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Expect 5G to be available in 2019, might bring back unlimited data*, Qualcomm performs the first 5G test and debuts 5G reference smartphone design

5g and wireless carriers  

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  1. 1. Do you think your current wireless carrier will bring back true unlimited data (no throttling, no high speed data caps)?



*By unlimited data, we meant that we'll throttle you after 50 GB. This ain't your home broadband son." - Your greedy wireless carrier :P

 

Sources: IEEE Spectrum, CNET, The Verge, Qualcomm

Quote

"Once 5G arrives on a nationwide basis, there is so much bandwidth available that we will have pretty much unlimited access to data," predicted Forrester analyst Dan Bieler.

 

5G will indeed be able to send data faster than 4G -- probably something like 10 times faster than the new advanced versions of 4G. But those peak speeds often exist only in ideal conditions. By contrast, 5G should be more reliably fast. In other words, you'll still be able to update Facebook, send that email attachment and stream your favorite TV show, even in crowded areas like city centers and stadiums where today's 4G networks often struggle.

 

5G stands for fifth-generation network technology, and it should transform our digital lives as profoundly as previous generational shifts. Back in the 1990s, 2G was mostly good enough for text only, but 3G opened up the world of photo sharing and 4G made streaming video practical. 5G won't just boost reliability, though. It could also accelerate new technologies like augmented reality, help self-driving cars send time-critical messages to one another, and link to the network everything from pollution sensors to health monitors.

Coming sooner than you thought

5G networks are expected to arrive in 2019. The conventional wisdom is that the early examples will be for what's called "fixed wireless" connections, bringing fast broadband to your house without having to dig a pesky trench for a fiber-optic cable. However, Qualcomm, a top maker of mobile chips and radio technology, insists 5G will come to your phone that year, too.

"What drove industry support is that global demand for mobile broadband continues to rise," said Matt Branda, Qualcomm's director of 5G technical marketing. "Things are lining up to make this a reality in 2019 in your smartphones."

 

Qualcomm announced further progress Tuesday in Asia. Its Snapdragon X50 5G NR Modem, a chip for 5G phones, has made its first 5G connection. It was in carefully controlled lab conditions, but it was able to receive data at a gigabit per second, said Sherif Hanna, manager of 4G and 5G product marketing.

 

"Our intention is to put this into mobile devices and start testing them in the real world," Hanna said, and Qualcomm expects the chip will reach 5Gbps data-transfer speeds. If you've followed 5G networking, you may remember a promised delivery date of 2020. But the network industry have managed to speed up some parts of the standardization work. There are plenty of pilot projects, too. The highest profile likely will be the 2018 Olympics in South Korea, a country obsessed with super-fast networks. 5G network equipment will be expensive to install. Network operators will need upgrade all of their base stations, the central radio towers our phones talk to. They'll also have to install more base stations for closer spacing and upgrade stations' connections back to the main network. It's worth it to the network operators, though, because 5G will let them satisfy our data demands.

image.png.69fed8597ad2a75a56f0c98d37edbdd4.png

First of all, I'm glad that no wireless carrier at the moment is calling their "next generation network" 5G just yet. Remember when 4G specs where not yet released and yet carriers rushed to have their own brand of 4G? AT&T and T-Mobile called "HSPA+" 4G even though it's more 3.5-3.75G.

Sprint and many carriers around the world called WiMax as 4G (Remember the HTC Evo 4G) which is more like WiFi on steroids (IEEE 802.16). 

and the LTE we know today is not truly 4G as it doesn't met the required specifications of 4G so it's just 3.9G. The only one considered truly as 4G is LTE-Advanced.

How 5G works? IEEE Spectrum said that it needs, millimeter waves, small cells, massive MIMO, and full duplex which can be found from their YouTube channel.

Quote

Millimeter waves are broadcast at frequencies between 30 and 300 gigahertz, compared to the bands below 6 GHz that were used for mobile devices in the past. They are called millimeter waves because they vary in length from 1 to 10 mm, compared to the radio waves that serve today’s smartphones, which measure tens of centimeters in length. There is one major drawback to millimeter waves, though—they can’t easily travel through buildings or obstacles and they can be absorbed by foliage and rain. That’s why 5G networks will likely augment traditional cellular towers with another new technology, called small cells.

 

Small cells are portable miniature base stations that require minimal power to operate and can be placed every 250 meters or so throughout cities. To prevent signals from being dropped, carriers could install thousands of these stations in a city to form a dense network that acts like a relay team, receiving signals from other base stations and sending data to users at any location.

