Try not to be this kind of photographer/photography

[AkiraDaarkst]

Just ranting here, and hoping to raise awareness since I know there are some people who are aiming to become good photographers (either as amateurs or professionals).

 

https://petapixel.com/2017/10/13/greek-monastery-bans-foreign-weddings-due-one-raunchy-photo/

https://fstoppers.com/news/single-photograph-gets-all-foreign-weddings-banned-greek-island-199494

 

In this article, the blame lies with both parties.  The wedding couple who wanted to do this to get their 15 minutes of sensational fame and the photographer for agreeing to do this shot.  If you're photographing (or being photographed in front of the camera) wherever you are in the world, please remember to respect the local customs and cultures.  What you do can potentially ruin it for the rest of us.

 

Other examples of bad behavior, such as the tourists who take inappropriate photos in Sri Lanka or the Chinese tourists who were arrested in Germany for doing the Nazi salute

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-19325357

http://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/cambodia-angkor-nude-tourists/index.html

http://newsfirst.lk/english/2017/08/chinese-tourists-arrested-hitler-salute-germany/171258

 

Oh and just because you believe in liberalism and/or libertarianism doesn't necessarily make you right or better or more progressive than those who don't.  There are cultures and customs in the world that are conservative and just as equally good if not better.  In fact, quite often those people are more open minded and accepting than people who claim to be liberal.

[LinusTech]

Honestly I don’t really get it.. to compare a married couple performing a sex act to a Nazi salute (in Germany of all places) is ridiculous. 

 

Yeah its indecent, but given as far as I can tell no one was even around..

 

I feel like the outrage should be saved for stuff that’s more important than a blowjob.. a simulated one at that...

 

They were clearly goofing around. They and the photographer didn’t ruin anyone’s wedding plans. Overly-sensitive doofuses in Greece did. Hope they can figure it how to keep their economy going without all that tourism income. Talk about short-sighted. 

[AkiraDaarkst]

1 minute ago, LinusTech said:

Honestly I don’t really get it.. to compare a married couple performing a sex act to a Nazi salute (in Germany of all places) is ridiculous. 

 

Yeah its indecent, but given as far as I can tell no one was even around..

 

I feel like the outrage should be saved for stuff that’s more important than a blowjob.. a simulated one at that...

 

They were clearly goofing around. They and the photographer didn’t ruin anyone’s wedding plans. Overly-sensitive doofuses in Greece did. Hope they can figure it how to keep their economy going without all that tourism income. Talk about short-sighted. 

Their local cultures and custom, either respect it or don't go there.  It's their law of their land.  How would you like it if someone came to your country and broke the laws and disrespected your culture.

[LinusTech]

6 minutes ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

Their local cultures and custom, either respect it or don't go there.  It's their law of their land.  How would you like it if someone came to your country and broke the laws and disrespected your culture.

That’s a fair point too, and honestly I wouldn’t go there and do that. 

 

BUT it changes nothing about this being an irrational and self-destructive overreaction to something that doesn’t ACTUALLY matter compared to much more pressing concerns that we should all share. 

 

I guess in general I’ve grown tired of people finding ways to be offended rather than finding ways to get along. 

 

They weren’t pissing on the church. They were goofing around. The INTENT of the couple was OBVIOUSLY to take a silly photo during a once in a lifetime moment of their life. It OBVIOUSLY wasn’t to piss off an entire island of people. That’s what makes this different from a Nazi salute in Germany. 

 

And if we find ourself so deeply offended by other people who wish us no ill, maybe we should rethink our outlook...

[Stefan PandaBear]

Yeha this is just odd.

[AkiraDaarkst]

Just now, LinusTech said:

That’s a fair point too, and honestly I wouldn’t go there and do that. 

 

BUT it changes nothing about this being an irrational and self-destructive overreaction to something that doesn’t ACTUALLY matter compared to much more pressing concerns that we should all share. 

 

I gues in general I’ve grown tired of people finding ways to be offended rather than finding ways to get along. 

