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ChiefGunny

Ryzen beating intel with Very low latency ram?

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Check out this vid and give me your thoughts and has LTT tried this. Im a dumbass when it comes to this but it seems to make a huge diff in Ryzen. Also please someone explain this vid to me in dumbass terms lol

 

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Games are accelerated by lots and lots of cache. 

 

Ryzen has LOTS of it, but due to the infinity fabric design (two cpus """glued together""" as Intel calls it) each CCX has 8MB - If an app wants to access a bit of data on another CCX's cache, then it has to go through the Infinity Fabric (the bottleneck in this situation). The Infinity Fabric runs at half of RAM effective speed. (if ram is 3200Mhz, IF runs at 1600Mhz). 


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4 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

Games are accelerated by lots and lots of cache. 

 

Ryzen has LOTS of it, but due to the infinity fabric design (two cpus """glued together""" as Intel calls it) each CCX has 8MB - If an app wants to access a bit of data on another CCX's cache, then it has to go through the Infinity Fabric (the bottleneck in this situation). The Infinity Fabric runs at half of RAM effective speed. (if ram is 3200Mhz, IF runs at 1600Mhz). 

So, faster RAM = lower latency?

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Just now, Cinnabar Sonar said:

So, faster RAM = lower latency?

Yep. 


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Just now, Droidbot said:

Yep. 

Catch 22, Ryzen works better with faster RAM, but it's harder to get RAM to run faster on Ryzen.  :P

It's much better than on launch though, i'm running 3200Mhz on a 1920x.  It is a kit that was specifically certified for Ryzen though.

Hopefully AMD improves the memory controller on Zen 2.

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1 minute ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

Catch 22, Ryzen works better with faster RAM, but it's harder to get RAM to run faster on Ryzen.  :P

It's much better than on launch though, i'm running 3200Mhz on a 1920x.  It is a kit that was specifically certified for Ryzen though.

Hopefully AMD improves the memory controller on Zen 2.

the problem they had was that lower end kits ran with either t1 or t2 command rate, and at t1 they often ran worse. 

intel imcs dont care whatever they run at, as long as they do

ryzen forced t1 before agesa 1006, so lots of low end kits refused to work at rated speeds.


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- SteelSeries Siberia 650

- SteelSeries QcK+ CS:GO Camo 

- SteelSeries QcK+ Na'Vi Splash (Secondary pad, used for second rig)

- SteelSeries Rival 700

- SteelSeries Rival 300 (Secondary mouse, used for second rig)

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

the problem they had was that lower end kits ran with either t1 or t2 command rate, and at t1 they often ran worse. 

intel imcs dont care whatever they run at, as long as they do

ryzen forced t1 before agesa 1006, so lots of low end kits refused to work at rated speeds.

I knew about Ryzen liking Samsung B DIEs, but I didn't know about that.

Any reason for that limitation?

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5 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

Catch 22, Ryzen works better with faster RAM, but it's harder to get RAM to run faster on Ryzen.  :P

It's much better than on launch though, i'm running 3200Mhz on a 1920x.  It is a kit that was specifically certified for Ryzen though.

Hopefully AMD improves the memory controller on Zen 2.

I have had 3466Mhz 14-14-14-34-48-1T ram stable for a few months now.

 

If you have good memory, its rock solid.


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17 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

glued together

This is actually a proper term and not Intel poking fun at Intel according to someone at Anandtech I think. Linus went after Intel for this on WAN show and a few other things they did when Ryzen launched and someone tweeted at Liuns that "glued together" wasn't technically an insult.


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Just now, unknownmiscreant said:

I have had 3466Mhz 14-14-14-34-48-1T ram stable for a few months now.

 

If you have good memory, its rock solid.

So, as long as you don't have CHEAP memory, you are good?

1 minute ago, Bensemus said:

This is actually a proper term and not Intel poking fun at Intel according to someone at Anandtech I think. Linus went after Intel for this on WAN show and a few other things they did when Ryzen launched and someone tweeted at Liuns that "glued together" wasn't technically an insult.

Technically, no,  But in context, it definitely was an insult.  "Don't go with AMD, they use glued together DIEs"

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2 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

So, as long as you don't have CHEAP memory, you are good?

Technically, no,  But in context, it definitely was an insult.  "Don't go with AMD, they use glued together DIEs"

Basically yeah. Most of the complaints I have seen come from people who have cheap memory. I have a 16gb 3200MHz CL14 kit from G skill. My brother's ryzen system with  3000MHz corsair vengeance memory won't boot at anything more than 2667MHz. Yet it can run my flare X at 3200MHz.

 

My C6H can run his memory at 3000Mhz though.... IDK.


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4 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

So, as long as you don't have CHEAP memory, you are good?

Technically, no,  But in context, it definitely was an insult.  "Don't go with AMD, they use glued together DIEs"

 

In fairness to Intel... AMD did literally the exact same thing to Intel back in the days of Pentium, so it was more than a little bit of Intel calling them out.


