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D13H4RD

The Google Pixel 2 XL's charge rate is capped at 10.5W

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Another day, another one of those "not so rosy" news for the Pixel 2 XL.

 

Nathan K has conducted an analysis on the Pixel 2 XL's charging rate and found out that its charge rate on the supplied 18W USB-C Power Delivery wallwart was capped at 10.5W. (If you don't know who Nathan K is, he's a person who does independent testing of USB-C equipment alongside Benson Leung, although Benson works for Google while Nathan is completely independent.)

 

Quote

Remember that video I shared earlier saying "needs better data"? This is the level of integrity I expect. Wireless ADB was used in conjunction with a +Plugable Twinkie and +Total Phase PD analyzers to capture data -- from both external sensors, and ones internal to the phone itself.

Of note: the HTC Pixel 1 Mini used multi-stage Li-Ion rapid charging. Two Three stages of constant-current, followed by a final constant-voltage stage.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2OJRSgNnm4Gc0d6UWxBY0JHdE0
https://imgur.com/a/mblQT

However the LG Pixel 2 XL uses a SINGLE stage of constant-current, followed by constant-voltage. This seems far less "optimized".

Source: https://plus.google.com/u/0/102612254593917101378/posts/dnYcjUFxsg7

 

Nathan speculates that this could be done in order to reduce strain on the battery, which makes sense considering what happened to last year's Galaxy Note7.

 

Quote

This suggests to me Google or LG is trying to avoid strain on the battery in order to maximize longevity. Rather than opting for performance, they are being extremely conservative with the charging current and temperature. (Given the battery degradation problems reported on the Nexus 6P, I can't blame them.)

Note: HTC Pixel 1 Mini peaked at 40°C 44°C and 13W@45% => 7.5W@85% for comparison. Plus it had a smaller battery that filled faster. The Pixel 1 XL, on the other hand, had a bigger battery with different, faster logic. Hence "more optimized".

This seems a bit of a waste of Type-C "15w/18w" rapid charging to me. Especially when it hogs a whole (9v@3a=) 27w from USB-PD power supplies like the Apple 87w due to the "PSU hog" bug I reported earlier.

Source: Same as above

 

While Google and LG would have good reasons on why they decided to be very conservative on their charge rate, supplying an 18W charger but only allowing the phone to use no more than slightly below 11W seems odd. Wondering if it would have been wise to go with a Power Delivery-compliant version of DASH/VOOC used in phones made by OnePlus and sister company Oppo.


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I think this is the sort of price you pay for a bigger battery when the phone has near enough the same specs as a smaller version. I'm not sure if I'm right here, but Google wanted the specs to be the same on both models, making charging issues for a bigger battery with the same specs.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, Sam. said:

I think this is the sort of price you pay for a bigger battery when the phone has near enough the same specs as a smaller version. I'm not sure if I'm right here, but Google wanted the specs to be the same on both models, making charging issues for a bigger battery with the same specs.

The thing I'm eager to know is whether the smaller HTC-made Pixel 2 has the same quirk.


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I would doubt it somehow, since it has a smaller battery and specs that are designed to match it. 


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flat,800x800,075,f.jpg


Awareness is key. Never enough, even in the face of futility. Speak the truth as if you may never get to say it again. This world is full of ugly. Change it they say. The only way is to reveal the ugly. To change the truth you must first acknowledge it. Never pretend it isn't there. Never bend the knee.

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
Just now, Sam. said:

I would doubt it somehow, since it has a smaller battery and specs that are designed to match it. 

Likely so.

 

Still, mighty interesting that the larger phone has a near-standard fare charging rate.


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Just now, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Likely so.

 

Still, mighty interesting that the larger phone has a near-standard fare charging rate.

It would make the price worth it a bit more if it had faster charging. But already charging speed is a bonus for the unit.


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14 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

flat,800x800,075,f.jpg

Gotta go fast.

 

-Not Google, 2017


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Posted · Original PosterOP
26 minutes ago, Sam. said:

It would make the price worth it a bit more if it had faster charging. But already charging speed is a bonus for the unit.

It's still rather odd that it has a higher rated wattage for the included wallwart but the actual charging speed is not really faster.


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1 minute ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

It's still rather odd that it has a higher rated wattage for the included wallwart but the actual charging speed is not really faster.

I suppose, but that's Google for you. To be fair, they have made weird choices with their products before. 


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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, Sam. said:

I suppose, but that's Google for you. To be fair, they have made weird choices with their products before. 

Indeed, Google is a weird company.

 

I just feel that they've been weirder as of late.


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6 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Indeed, Google is a weird company.

 

I just feel that they've been weirder as of late.

They have been, but with completely new products, they would be. 


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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Sam. said:

They have been, but with completely new products, they would be. 

Still wondering why they'd pick LG when the last phone they made in collaboration was bootlooping all over.


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3 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Still wondering why they'd pick LG when the last phone they made in collaboration was bootlooping all over.

I don't know why they roped anyone to make it at all. Google is a massive company and the first Pixel was really good.


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1 hour ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Another day, another one of those "not so rosy" news for the Pixel 2 XL.

 

Nathan K has conducted an analysis on the Pixel 2 XL's charging rate and found out that its charge rate on the supplied 18W USB-C Power Delivery wallwart was capped at 10.5W. (If you don't know who Nathan K is, he's a person who does independent testing of USB-C equipment alongside Benson Leung, although Benson works for Google while Nathan is completely independent.)

 

Source: https://plus.google.com/u/0/102612254593917101378/posts/dnYcjUFxsg7

 

Nathan speculates that this could be done in order to reduce strain on the battery, which makes sense considering what happened to last year's Galaxy Note7.

