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"The Gigabit internet War" continues in Hungary

TMS
1 minute ago, TMS said:

They can use DynamicDNS. And as I mentioned, these are residential subscriptions, I don't think much people buy servers to run them off from their home connection.

They don´t need to buy them.  And where´s a DDNS service that works reliably, respects your privacy and doesn´t charge you?

 

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1 minute ago, TMS said:

Well, I guess you are the 1% here who would do that. Others would just simply rent these services for cheap at a hosting provider. Or if they really care about privacy, place their servers in a datacenter.

Did you check what it costs to rent some rack space in a datacenter?  And how would that increase your privacy?

 

Even renting a vhost isn´t cheap because it would cost me at least 60 per year, plus the time to maintain it, and it doesn´t help privacy, either.

 

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2 minutes ago, heimdali said:

They don´t need to buy them.  And where´s a DDNS service that works reliably, respects your privacy and doesn´t charge you?

 

I've only used a few for a short time, so I can't give you a proper answer to that. Your points are valid, but as I said, I don't think there is even 1% of the people here care this much about their privacy. They are just fine with Gmail or some local MSPs. Besides, most people can't afford a server or want to save a few on not running their computers 24/7.

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40 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

inb4 people bitch about the US' internet

I would still be complaining since my area was capped at 12-45Mbps from ATT but recently we got full Gigabit coverage in town from some competitor for roughly ~$80. Most areas to the west and south of where I live have lower bandwidth than 45Mbps.

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4 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

Yup in the East they shove bandwidth in your face

Its not just Hungary...

Lol, that´s probably what they do with all the money we pay to all those poor countries because we´re all big fankids of the EU, ignoring the fact that Germany is 20 years behind and, give it 10 more years, it´ll be like 50 years behind.

 

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1 minute ago, heimdali said:

Did you check what it costs to rent some rack space in a datacenter?  And how would that increase your privacy?

 

Even renting a vhost isn´t cheap because it would cost me at least 60 per year, plus the time to maintain it, and it doesn´t help privacy, either.

 

Yes, I know the prices, it's not cheap. Although I don't think you'd be paying less than 60 a year for running your computer 24/7.

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6 minutes ago, heimdali said:

Lol, that´s probably what they do with all the money we pay to all those poor countries because we´re all big fankids of the EU, ignoring the fact that Germany is 20 years behind and, give it 10 more years, it´ll be like 50 years behind.

 

We spend the EU money on other unreasonable things, but I won't go in politics. :D

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2 minutes ago, TMS said:

I've only used a few for a short time, so I can't give you a proper answer to that. Your points are valid, but as I said, I don't think there is even 1% of the people here care this much about their privacy. They are just fine with Gmail or some local MSPs. Besides, most people can't afford a server or want to save a few on not running their computers 24/7.

It´s not only about privacy, it´s also much easier to put something up on my own web server when I want someone to download it.  Same goes for the mail server in that I do have the log files with which I can see what happened to the messages, and if needed, I can show that I did send a message.

 

More ppl need to care about their privacy, but tell them that ...

 

If most ppl couldn´t afford a server, most ppl wouldn´t have a cell phone.  It´s cheaper to rent one for 5/month than running one yourself, and that shows at least two things:  Electricity is way too expensive, and computers still have a long way to go before they become more energy efficient.

 

But then think about things like the 5000 little power supplies ppl have around their houses and all the devices that don´t turn off but go on "standby" instead.  That´s a huge waste of electricity, and you could run your server with what you save by turning them off.

 

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8 minutes ago, TMS said:

Yes, I know the prices, it's not cheap. Although I don't think you'd be paying less than 60 a year for running your computer 24/7.

No, it´s more than 60, but I´d have a server running here anyway for things that can´t very well be outsourced.  Besides, it´s also a hobby, and I make my living with that kind of stuff.  Paying 60 on top would be a waste of money.

 

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7 minutes ago, TMS said:

We spend the EU money on other unreasonable things, but I won't go in politics. :D

Yeah, that would make for a horror story without end ... Linus could make some horror videos perhaps :)

 

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1 minute ago, heimdali said:

It´s not only about privacy, it´s also much easier to put something up on my own web server when I want someone to download it.  Same goes for the mail server in that I do have the log files with which I can see what happened to the messages, and if needed, I can show that I did send a message.

 

More ppl need to care about their privacy, but tell them that ...