 

They weren’t pissing on he church. They were goofing around. The INTENT of the couple was OBVIOUSLY to take a silly photo during a once in a lifetime moment of their life. It OBVIOUSLY wasn’t to piss off an entire island of people. That’s what makes this different from a Nazi salute in Germany. 

 

And if we find ourself so deeply offended by other people who wish us no ill, maybe we should rethink our outlook...

Common sense dictates the couple and the tog shouldn't have done it in the first place.  Don't try to pass the blame to people who have decided what their values and traditions are.  And yes while there are bigger problems out there such as people dying from hunger, disease, war, etc. every day, most big issues begin with a combination of small ones.

[wONKEyeYEs]

Their home their rules.

Respect>self indulgence.

[LinusTech]

3 minutes ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

Common sense dictates the couple and the tog shouldn't have done it in the first place.  Don't try to pass the blame to people who have decided what their values and traditions are.  And yes while there are bigger problems out there such as people dying from hunger, disease, war, etc. every day, most big issues begin with a combination of small ones.

 

Again, I wouldnt have done it, but they didn’t light anything on fire, create any additional work for someone else (like vandalism), hurt anything (even plants or animals), etc

 

So it seems we agree this is a small issue.. I also agree many big issues are caused by small ones.

 

So my whole message here is maybe we should not sweat these small issues (a blow job on the beach) and turn them into a big one (devastating the local tourism industry on a tiny island where I can pretty much guarantee they’ve got jack-shit else going on).

[AkiraDaarkst]

By the way, to put it in another perspective:  The bride, the groom, and the photographer should be thankful they were only banned because this is Greece.  Try doing this in the Middle East and they would likely be sentenced to death.  Try doing it in countries like Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Thailand, Singapore and they would either be jailed, fined or deported and potentially declared Persona Non Grata.

[AkiraDaarkst]

1 minute ago, LinusTech said:

 

Again, I wouldnt have done it, but they didn’t light anything on fire, create any additional work for someone else (like vandalism), hurt anything (even plants or animals), etc

 

So it seems we agree this is a small issue.. I also agree many big issues are caused by small ones.

 

So my whole message here is maybe we should not sweat these small issues (a blow job on the beach) and turn them into a big one (devastating the local tourism industry on a tiny island where I can pretty much guarantee they’ve got jack-shit else going on).

Here's what the article missed: the location wasn't on a beach.  It was done on the grounds of a monastery.  A religious site.

 

Link to a better article which I should've used instead of the one on FStoppers.  I'll put both links up in my original post.

https://petapixel.com/2017/10/13/greek-monastery-bans-foreign-weddings-due-one-raunchy-photo/

[LinusTech]

1 minute ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

By the way, to put it in another perspective:  The bride, the groom, and the photographer should be thankful they were only banned because this is Greece.  Try doing this in the Middle East and they would likely be sentenced to death.  Try doing it in countries like Sri Lanka, Myanmar, Thailand, Singapore and they would either be jailed, fined or deported and potentially declared Persona Non Grata.

Not disagreeing it was irresponsible. 

 

And the authorities in those countries could probably stand to chillax a little, too. 

 

Which is my point. 

[LinusTech]

1 minute ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

Here's what the article missed: the location wasn't on a beach.  It was done on the grounds of a monastery.  A religious site.

 

Link to a better article which I should've used instead of the one on FStoppers.  I'll put both links up in my original post.

https://petapixel.com/2017/10/13/greek-monastery-bans-foreign-weddings-due-one-raunchy-photo/

Makes their act more blatantly disrespectful. Thanks for the clarification. 

 

But it doesn’t make the reaction any less overkill and self-immolating. 

 

I hope the Deity of that monastery brings them some food or something to reward them for defending it. 

 

Bottom line, with the new information I disagree with everyone involved. It’s not a lot of work to respect others people’s sacred building or rocks or whatever - especially if they are clearly labeled. 

 

But it’s also not a big deal to tell off the couple, ban the photographer from the island, and put up a sign. 

