High end AM4 Micro ATX motherboard?

[SuperShires]

Just wondering if there is any or any news on top end AM4 micro ATX motherboards available? Planning on upgrading my computer in the future and I'm pretty much just waiting for a decent motherboard in M-ATX form factor

 

What I mean by high end is the likes of similar mobos to Asus ROG Strix Z270 and similar. All the ones I've seen are budget orientated and I plan on doing a custom loop and going all out pretty much.

 

Thanks

[TVwazhere]

All the mATX board available are b350 chipsets.  

[kalnick]

6 minutes ago, SuperShires said:

Just wondering if there is any or any news on top end AM4 micro ATX motherboards available? Planning on upgrading my computer in the future and I'm pretty much just waiting for a decent motherboard in M-ATX form factor

 

What I mean by high end is the likes of similar mobos to Asus ROG Strix Z270 and similar. All the ones I've seen are budget orientated and I plan on doing a custom loop and going all out pretty much.

 

Thanks

There is only the one -that i know of- x370 board by biostar. I heard rumers asus might come out with one but who knows

 

Biostar - X370GT3 Micro ATX

[ABehery]

I have been searching for one recently, and bought Asus TUF B350M-Plus as it is the best currently, as @dave_k informed me, they have similar mosfets as the Asus Strix B350, so as long as you're not doing crazy OC you'll be fine.

 

Will give you feedback if you want as soon as I put the system together.

[just_dave]

There are no "high end" AM4 mATX boards. Asus TUF B350M Plus would be the "best", but it is still B350 with (sorta) trash VRM, so your cap is 8 core at 1.33V 3.7GHz

[dizmo]

I imagine it'll be another year or so before you see higher end motherboards come out for AM4. Intel has proven sales, so the motherboard manufacturers don't mind putting more time into designing them. You won't see boards as nice as Intel's for a bit.

[kalnick]

The biggest issue with M-atx and x370 is the number of PCIe lanes available with X370 vs B350. M-atx boards are physically too small for board manufacturers to take advantage of those extra lanes. Intel offers less PCIe lans on it z series chipsets so M-Atx works good with those.

 

Someone who is buying x370 and say a R7 cpu is going to want to have there usage knee capped by lack of PCIe lanes so I don't see board makers botherign with them until there is a demand for them.

[SuperShires]

30 minutes ago, CUDA_Cores said:

And you want a high end motherboard because...?

Like I said, I want to do a custom loop in a micro ATX case and I don't want to cheap out on a motherboard.

14 minutes ago, kalnick said:

The biggest issue with M-atx and x370 is the number of PCIe lanes available with X370 vs B350. M-atx boards are physically too small for board manufacturers to take advantage of those extra lanes. Intel offers less PCIe lans on it z series chipsets so M-Atx works good with those.

 

Someone who is buying x370 and say a R7 cpu is going to want to have there usage knee capped by lack of PCIe lanes so I don't see board makers botherign with them until there is a demand for them.

But you see high end ITX motherboards? I'm just wanting high end components and stuff like that and it too look nice like top end Asus motherboards do.

[SuperShires]

33 minutes ago, ABehery said:

I have been searching for one recently, and bought Asus TUF B350M-Plus as it is the best currently, as @dave_k informed me, they have similar mosfets as the Asus Strix B350, so as long as you're not doing crazy OC you'll be fine.

 

Will give you feedback if you want as soon as I put the system together.

If that mobo was colour neutral I'd probably consider it, but I've got time so I'm fine with waiting, I might even go with Intel if theres no decent motherboards kicking about by the time I pull the trigger and buy everything.

[SuperShires]

35 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

All the mATX board available are b350 chipsets.  

Could still have a top end b350 right? 

[just_dave]

2 minutes ago, SuperShires said:

Could still have a top end b350 right? 

You cant have top end on a garbage chipset

[just_dave]

Just now, CUDA_Cores said:

What's wrong with a B350 asrock board like this?

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157762

 

That motherboard is not a "cheap" motherboard, nor is it an expensive one. You don't need an expensive motherboard even for a watercooled rig like yours. Ever since I have been building PCs, I always buy mid-range motherboards. They have the features i'm actually going to use, and nothing I don't need. They have good enough components to last but the super-cheap stuff you find on low-end boards. 

Its voltage control and lowside mosfets succ

[kalnick]

2 minutes ago, SuperShires said:

Like I said, I want to do a custom loop in a micro ATX case and I don't want to cheap out on a motherboard.

But you see high end ITX motherboards? I'm just wanting high end components and stuff like that and it too look nice like top end Asus motherboards do.

Itx is more popular them m-atx though and there are still only 2 itx x370 boards out there.

I don't see many other boards maker doing x370 Itx boards either.

 

M-atx is the middle child that kind of get thought of last.

[kalnick]

Intel would be the platform you want to look at if you really want a high-end top quality M-atx board.

 

If you want a high-end, top quality x370 board you have to go ATX.

[SuperShires]

18 minutes ago, kalnick said:

Intel would be the platform you want to look at if you really want a high-end top quality M-atx board.

 

If you want a high-end, top quality x370 board you have to go ATX.

Yeah that's what I'm thinking, I'll see whats available at time of purchase

[just_dave]

33 minutes ago, CUDA_Cores said:

OK mister "only 27 million IRFZ44Ns is acceptable to an overclocking board" here is asus's version of that board, since you're probably an asus fanboy.

 

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132966

That one is garbage too bcoz it has no heatsink.

I am looking on boards purely from VRM perspecitve.

If we were talking about Z370, i would tell you that MSI Z370 Godlike has the best VRM and that Strix Z370-F/E are rather mediocre.

It changes from board to board and from manafacturer to manafacturer.

On AM4, there are only 8-10 boards that would be considered good.