I know someone can explain this to me better but what if carriers refarm and repurpose their existing low frequency spectrum to 5G? I think adding small cells in towns could be just as expensive as upgrading towers and base stations. Although when they said that there would be too much bandwidth left carriers might brick back unlimited data but I'll take that with a grain of salt. While the idea is very good, I don't think it will be a sustainable business model in the long run because radio waves can only carry so much data and has to be shared with many people in a vicinity of a tower unlike a dedicated fiber to the home (FTTH) which can be true unlimited data. But of course, with a next generation network needs new hardware like phones nowadays with LTE modems won't take advantage of 5G. Also, "unlimited data" kinda lost its meaning because wireless carriers butchered its definition because of their marketing departments. Instead of being true unlimited data without high speed data caps, no throttling and no overages, nowadays it just meant that they'll not charge you overages.

 

Now Qualcomm just tested their own 5G modem on a mobile device and they even release a future 5G smartphone reference.

Quote

x50_modem_hand.0.jpg

Qualcomm’s long march towards 5G took a few steps closer to reality today, as the company has announced that it has completed its first test of a 5G connection on a mobile device. The test was completed using the X50 5G modem first announced a year ago and was performed on the 28GHz millimeter wave frequency band. Qualcomm says the modem achieved gigabit speeds in this test, but it is capable of 5Gbps speeds once full 5G deployments are completed.

 

In addition, Qualcomm announced its first 5G smartphone reference design, which it will use to test 5G modems, radios, and networks with smartphone makers over the next year or two as they prepare to release 5G-compatible smartphones in the first half of 2019. The reference design is 9mm thick and features an edge-to-edge display, like many current smartphones available today have.

5G_mmWave_QRD_Press_Image.jpg

To make the X50 modem work in a smartphone form-factor, Qualcomm developed a new millimeter wave antenna that’s roughly the size of a dime. The company says that it can fit two of these antennas in a smartphone, and though it is already the smallest millimeter wave design available, the plans are to shrink it by another 50 percent over the next twelve months.

An antenna the size of a dime? That's big. But if it means slightly thicker phones with more battery inside, I'm fine with it. I hope 5G will stop Apple and other OEMs obsessions why skinny phones with dinky batteries. Maybe in 2019 Apple will make an iPhone as thick as the iPhone 4/4s (9.3 mm) but with 4000 mAh battery.

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Unlimited data will not be a thing at least for Australia and similar countries in the next 20-30 years. At the end of the day it's all down to bandwidth: whether you get the connection via 4G, 5G, fixed wireless, NBN, fibre or any other method, there's still bandwidth costs from carriers - also known as IP transit, this is the cost to get from the carrier network to other networks where other services are connected. E.g to get from the NBNCo network to Vocus who might be one of the carriers for Google here in Australia, there's a $/Mbit/s charge.

 

As long as that cost remains high, a connection where your only limit is the speed you pay for (e.g. 100/100Mbps) will not be financially available as the vast majority of connections are oversold: the service provider will by T amount of speed to go between their network and another provider (Vocus, Telstra)  while they'll sell 50 x T to their clients, planning on not all clients using the max bandwidth they buy.

 

The only way you can get those guaranteed speeds is by paying for a premium service: Telstra's business fibre 100/100 starts at $1150 a month.

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7 minutes ago, Windspeed36 said:

Unlimited data will not be a thing at least for Australia and similar countries in the next 20-30 years. At the end of the day it's all down to bandwidth: whether you get the connection via 4G, 5G, fixed wireless, NBN, fibre or any other method,

Wait? Australia doesn’t have unlimited data for wired internet? If it’s wireless internet like 4G or 5G I can understand but wired internet with data caps for australian people? ?

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21 minutes ago, CUDA_Cores said:

I think 5G will actually come back. It'll be some crappy company like t-mobile 

T mobile is crappy over there? They're solid here. 

 

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7 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Wait? Australia doesn’t have unlimited data for wired internet? If it’s wireless internet like 4G or 5G I can understand but wired internet with data caps for australian people? ?