[AkiraDaarkst]

9 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

And the authorities in those countries could probably stand to chillax a little, too.

Unfortunately I can't and won't agree with this.  It's not their fault.

 

For example, there are so many non-Buddhists who buy statuettes of Buddha and use them for decoration in their homes, I think there should also be Christian, Islamic, Jewish, etc. stuff that people can use as decorations in their homes too.  I'm Atheist and while my family is Buddhist, I would like to have as a doormat or bathroom mat with the face of an Abrahamic religious figure.  Tit for tat.

 

Essentially, if you come to my country, respect our customs, cultures and laws no matter how strict they may seem.

[LinusTech]

1 minute ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

Unfortunately I can't and won't agree with this.  It's not their fault.

 

For example, there are so many non-Buddhists who buy statuettes of Buddha and use them for decoration in their homes, I think there should also be Christian, Islamic, Jewish, etc. stuff that people can use as decorations in their homes too.  I'm Atheist and while my family is Buddhist, I would like to have as doormat or bathroom mat with the face of an Abrahamic religious figure.  Tit for tat.

I don’t really get your point. 

 

Who is saying you can’t put a Star of David, Cross, or Mohammed in your home?

 

I don’t care. It’s your home. 

[.spider.]

I think the world has bigger problems and discussing gossip isn't just worth it.

[AkiraDaarkst]

10 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

I don’t really get your point. 

That's not surprising since you clearly failed to understand why I started this topic.  If you want to become a good photographer, and be considered a good photographer among the community, one of the fundamental things to have is a clear understanding and respect of the customs and cultures you'll be exposed to in places you go to do your photography.  Whether as an amateur or professional.  And don't be surprised if you do something like this and people in the community start ostracizing you.

[LinusTech]

3 minutes ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

That's not surprising since you clearly failed to understand why I started this topic.  If you want to become a good photographer, and be considered a good photographer among the community, one of the fundamental things to have is a clear understanding and respect of the customs and cultures you'll be exposed to in places you go to do your photography.  Whether as an amateur or professional.  And don't be surprised if you do something like this and people in the community start ostracizing you.

Yeah I definitely don't understand that..

If you want to be a good photographer and be considered a good photographer by other photographers, you should take good photographs.. <-- objectively true

 

If you want to be a well-respected, well-liked PERSON, then all that other stuff you said.

 

If the photography community wants to be taken more seriously than the wine community, they should be wary of tangling up WHO made it with the JUDGING of the art. Otherwise you're just Ice Dancing.

[AkiraDaarkst]

5 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

Yeah I definitely don't understand that..

If you want to be a good photographer and be considered a good photographer by other photographers, you should take good photographs.. <-- objectively true

 

If you want to be a well-respected, well-liked PERSON, then all that other stuff you said.

 

If the photography community wants to be taken more seriously than the wine community, they should be wary of tangling up WHO made it with the JUDGING of the art. Otherwise you're just Ice Dancing.

I honestly don’t know if you’re being deliberately dense or just ignorant, but there’s more to being a photographer than just being able to take good photographs.

[LinusTech]

44 minutes ago, AkiraDaarkst said:

I honestly don’t know if you’re being deliberately dense or just ignorant, but there’s more to being a photographer than just being able to take good photographs.

I don’t think we disagree as much as you think we do. 

[chilicheeseburger]

I would agree the picture is very disrespectful but what's the point in banning foreign weddings all together because of a single incident? I'd get it if this happened regularly but as far as I understand that's not the case.

 

I also don't think this has a lot to do with being a photographer, I think it's more about common sense and respect. Sadly some people like to provoke just for the hell of it, not just by taking photos.

[AkiraDaarkst]

5 hours ago, chilicheeseburger said:

I would agree the picture is very disrespectful but what's the point in banning foreign weddings all together because of a single incident? I'd get it if this happened regularly but as far as I understand that's not the case.

 

I also don't think this has a lot to do with being a photographer, I think it's more about common sense and respect. Sadly some people like to provoke just for the hell of it, not just by taking photos.