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13 minutes ago, Bensemus said:

This is actually a proper term and not Intel poking fun at Intel according to someone at Anandtech I think. Linus went after Intel for this on WAN show and a few other things they did when Ryzen launched and someone tweeted at Liuns that "glued together" wasn't technically an insult.

glued together is exactly what Intel did with their cpu die 


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29 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

So, faster RAM = lower latency?

Yes but not necessarily. Latency is affected both by clock rate, and number of clock cycles.

21 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

Catch 22, Ryzen works better with faster RAM, but it's harder to get RAM to run faster on Ryzen.  :P

I'm seeing, with AGESA 1.0.0.6a, my Corsair kits rated at 3000 run at 2933 without much bother. Why Corsair, cos everyone seems to sell the things.

19 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

the problem they had was that lower end kits ran with either t1 or t2 command rate, and at t1 they often ran worse. 

intel imcs dont care whatever they run at, as long as they do

ryzen forced t1 before agesa 1006, so lots of low end kits refused to work at rated speeds.

That's more of a problem with Ryzen itself than the ram. The system should pick appropriate settings, and they simply didn't have that level of control at the time.

16 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

I knew about Ryzen liking Samsung B DIEs, but I didn't know about that.

I only just started trying for high performance ram on Intel side, and B-die it the in thing there... it isn't helpful due to cost premium that it is the preferred choice for Ryzen too. 

10 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

So, as long as you don't have CHEAP memory, you are good?

Don't think price really matters too much, at least where I am the unbranded cheap kits don't cost much different from the branded cheap kits, so I end up with ever more Corsair Vengeance LPX and Kingston Hyper-X. Just need to round down to nearest supported ram speed, and watch out bios doesn't try fsb overclocking to get the rated ram speed.


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I want to see : 

R6 1600X + GSkill 16GB 3200MHz CL14 vs 8700K + GSkill 16GB 3200MHz CL14

R7 1700X + GSkill 16GB 3200MHz CL14 vs 8700K + GSkill 16GB 3200MHz CL14


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1 hour ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

I know that the infinity fabric's speed is dependent on the RAM.  Although my knowledge is limited on the subject.

Yes, IF clockspeed is directly tied to the RAM speed aka RAM at 3000 MT/s runs at 1500 mHz memory, so the IF runs at 1500 mHz.


Ye ole' train

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I'm pretty sure AMD will tweak the next Ryzen iterations a lot in the memory department. It looks like the cores themselves don't need much change, meanwhile infinity fabric and the memory subsystem have great impact on performance.


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50 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

You might have the same exact kit as me.  :P

 

This is what I bought. 

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/MEMGSK11030/GSKILL-Flare-X-F4-3200C14D-16GFX-for-AMD-Ryzen-16G

 

35 minutes ago, Tic-Tac said:

I want to see : 

R6 1600X + GSkill 16GB 3200MHz CL14 vs 8700K + GSkill 16GB 3200MHz CL14

R7 1700X + GSkill 16GB 3200MHz CL14 vs 8700K + GSkill 16GB 3200MHz CL14

I can provide the 1700x numbers. If we can find someone with the other systems then we could do a crowd sourced review. 


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Main rig:

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EVGA GTX 1070 FTW ACX 3.0

16GB G. Skill Flare X 3466MHz CL14

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EVGA SuperNova 850 G2

Intel 540s 240GB, Intel 520 240GB + WD Black 500GB

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Asus Strix Soar

 

Laptop:

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i7-3520M + On board GPU

16GB 1600MHz DDR3.

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10 minutes ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232530

Heat spreader looks a little different, but the specs seem identical.

Same part number. You should be able to get it to 3466 or 3600.

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?93722-Flare-X-3200MHZ-16GB-2x8-F4-3200C14D-16GFX-Performance-amp-Guide

Although from the benchmarks I think 3600 actually gives lower performance overall due to decreased write speed. But latency is better. 


Sync RGB fans with motherboard RGB header.

 

Main rig:

Ryzen 7 1700x (4.05GHz)

EVGA GTX 1070 FTW ACX 3.0

16GB G. Skill Flare X 3466MHz CL14

Crosshair VI Hero

EK Supremacy Evo

EVGA SuperNova 850 G2

Intel 540s 240GB, Intel 520 240GB + WD Black 500GB

Corsair Crystal Series 460x

Asus Strix Soar

 

Laptop:

Dell E6430s

i7-3520M + On board GPU

16GB 1600MHz DDR3.

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10 hours ago, unknownmiscreant said:

Same part number. You should be able to get it to 3466 or 3600.

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?93722-Flare-X-3200MHZ-16GB-2x8-F4-3200C14D-16GFX-Performance-amp-Guide

Although from the benchmarks I think 3600 actually gives lower performance overall due to decreased write speed. But latency is better. 

I'll try it out once I get an extra kit for quad channel.

 

Edit: Decided to try it right now, everything seems to work well on 3466.

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