It's rare with proper bandwidth:

 

  • Australia's current DSL network (ADSL, VDSL, EFM & EOC) can't guarantee a speed due to the physical state thus is removed from this discussion. This includes NBNCo FTTB / FTTN where DSL services are present.
  • NBNCo FTTP and HFC are able to guarantee speeds however due to the cross connection costs charged by NBNCo (~$15 / Mbps), this means that a true 100/100 connection is in the thousands a month, not $99 from Telstra / Optus / iiNet
  • Dedicated FTP (Vocus, Optus, TPG, Telstra, Exetel) This can have guaranteed speeds however again contention is an issue: TPG may offer a 400/400 service (Fibre400) for certain CBD addresses however at $399/month there is no way it covers the costs to transit internationally at anywhere near that speed. The costs to get off this island are still simply too great. Even transiting to other carriers such as Vocus and Optus is a struggle on this service - I've done quite a bit of testing on a few of our clients who have this connection. Telstra charges in the high 4 digits for true 99.99% speed guarantee on their fibre services. 
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2 minutes ago, Windspeed36 said:

It's rare with proper bandwidth:

Ouch. I pay $50 for my 20 down 20 up + cable TV fiber connection. While my connection isn’t the fastest but I’m glad latency is below 10 ms. 

 

Looks like New Zealand’s internet is better but then, they only have 5 million people in comparison to Australia with 23 million people. 

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29 minutes ago, coolkingler1 said:

T mobile is crappy over there? They're solid here. 

 

TMobile is pleb tier in my area with Verizon being better. As a whole, TMobile is 3rd of the 4 major carriers.

 

 

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When will people learn... 4G phones are more than enough right now,  the band with bottleneck is on the ISP side, not on the phone... so why do they insist on pushing those useless tech and why do people even buy into that...

Isp price gauging in some country is so damn ridiculous i have to keep an international data plan from France to pay less for more in Switzerland for instance. And it would still be viable in other digital 3rd world countries like the US.

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12 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

When will people learn... 4G phones are more than enough right now,

I’m pretty sure so many people have said the same thing that 3G is more than enough when LTE was launched. In fact, so many people like investors have called wireless carriers insane for investing on mobile broadband way back in early 2000s where they’re insisting that calling and texting are enough. 

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8 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

I’m pretty sure so many people have said the same thing that 3G is more than enough when LTE was launched. In fact, so many people like investors have called wireless carriers insane for investing on mobile broadband way back in early 2000s where they insist that calling and texting are enough. 

They also said that wireless would never be capable of said speeds or coverage (we already have 800-900Mb/s mobile internet available in Sydney) (edit: not that you can actually get it that fast for yourself for the reasons Windspeed listed above).  

 

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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25 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

I’m pretty sure so many people have said the same thing that 3G is more than enough when LTE was launched. In fact, so many people like investors have called wireless carriers insane for investing on mobile broadband way back in early 2000s where they’re insisting that calling and texting are enough. 

The thing is, people seem to not realize you can use these cellular networks for home Internet.  No lines, just need a good SIM router and antennas, and bam, you got speeds and latency that beats satellite providers in the country side.  Reason I just shake my head at these providers.  They could easily claim customers all over the country side.

 

This 5G is interesting.  Hopefully it does open up unlimited data plans or something.  Be nice if I can setup a home Internet to use that instead of the crap Satellite (going to drop it soon and setup an antenna and SIM router).  Some of the videos I watch to research for using cellular networks for home Internet show streaming HD videos off of 4G LTE networks.  Only problem, finding a darn plan that don't eat you alive or limit, but seems if you know which tower to aim at you hardly lose speed even when losing higher priority.  Of course, I plan to go a slight over kill with getting some darn good antennas and a business class SIM router that can take any SIM card and work across all available cellular bands.  :P

 

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8 minutes ago, Ithanul said:

The thing is, people seem to not realize you can use these cellular networks for home Internet.  No lines, just need a good SIM router and antennas, and bam, you got speeds and latency that beats satellite providers in the country side.  Reason I just shake my head at these providers.  They could easily claim customers all over the country side

While I agree that LTE and even 5G can compete with wired solutions like DSL. I think rolling out fiber optic backbone is just as important. Remember that LTE and 5G requires fiber optic cables to transmit data from a cell tower to a base station. But yes, last mile wireless home internet using LTE/5G is good especially for rural areas. My parents used to have canopy wireless internet but then fiber became available so I switched them to fiber. 

 

LTE is actually better than satellite internet and has way lower latency than satellite.

13 minutes ago, Ithanul said:

This 5G is interesting.  Hopefully it does open up unlimited data plans or something

I hope so but given how greedy wireless carriers are, they'll probably stick to data caps especially 5G requires replacing old equipment with much newer ones and some additional equipment like small cells (femtocells) because millimeter waves are have a very short coverage and can be easily blocked by rain or trees. Small cells are meant to solve bottlenecks of millimeter waves.

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1 hour ago, hey_yo_ said:

I’m pretty sure so many people have said the same thing that 3G is more than enough when LTE was launched. In fact, so many people like investors have called wireless carriers insane for investing on mobile broadband way back in early 2000s where they’re insisting that calling and texting are enough. 