[SupaKomputa]

i have biostar x370gt3, the only x370 matx board i think.

pretty decent board, but software is garbage, but if you're looking for the top chipset with budget price, this maybe the one, or the only one if you count matx.

[just_dave]

1 minute ago, SupaKomputa said:

i have biostar x370gt3, the only x370 matx board i think.

pretty decent board, but software is garbage, but if you're looking for the top chipset with budget price, this maybe the one, or the only one if you count matx.

the VRM is garbage, even bigger than MSI.

between MSI and Gigabyte

 

[DarkMatterX1]

2 hours ago, dave_k said:

the VRM is garbage, even bigger than MSI.

between MSI and Gigabyte

 

According to whom? In what way was the vrm tested, and its properties characterized and quantified? Is it within AMD's rated specs for power delivery? Does it suffer from voltage over/undershoot? Is it a matter of poor power factor correction? What in your opinion makes it garbage? 

[just_dave]

8 minutes ago, DarkMatterX1 said:

According to whom? In what way was the vrm tested, and its properties characterized and quantified? Is it within AMD's rated specs for power delivery? Does it suffer from voltage over/undershoot? Is it a matter of poor power factor correction? What in your opinion makes it garbage? 

Thermal testing, used mosfets (Good ol' explosive Nikos)

There are some graphs on OCN, i have seen it go over 100°C on the heatsink which is more than unacceptable.

Its even higher than Tomahawk.

Gigabyte 4+3 is just nuts and should never be considered, because it severely overheats even with R5 1600 3.9 - 4.1GHz

[SupaKomputa]

if you're concerning with the mosfet temp, just put some cheap ic heatsink over it. done.

 

do you have any recommendations for the price point? all of those boards have 4+3 anyway.

just curious are there any micro-atx boards that have more than that?

[just_dave]

13 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

if you're concerning with the mosfet temp, just put some cheap ic heatsink over it. done.

 

do you have any recommendations for the price point? all of those boards have 4+3 anyway.

just curious are there any micro-atx boards that have more than that?

I was talking about heatsink temperature that attacks 95°C line.

Ofc the mosfets are 110°C+.

4+3 is only on shittybyte.

From mATX, the best is Asus TUF B350M Plus but it is still 4 phase with somewhat puny heatsink (but 125°C caps). It can handle R7 on stock or very modest OC.

Mobos with no heatsinks should be avoided completely

[SupaKomputa]

really man, if you're concern is the heatsink, buy some cheap after market like these one, it will only cost you no more than 2 bucks, if you have some old pentium heatsink, saw and stick it with double tape and you'll be fine. don't fall for marketing gimmick that give you placebo effect, until its proven.

Today's system are less power demanding and lower temp compared to 10 years ago.

my ryzen never reach 50c full load and i live in tropical zone 33c all day long.

if you don't overclock any motherboard will do, as long as it has decent warranty (3 years minimum).

you know what the longest running (and still running today) motherboard i have? it's called Amptron, beats all Asus, DFI or Gigabyte that piles up in my garage.

 

[DarkMatterX1]

20 hours ago, dave_k said:

Thermal testing, used mosfets (Good ol' explosive Nikos)

There are some graphs on OCN, i have seen it go over 100°C on the heatsink which is more than unacceptable.

Its even higher than Tomahawk.

Gigabyte 4+3 is just nuts and should never be considered, because it severely overheats even with R5 1600 3.9 - 4.1GHz

You didn't answer a single one of my questions. I'm not trying to 'call you out", or whatever the kids are calling it these days, I'm curious. I see you in almost every motherboard thread proclaiming this board or that vrm to be trash or garbage or whatever. Based on what tests, characterized by what metrics, and carried out by whom? "Saying "thermal testing" and then tossing out a random one-off sino-branded semiconductor manufacturer isn't data. In another thread I asked you how you characterized the ripple voltage that you were talking about with another board, whether or not you had put the output onto a scope so you could view the waveform. You said you determined it based on whether your motherboard would run or not. I'm sorry, but that just isn't how vripple is characterized or quantified. What testing have you done, or if not you, whose testing are you basing these opinions off of? 

[just_dave]

1 hour ago, DarkMatterX1 said:

In another thread I asked you how you characterized the ripple voltage that you were talking about with another board, whether or not you had put the output onto a scope so you could view the waveform. You said you determined it based on whether your motherboard would run or not. I'm sorry, but that just isn't how vripple is characterized or quantified. What testing have you done, or if not you, whose testing are you basing these opinions off of? 

The ripple on the ASRock boards using Intersil ISL95712 voltage controller is mostly huge voltage drop under load. I saw a significant improvement with 6 phases coming from 4, so 3 phases non digi is a disaster.

I already heard multiple people having problems with that.

Here on forums, @johndms did have that problem with excessive VDrop, he has good VRM knowledge, he will tell you all of the details. I am summing it up, because i am too lazy to write an essay.

1 hour ago, DarkMatterX1 said:

Saying "thermal testing" and then tossing out a random one-off sino-branded semiconductor manufacturer isn't data

Niko semiconductor parts were on the flamin' hot MSI AM3+ mobos, so Nikos are widely known for that. I suppose you know that.

Dig through the comments there, you will find the thermal data. OCN 1 OCN 2 (mosfet kuhler = VRM heatsink)

1 hour ago, DarkMatterX1 said:

I see you in almost every motherboard thread proclaiming this board or that vrm to be trash or garbage or whatever. Based on what tests, characterized by what metrics, and carried out by whom?

Based on the used mosfets. You can find the datasheets and calculate efficiency (power loss) and even the temperature of the mosfets at given load.

If you see 120 + ambient, it doesnt seem fine to me.

I can give you the formulas for calculating power loss and you can check it yourself whether i am right or not