixes and flat cables excepting the ATX 24-pin. Or maybe he means M12II and M12II EVO.

[awesomegamer919]

1 minute ago, breixobaloca said:

Nope, there is no S12II EVO. I think he means the new S12II which was released in 2015. The changes between the actual series and the previous ones are: fan change (from Ball Bearing to Hong Hua FDB as Stefan said), honeycomb grid in the fan vent, error fixes and flat cables excepting the ATX 24-pin. Or maybe he means M12II and M12II EVO.

I meant M12II EVO edition, sorry

 

I have a habit of referring to the S12II/M12II collectively as just the S12II.

[Damascus]

8 hours ago, jonnyGURU said:

Or Tazz:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=497

 

Five years.

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=296

Huh, what are you up to now?

 

[Princess Luna]

There is nothing wrong with these power supplies to be honest, they will work as fine as they have always worked.

 

Now telling people that you can get better stuff for similar costing is a different story, something can become obsolete from the buying brand new stand point when newer better offers with competing pricing arise yet that does not turn these power supplies obsolete in practical usage stand point.

 

If you have one of these in your system you're fine.... you'll just have a hard time reselling it if you ever try to.

[Stefan Payne]

3 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

There is nothing wrong with these power supplies to be honest, they will work as fine as they have always worked.

There is nothing wrong with Linkworld or DEER or other 15$ Powersupplys to be honest. They will work fine as they alway worked.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

Now telling people that you can get better stuff for similar costing is a different story, something can become obsolete from the buying brand new stand point when newer better offers with competing pricing arise yet that does not turn these power supplies obsolete in practical usage stand point.

You have NOT understood what we are talking about.

 

First:
The most important part is the protection of the unit. The S12II/M12II (620W and below) lacks in this area.

A PSU without OCP on all rails, including the minor ones can not be a good one. 

Second:
The way +12V and +5V are generated.

They come both out of the same transformer, are regulated at the same point.

Means if you put 100% load on +12V and 0A on +5V you have a problem as the PSU is NOT designed for this load situation. And +12V will fall below the specified values while +5V rises above specified values.

Or vice versa. Put 100% load on +5V and 0% ON +12V you have a similar problem but the +5V will fall and +12V rise.

 

And there isn't much you can do about it, its an inherant problem with regulating multiple voltages at one single point...

 

The only thing you could possibly do is to specify very low values for +5V so you don't care much about that.

But even then it doesn't change anything about the problem of group regulated units and that is that all voltages in that group are dependent on each other...

 

3 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

If you have one of these in your system you're fine.... you'll just have a hard time reselling it if you ever try to.

If you have one of the 15$ powersupplys in your system, you're fine ... you'll just have a hard time reselling it if you ever try to.

 

You see what I'm getting at?

 

The problem with PSU without all useful protections is that if something goes wrong, you have a serious problem.

And with this unit, what prevents +5V from switching off besides UVP??

ANd for that the +5V rail has to fall to about 3,5V...

 

Just take a look at the Datasheet for the HY-510N protection Chip the S12II/M12II variants below 620W use!

 

Seasonic saved a buck or two at the wrong point. They had to to that shit for the Wapanese capacitors.

They could have easily put a decent protection chip inside the unit - like the ANtec High Current Gamer 520 and 620W wich would have made it not that bad.

 

But stil you are talking about a very noisy unit that revs the fan up very early and very high...

[Princess Luna]

3 minutes ago, Stefan Payne said:

.

Quite frankly I'm not going to argue with you, these Seasonic power supplies are stupidly superior to the Chinese junk you're trying to use as examples while distorting what I actually said entirely.

 

Couldn't care less either ways my PSU is fine.

[dubaRA7]

I actually decided to buy m12 520w, and after seeing this post i'm in dilemma again.

What psu would you recommend me for around 50$ ? My pc is pulling around 220w ( that's the result i got in power calculator, i5 7400+1050ti, only one hdd).

[Stefan Payne]

. I just wanted to show you that your argument could be applied to various other stuff like very cheap Powersupplys.

That was my Intent to show the 'argument' that the PSU runs fine isn't really a valid one.

 

If you are fluent in German, you could read that Article, if not, you could use Google Translat

https://www.computerbase.de/2013-11/alte-netzteile-test/3/#abschnitt_ein_defekter_ausreisser

 

Or just look at the picture at the end of the page.

That PSU ran fine until it was send in to that test!
Even with those capacitors...

 

So a PSU with totally defective/leaked capacitors ran fine with the system it was used in!!

 

 

32 minutes ago, dubaRA7 said:

I actually decided to buy m12 520w, and after seeing this post i'm in dilemma again.

What psu would you recommend me for around 50$ ? My pc is pulling around 220w ( that's the result i got in power calculator, i5 7400+1050ti, only one hdd).

Where do you live, what is available?

 

For 50€ I could think about a 400W be quiet Pure Power 10, 450W Corsair CX.

Not sure about Cooler Master Master Watt right now. But my Sample should arrive within the next week, I hope...

[LienusLateTips]

11 hours ago, Damascus said:

Yo OP, what are your thoughts on the AX series?  AX860 in particular 

I would take it but if you are buying new there are definitely better options for the same price

[dubaRA7]

Hi, thanks for the reply. @Stefan Payne

this is the build: msi b250 pro- vd, i5 7400, gtx 1050ti, 1tb wd blue, 8gb ram, lg optical drive.Currently i have : http://www.lc-power.com/en/product/netzteile/standard/lc420-12-v231/ but im planning to buy ssd, another set of 8gb of ram and potentially new gpu (1060 or 1070).