As of now your phone can handle more data in than what your provider will give you anyway.

And the few networks which Don't move too fast into new networks are often the most reliable. There are so many countries where coverage is so spotty just because carriers just don't care enough to have a good one and prefer changing distribution methods in bigger cities and leave behind everywhere else.

And now.. do you really need a 1GB/s connection on your phone? To do what? Download something very fast? From where?

To download the equivalent of your phone storage in less than 5min? To watch videos in 4K on small was screens on which you wouldn't see the difference between 4K and 1440p and even 1080p?

To use it as an internet connection for your computer? Good luck finding any affordable ssd supporting that speed anyway (and that's assuming you'd get this data rate through your Usb port without any issues...)

They would be better off bettering their 4G networks so everyone can get close to the max data rate that their 4g phones can go up to. Better for everyone, since people wouldn't have to change their phones...

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6 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

While I agree that LTE and even 5G can compete with wired solutions like DSL. I think rolling out fiber optic backbone is just as important. Remember that LTE and 5G requires fiber optic cables to transmit data from a cell tower to a base station. But yes, last mile wireless home internet using LTE/5G is good especially for rural areas. My parents used to have canopy wireless internet but then fiber became available so I switched them to fiber. 

 

LTE is actually better than satellite internet and has way lower latency than satellite.

I hope so but given how greedy wireless carriers are, they'll probably stick to data caps especially 5G requires replacing old equipment with much newer ones and some additional equipment like small cells (femtocells) because millimeter waves are have a very short coverage and can be easily blocked by rain or trees. Small cells are meant to solve bottlenecks of millimeter waves.

Yeah, I can see fiber still important for cities and large population areas, especially the network hubs and towers.  Though, trying to do that across rural areas is not going to work really well for a large country.  That where I hope the cellular networks can work out, if the providers can stop being crap tards about providing affordable home Internet plans for us folks in the country side.  Then again, they rape us over our cell phone bills, so my hopes are not high at all.

 

I'm aware that the LTE is better than sat.  Major reason I been researching to use cellular for my home Internet once I am back State side.  Only issue I still working around is finding a plan that don't eat my pay check alive each month.

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3 minutes ago, Ithanul said:

'm aware that the LTE is better than sat.  Major reason I been researching to use cellular for my home Internet once I am back State side.  Only issue I still working around is finding a plan that don't eat my pay check alive each month.

Are you from the US? AT&T is currently offering one

 

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8 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Are you from the US? AT&T is currently offering one

 

I can't even get it.  And, I live in Alabama when state side.  I already research into it.  People are already being turned away.  Also, they lock you into their equipment, which I have a high dislike to that practice (another reason I want to get away from sat).  The major slap in the face about it...one of their towers is the closest one to me.

 

These PR stunts are the major reason I don't trust what these cellular providers claim in the States.  Claim to provide in 18 States, but don't cover all the rural areas within them.  Yeah, butt load of bull.

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@Ithanul @hey_yo_ 

 

You guys should look into the Calyx Institute, which is a charity that has a deal with Sprint for truly unlimited use of the Sprint 4G network. I saw these guys at Defcon in Vegas this year, and almost bought one of their licenses until I remembered Sprint service is crap where I live. Long story short, a smaller ISP that got bought by Sprint owned some spectrum that by federal law was to be used for educational purposes, meaning that Sprint has to allow any non-profit organization unlimited access to their network. The Calyx Institute is primarily an internet rights charity, fighting for VPN and TOR usage, while fighting against government intrusion. However, they realized they could make some money on the side by selling unlimited access to the Sprint network. They offer the truly unlimited sprint network access for $500 for the first year, and $400 a year every year after that. There are accounts online of people downloading 50+ GB on the service without any throttling or data caps. Best part is, since it's a charity, the cost of the subscription is tax-deductible, as well as supporting internet rights and granting you unlimited mobile data. 

 

This is honestly one of the best kept secrets on mobile data, I should probably tell people about it more often.

 

Source:

http://nymag.com/selectall/2016/09/unlimited-data-hotspot-on-sprint-lte-from-calyx-institute.html

https://www.calyxinstitute.org/news/calyx-institute-now-has-access-sprints-4g-lte-data-network-and-you-can-get-full-year-wireless

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14 minutes ago, CommandMan7 said:

This is honestly one of the best kept secrets on mobile data, I should probably tell people about it more often.