 

If most ppl couldn´t afford a server, most ppl wouldn´t have a cell phone.  It´s cheaper to rent one for 5/month than running one yourself, and that shows at least two things:  Electricity is way too expensive, and computers still have a long way to go before they become more energy efficient.

 

But then think about things like the 5000 little power supplies ppl have around their houses and all the devices that don´t turn off but go on "standby" instead.  That´s a huge waste of electricity, and you could run your server with what you save by turning them off.

 

I don't personally think that most people would need a personal web or even a mail server. People want easy solutions, not this stuff. And I don't think public MSPs' privacy is that bad right now. I see your point, but these things I think are irrelevant for most people. I never had a situation in my life where a line of a log file would have been a better evidence than showing the email on my phone that it was sent. And if they want to send a file, they put it up on a cloud storage service, like OneDrive or Google Drive. Or if it's something that violates those services' terms, they use P2P.

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5 minutes ago, heimdali said:

No, it´s more than 60, but I´d have a server running here anyway for things that can´t very well be outsourced.  Besides, it´s also a hobby, and I make my living with that kind of stuff.  Paying 60 on top would be a waste of money.

 

Well, if it is your hobby, then a static IP is surely better for you. :D For me, it's most of the time useless. :)

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9 minutes ago, TMS said:

I don't personally think that most people would need a personal web or even a mail server. People want easy solutions, not this stuff. And I don't think public MSPs' privacy is that bad right now. I see your point, but these things I think are irrelevant for most people. I never had a situation in my life where a line of a log file would have been a better evidence than showing the email on my phone that it was sent. And if they want to send a file, they put it up on a cloud storage service, like OneDrive or Google Drive. Or if it's something that violates those services' terms, they use P2P.

It´s the easiest solution by far.  If, for example, I want someone to look at a picture, I copy it to my web server and they can look at it.  Without that, I have to search for half an hour or so to find a place where I could upload it, and I don´t like to do that because I will never know if the file gets deleted when I want it to.  Larger files are particularly troublesome because the places you can upload stuff to tend to have stupid limits on file size.  If I finally found a place, I still have to upload it.  That´s anything but easy and a big hassle.

 

How do I know what an MSP does with my email?  They might store it indefinitely.  We have come so far that a bank is the least safe place for your money because everyone can take money off your account without any validation, and government agencies can always see what you´re spending your money on.  I have no reason to believe that emails are being  handled any better.

 

Showing an email on a phone proves nothing.  Perhaps you never sent it, or perhaps you received a delivery error message which you don´t show me.

 

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9 minutes ago, TMS said:

Well, if it is your hobby, then a static IP is surely better for you. :D For me, it's most of the time useless. :)

If you would have to explicitly request a dynamic IP to get one, would you do that?  Or would you rather take the static one and use it when you want to?

 

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1 minute ago, heimdali said:

It´s the easiest solution by far.  If, for example, I want someone to look at a picture, I copy it to my web server and they can look at it.  Without that, I have to search for half an hour or so to find a place where I could upload it, and I don´t like to do that because I will never know if the file gets deleted when I want it to.  Larger files are particularly troublesome because the places you can upload stuff to tend to have stupid limits on file size.

 

How do I know what an MSP does with my email?  They might store it indefinitely.  We have come so far that a bank is the least safe place for your money because everyone can take money off your account without any validation, and government agencies can always see what you´re spending your money on.  I have no reason to believe that emails are being  handled any better.

 

Showing an email on a phone proves nothing.  Perhaps you never sent it, or perhaps you received a delivery error message which you don´t show me.

 

I send pictures on Messenger, email, etc. Google Drive has a 5TB/file limit, which is ridiculous. BTW, couldn't you just fake the log then? :D

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Just now, heimdali said:

If you would have to explicitly request a dynamic IP to get one, would you do that?  Or would you rather take the static one and use it when you want to?

 

No, I wouldn't, since for me, static IP is a nice-to-have. I'm fine without it, since I don't host a server or any service from home. :D

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Just now, TMS said:

I send pictures on Messenger, email, etc. Google Drive has a 5TB/file limit, which is ridiculous. BTW, couldn't you just fake the log then? :D

I don´t use a messenger, and I don´t always have the email address of the recipient.  I wouldn´t hand my data over to google.

 

I could fake the log entry, but it says to which server the mail was handed off to, and that can be verified by looking at the log file of that server.

 

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Just now, TMS said:

No, I wouldn't, since for me, static IP is a nice-to-have. I'm fine without it, since I don't host a server or any service from home. :D

How is that nice to have?  It´s only better than none.