I live in Serbia, and for that money this is available like:

Thermaltake(Smart Se series, Munich 430w, Berlin 600w, Hamburg 530w), Corsair Cx series (400w and above), Be quiet pure power 9 400w and System power 8 500w, Antec vpf 550 ec 80+, Zalman zm600-Lx, Cooler Master Master Watt series, Chiefte Eco series, pretty much every Evga psu ( white, b1) , Aerocool vx-650.

[Damascus]

31 minutes ago, JDE said:

I would take it but if you are buying new there are definitely better options for the same price

Already have it, bought a while back for 150 CAD (~110 usd)

 

It came with corsairs AX1200i black individually sleeved kit as well, IMO a good deal for basically BNIB

[Stefan Payne]

36 minutes ago, dubaRA7 said:

Hi, thanks for the reply. @Stefan Payne

this is the build: msi b250 pro- vd, i5 7400, gtx 1050ti, 1tb wd blue, 8gb ram,

Already done or planning to do?
If you plan, AMD Ryzen would be a better choice. Or would have if you already have that...

 

36 minutes ago, dubaRA7 said:

Currently i have : http://www.lc-power.com/en/product/netzteile/standard/lc420-12-v231/ 

Oh dear god.

Please do NOT use the computer with that PSU anymore...

 

36 minutes ago, dubaRA7 said:

but im planning to buy ssd, another set of 8gb of ram and potentially new gpu (1060 or 1070).

I live in Serbia, and for that money this is available like:

Thermaltake(Smart Se series, Munich 430w, Berlin 600w, Hamburg 530w), Corsair Cx series (400w and above), Be quiet pure power 9 400w and System power 8 500w, Antec vpf 550 ec 80+, Zalman zm600-Lx, Cooler Master Master Watt series, Chiefte Eco series, pretty much every Evga psu ( white, b1) , Aerocool vx-650.

I'm not sure if the Master Watt below 600W has DC-DC but I should know next week, I hope...

From those maybe the Antec VPF, if it is this one:

http://www.pc-max.de/artikel/netzteile/test-antec-vpf550-netzteil-im-test/20360

And not the VPxxxF series...

 

Is the 450W Corsair CX available for a reasonable price??

The rest doesn't seem to be worth thinking about...

[dubaRA7]

3 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Already done or planning to do?
If you plan, AMD Ryzen would be a better choice. Or would have if you already have that...

 

Oh dear god.

Please do NOT use the computer with that PSU anymore...

 

I'm not sure if the Master Watt below 600W has DC-DC but I should know next week, I hope...

From those maybe the Antec VPF, if it is this one:

http://www.pc-max.de/artikel/netzteile/test-antec-vpf550-netzteil-im-test/20360

And not the VPxxxF series...

 

Is the 450W Corsair CX available for a reasonable price??

The rest doesn't seem to be worth thinking about...

 Yeah, already done. I have this pc for about 3 months.

it is Antec VPF550 EC 80+ Bronze 550w  http://www.antec.com/product.php?id=707010&fid=5022144&lan=nz 

Corsair cx 430 m green label modular is 55e , cx550m(grey) is around 65- 72e.

for past hour i was searching posts in this forum section and i noticed that you guys highly recommend cx 450m , i couldn't find that one besides those i found vs450 for 43e , is that psu solid option, or i should really save up my money and buy the cx550m ? @Stefan Payne

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Princess Cadence said:

Seasonic power supplies are stupidly superior to the Chinese junk you're trying to use as examples while distorting what I actually said entirely.

 

Couldn't care less either ways my PSU is fine.

Very good, but not always superior.  And also made in China. 

 

All desktop PSUs are made in China. 

[seon123]

1 hour ago, jonnyGURU said:

All desktop PSUs are made in China. 

With the only exception being the Cooler Master Murata MIJ thing?

[JoostinOnline]

21 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

I've been wondering something......What will PSUs look like in another 7 years?

You'll only be able to see them with VR goggles.

[comicsansms]

1 hour ago, jonnyGURU said:

Very good, but not always superior.  And also made in China. 

 

All desktop PSUs are made in China. 

What about the Coolermaster MasterWatt [! You remortgaged your house to buy a PSU?] MIJ?

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, seon123 said:

With the only exception being the Cooler Master Murata MIJ thing?

 

7 minutes ago, Comic_Sans_MS said:

What about the Coolermaster MasterWatt [! You remortgaged your house to buy a PSU?] MIJ?

 

Ah yes.  A leveraged server PSU, it is still a desktop PSU.  Expensive and sucks for performance (relatively) but still a desktop PSU.  ?

 

Also, first generation Seasonic Prime were made in Taiwan, but they stopped that in less than a year because they found out they couldn't make money.  That's fine.  The Chinese made ones are better anyways. 

 

[seon123]

Just now, jonnyGURU said:

The Chinese made ones are better anyways

How are they better? Shouldn't both meet the same tolerances?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, seon123 said:

How are they better? Shouldn't both meet the same tolerances?

I don't have time to get into how factories work, but a PSU is more than the sum of its parts.