But then, how fast and stable could it get during times of congestion? Most wireless home internet solutions, many of which are popular in Asia areusing an outside canopy as antenna. Previously, they use WiMax which is crappy and then changed to TD-LTE. 

images.jpeg.81b8d5f40bbd3e6220547e83797b782f.jpeg

I don’t know how good that one from Calyx is but based from my experience, data caps for wireless is just inevitable. That’s why when they said that 5G has so much bandwidth left that it can bring back true unlimited data, I’m skeptical. 

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18 minutes ago, CommandMan7 said:

There are accounts online of people downloading 50+ GB on the service without any throttling or data caps.

How many people signed up for this? Without throttling? How long? true unlimited data for wireless is an unsustainable business model given how cheap they charge in my opinion but again, their activism for internet freedom is something to be praised and looked upon.

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8 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

How many people signed up for this? Without throttling? How long? true unlimited data for wireless is an unsustainable business model given how cheap they charge in my opinion but again, their activism for internet freedom is something to be praised and looked upon.

Idk how many people use it, there's no throttling as far as anyone can tell, and it's been going since April 2016. Although as you said, true unlimited isn't sustainable, the reason why the Calyx Institute can provide it is because of government legislation that forces Sprint to provide access to their network. Sprint is most certainly losing money because of this, but they have to continue offering it for legal reasons.

 

Straight from Calyx's website:

Quote

For legal reasons, we can't call it unlimited data service, but..... We are supposed to refer to it as 30 GB+.. however when you pass the 30GB mark during the month, the Internet service does not slow down (throttle), or cut you off, and there are NO overage charges. 

 

Pretty much, this only exists because of federal regulations and you are guaranteed true unlimited by law, with the caveat of network congestion of course, but any solution has some level of congestion. It depends on the specific location I guess. 

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46 minutes ago, CommandMan7 said:

@Ithanul @hey_yo_ 

 

-snip-

Hmmm, I may look into that as well then.

Spirit not big in the area, but I am going to be using dual Yagi antennas with high gain to aim at a cellular tower (the SIM router I plan to get allows two antennas).  So, as long as one tower is near enough, I can get the network.

 

Seriously, though if I can get it, 500 bucks a year comes out to like 42 bucks a month.  That would slash my Internet bill in half for each month.   Hmmm, they give a Netgear hotspot, wonder if they allow the SIM to be switched into a different SIM router instead?

25 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

How many people signed up for this? Without throttling? How long? true unlimited data for wireless is an unsustainable business model given how cheap they charge in my opinion but again, their activism for internet freedom is something to be praised and looked upon.

There are unlimited packages, but most I found are expensive.  Some I found range from 90 to over 150 to even 200 bucks a month.  Reason I stated me trying to  find one that won't rape my pay check.  What is nutty, is all of the ones I find are pretty much running off the four big cellular providers.

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4 minutes ago, Ithanul said:

Hmmm, I may look into that as well then.

Spirit not big in the area, but I am going to be using dual Yagi antennas with high gain to aim at a cellular tower (the SIM router I plan to get allows two antennas).  So, as long as one tower is near enough, I can get the network.

 

Seriously, though if I can get it, 500 bucks a year comes out to like 42 bucks a month.  That would slash my Internet bill in half for each month.

There are unlimited packages, but most I found are expensive.  Some I found range from 90 to over 150 to even 200 bucks a month.  Reason I stated me trying to  find one that won't rape my pay check.  What is nutty, is all of the ones I find are pretty much running off the four big cellular providers.

You can technically use Sprint's coverage tool to see how it'd be, but it seems to be exaggerated compared to what I've seen IRL. At the very least it'd help you figure out where the nearest tower is. Also, I'm not sure if the subscription is linked to the pocket router they give you, or if you can transfer the SIM card, so you might want to research into that first.

 

Sprint coverage tool:

https://coverage.sprint.com/IMPACT.jsp?#!/

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Unlimted 5G- you Just need to stand in one of the few streets that have it. Then once enough people have updated the phone plan we'll downgrade you. Muhahaha you're hooked in now. 

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13 minutes ago, CommandMan7 said:

You can technically use Sprint's coverage tool to see how it'd be, but it seems to be exaggerated compared to what I've seen IRL. At the very least it'd help you figure out where the nearest tower is. Also, I'm not sure if the subscription is linked to the pocket router they give you, or if you can transfer the SIM card, so you might want to research into that first.

 

Sprint coverage tool:

https://coverage.sprint.com/IMPACT.jsp?#!/

I just looked at the pocket WiFis.  One they are offering allows dual antenna ports but hidden.   So, if I can't transfer the SIM, I can still setup dual Yagi antennas.

 

By looking at that coverage tool, I am lucky enough to just fall into coverage (barely).

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