While I agree that it’s about having common sense and respect the reason I focus on photographers is because I’m a photographer and this kind of thing was one of the first things I was advised about by senior togs who guided me and also because I see this kind of disrespect quite a lot.  If you’re a photographer that stays in your country of residence and does not travel often you might not find it relevant but if you’re the type that loves to travel and goes to different places to do photography then I think you should be aware of this.

[AkiraDaarkst]

9 hours ago, LinusTech said:

I don’t think we disagree as much as you think we do. 

Perhaps, I’m just tired of seeing people (not just togs) showing disrespect for others’ cultures, customs, rules and regulations.

[thekillergazebo]

I would say these photos arnt that bad. They seem goofy and in the name of good spirt and art. Yes they should of considered the local laws, but I think a simple fine would do.

 

i think an even larger issue that’s ive seen in the photograph community is photographers trying to sleep with models. That’s a more important issue then two consenting adults blowing each other on a beach in another county. I’ve worked with models who have told me some super creepy stories about their experiences with some amateurs and well known photographers. 

 

Photographers need to understand you do not touch the model at anytime unless you have built up a relationship with them and they feel comfortable with it. Also do not try and sleep with the models, and then try and guilt trip them into it. I hear that one a lot of some models down here. Anytime a photographer does that it hurts what the rest of us are trying to do.

[cc143]

Firstly this sort of photo has been done countless, times, I've seen it before, and in this case it is in my opinion very poorly executed. 

 

Now, it is the monastery and the church, not local authorities who have had to place a ban on foreign couples getting married in their church, and in my opinion they are well within their rights to decline service to anyone as they see fit. 

 

Religion in Greece (I'm Greek btw) is not as clear cut, you have 2 small minorities, one of the religious, which is more common in rural areas or smaller communities, that are a bit more prude than they could be, and the vocal atheist community who despise the church, religion and all it stands for, while this is true globally, it is more so in Greece. Therefore, the former become even more defensive to such acts, which causes more aggression by the latter. Then you have the rest of the people in the middle who either don't care at all or don't care enough, they might themselves be atheist or mildly religious etc. 

 

It is also true, that such a stunt in other religious institutions would be met with far more severe repercussions. 

 

After that, its a matter of personal repsonsibility, the couple are morons for wanting to do this (imo) and the photographer more of a moron for doing it(and not that well either). If they wanted to do this in their own home or somewhere else, then fine. 

 

Also, apart from the obvious disrespect to the religious institution and local culture, there are indecent exposure laws, they are there for a reason and they should be respected, Just exercise a smidgen of common sense people. 

 

Final thing, there are laws I consider stupid everywhere, either written or implied (common sense). They are there for a reason, I go over the limit, because I think its ridiculously low, but if I'm caught I still pay the fine. In the middle east, even western women have to cover their heads when they are outside, I consider this stupid and backwards, yes,  but unless the local culture or law changes, you have to do it. And just food for thought, if a woman can get very severly punished for not covering up in the middle east, imagine the reaction to such a stunt, and then understand that there is a spectrum of overreaction, and this isn't even out there as far as it goes. 

[Juppaware]

I completly Disagree with Akira. This stuff is just dumb.

They did NOT break any laws.

What they did do was be stupid.

Is this cause for mutilating an entire local economy? no. This is an over-reaction that will cause far more harm than good.

I'm presonally all about freedom of expression. If nothing they did was against the law and all they did was hurt your itty bitty feelings then that's all good by me. You can come to my home country, or any other country realy, and preach whatever you want and do whatever you want within the confines of the local law. If you're disrespectful in the process that's too bad, that just makes you a bit of an asshole nothing less and nothing more. If Someone from Greece was to come to America for example and start disrespecting locals. I think we can all agree banning Greek locals from tourism would be an over-reaction.

 

Everyone should have the ability to be disrespectful, crude or brash, if they are within the confines of the law. Anything less is limiting freespeach and personal power. If you want Photography industry to be taken more seriously stop worring about such small tiny issues.