 

Source: Same as above

 

While Google and LG would have good reasons on why they decided to be very conservative on their charge rate, supplying an 18W charger but only allowing the phone to use no more than slightly below 11W seems odd. Wondering if it would have been wise to go with a Power Delivery-compliant version of DASH/VOOC used in phones made by OnePlus and sister company Oppo.

A) It's not an issue with Power Delivery. The phones are just doing more cautious thermal throttling.

and

B) There are no versions of alternative variable voltage charging that are spec-compliant with Power Delivery. Period. The USB-C Spec specifically states that the only alternate voltage charging method that's compliant is Power Delivery.

 

Honestly, I'm kind of glad they capped this. Charging and using Daydream at the same time on the Pixel 1 XL was a nightmare. It would rapidly heat up and sometimes even reboot the device due to overheating. If you wanted to do extended sessions you had to manually limit the charging voltage with a third party adapter.

 

50 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

The thing I'm eager to know is whether the smaller HTC-made Pixel 2 has the same quirk.

It does not. The standard size Pixel 1 and Pixel 2 don't have the same issue with temperature throttling because they throttle earlier due to capacity.

 

4 minutes ago, Sam. said:

I don't know why they roped anyone to make it at all. Google is a massive company and the first Pixel was really good.

Because Google has no manufacturing. Also note that Apple and Microsoft have no manufacturing either.

 

Google needed someone else to make it. In the case of the Pixel 1, Pixel 1 XL, and Pixel 2 that's HTC. Likely due to costs and difficulties of assembling the display assembly, they went with LG for the 2XL, who is also the manufacturer of the Display panels.

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1 minute ago, Sniperfox47 said:

A) It's not an issue with Power Delivery. The phones are just doing more cautious thermal throttling.

and

B) There are no versions of alternative variable voltage charging that are spec-compliant with Power Delivery. Period. The USB-C Spec specifically states that the only alternate voltage charging method that's compliant is Power Delivery.

 

Honestly, I'm kind of glad they capped this. Charging and using Daydream at the same time on the Pixel 1 XL was a nightmare. It would rapidly heat up and sometimes even reboot the device due to overheating. If you wanted to do extended sessions you had to manually limit the charging voltage with a third party adapter.

 

It does not. The standard size Pixel 1 and Pixel 2 don't have the same issue with temperature throttling because they throttle earlier due to capacity.

 

Because Google has no manufacturing. Also note that Apple and Microsoft have no manufacturing either.

 

Google needed someone else to make it. In the case of the Pixel 1, Pixel 1 XL, and Pixel 2 that's HTC. Likely due to costs and difficulties of assembling the display assembly, they went with LG for the 2XL, who is also the manufacturer of the Display panels.

They design the phones tho to my understanding, as both LG and HTC have factories actually make the devices for them, not their own factories.


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Just now, Sam. said:

They design the phones tho to my understanding, as both LG and HTC have factories actually make the devices.

Google designs the phones, with input from HTC on things like manufacturing constraints and modem placement, things the Hardware Team at Google had no experience with prior to the Pixel.

 

HTC, and LG, do the contract manufacturing, and likely QC.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
15 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

A) It's not an issue with Power Delivery. The phones are just doing more cautious thermal throttling.

and

B) There are no versions of alternative variable voltage charging that are spec-compliant with Power Delivery. Period. The USB-C Spec specifically states that the only alternate voltage charging method that's compliant is Power Delivery.

 

Honestly, I'm kind of glad they capped this. Charging and using Daydream at the same time on the Pixel 1 XL was a nightmare. It would rapidly heat up and sometimes even reboot the device due to overheating. If you wanted to do extended sessions you had to manually limit the charging voltage with a third party adapter.

I don't think it's a bad thing at all either.

 

The phones last a whole day on a charge with medium-heavy use anyhow, so fast charging isn't as big of a deal.

 

It's just odd when you hear that it's an 18W adapter but it's capped at 10.


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Just now, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

I don't think it's a bad thing at all either.

 

The phones last a whole day on a charge with medium-heavy use anyhow, so fast charging isn't as big of a deal.

 

It's just odd when you hear that it's an 18W adapter but it's capped at 10.

I'll be interested to see if they tweak the charging rate with Android 8.1 which is due out in a month or two. They probably include an 18W wart to maintain a consistent charger across devices. Especially since AFAIK they're no longer producing their old black 15W charger.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Sniperfox47 said:

I'll be interested to see if they tweak the charging rate with Android 8.1 which is due out in a month or two. They probably include an 18W wart to maintain a consistent charger across devices. Especially since AFAIK they're no longer producing their old black 15W charger.

Probably not much will be changed.

 

It could be intentional in order to maintain battery health, which is totally fine by me since the phone already has very solid battery life 


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Google: Releasing bad phones since 2014


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This thread has sort of blown up. But it is an issue that confuses me as to why the limit would be imposed. I had no idea this was happening. :(


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my 6s+ charges at 12w.

 

apple beat ya, again.


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4 minutes ago, themctipers said:

my 6s+ charges at 12w.

 

apple beat ya, again.

the iPhone 6s supports 10 and 12w Apple Chargers but effectively only uses 5w as does all iPhones before iPhone 8 and X series.


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Just now, AluminiumTech said:

the iPhone 6s supports 10 and 12w Apple Chargers but effectively only uses 5w as does all iPhones before iPhone 8 and X series.

It charges much faster. 

People say that with iPhone 7, and iPhone 6s, and iPhone 6, and iPhone 5s.. and then iPhone 5.... And that 30pin doesn't support >5w... (WHICH I HAD A 4 WHICH WOULD CHARGE AT >5W!)


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138 is a good number.

 

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