 

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Just now, heimdali said:

I don´t use a messenger, and I don´t always have the email address of the recipient.  I wouldn´t hand my data over to google.

 

I could fake the log entry, but it says to which server the mail was handed off to, and that can be verified by looking at the log file of that server.

 

Could you tell me if the delivery of an email is so important, why don't you use snail mail instead?

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Just now, heimdali said:

How is that nice to have?  It´s only better than none.

 

Nice to have, because I don't need it. I don't host services from home, so I'm not affected by the disadvantages of a dynamic IP. It's not a huge deal to most people. It's nice to have, because I didn't have a situation in years when a static IP would have been better for me.

As for privacy, I do not send emails containing that sensitive data. And if I had such important data, I surely won't choose email to deliver it.

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Just now, TMS said:

Could you tell me if the delivery of an email is so important, why don't you use snail mail instead?

Because it´s very expensive and time consuming, and I never get to do it.  Try to find a place that sells envelopes and buy one, try to find a place that sells paper and buy some, write up what you want to send on that paper, find a post office or another place where you could send it from, fill out some forms, pay a large fee and have it finally sent.  That involves driving around about 20 miles, takes hours and the whole process takes at least days because the shops and the places to send mail from are usually closed, and you need to find one where you can park.  All in all, I´d say it costs about 200--300 to send something when I figure in my time.

 

Have you recently tried to buy an envelope?  You´ll be having trouble finding one you can buy because they want you to buy 20 or so.  Sending a small letter in such a way that you can prove that you sent it costs 5 something alone, and you get the proof only when it didn´t get lost.  And I only know how expensive this is because I had to do it recently, which sucked big time.

 

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5 minutes ago, TMS said:

Nice to have, because I don't need it. I don't host services from home, so I'm not affected by the disadvantages of a dynamic IP. It's not a huge deal to most people. It's nice to have, because I didn't have a situation in years when a static IP would have been better for me.

As for privacy, I do not send emails containing that sensitive data. And if I had such important data, I surely won't choose email to deliver it.

All data is sensitve.

 

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43 minutes ago, heimdali said:

If most ppl couldn´t afford a server, most ppl wouldn´t have a cell phone.  It´s cheaper to rent one for 5/month than running one yourself, and that shows at least two things:  Electricity is way too expensive, and computers still have a long way to go before they become more energy efficient.

IDK why, for a personal mail server the only thing you need is a raspberry Pi(or some clone)... :D

 

 

/On

And here i am still stuck on a 100/10 asymmetric for 5 USD more :/ . No IPv6 and i had to request a public IPV4 address otherwise i would be sitting behind a double NAT config :S

 

/EDIT

And to top it off they hand out docsys 3.x cable modems and their CMTS is using 2.x... :facepalm:

Edited by jagdtigger
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2 minutes ago, heimdali said:

Because it´s very expensive and time consuming, and I never get to do it.  Try to find a place that sells envelopes and buy one, try to find a place that sells paper and buy some, write up what you want to send on that paper, find a post office or another place where you could send it from, fill out some forms, pay a large fee and have it finally sent.  That involves driving around about 20 miles, takes hours and the whole process takes at least days because the shops and the places to send mail from are usually closed, and you need to find one where you can park.  All in all, I´d say it costs about 200--300 to send something when I figure in my time.

 

Have you recently tried to buy an envelope?  You´ll be having trouble finding one you can buy because they want you to buy 20 or so.  Sending a small letter in such a way that you can prove that you sent it costs 5 something alone, and you get the proof only when it didn´t get lost.  And I only know how expensive this is because I had to do it recently, which sucked big time.

 

You can buy an envelope (and probably paper) in Hungary in the post office and it's not that expensive either to get proof when the recipient gets it.

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10 minutes ago, jagdtigger said:

IDK why, for a personal mail server the only thing you need is a raspberry Pi(or some clone)... :D

 

 

/On

And here i am still stuck on a 100/10 asymmetric for 5 USD more :/ . No IPv6 and i had to request a public IPV4 address otherwise i would be sitting behind a double NAT config :S

How well does it handle a raid1?  Can you install Centos on it?

 

I considered maybe using one, but I couldn´t bring myself to mess with them.  If you want to do that right, it´s probably a lot of work and costs as much as, or more then, a computer, and it remains limited to that particular purpose.  And it reminds me of what I started with --- I don´t want to go back in time like that.

 

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