1070ti Rumored to be a LOCKED gpu

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, dexT said:

Good post and I understand, but it would be better for the consumer(what the argument is) to not "delay gratification" and bust out the better, faster cards for the same price. There are repercussions like you state, oc.

 

 

So the question your really asking is why wouldn't he consumer be happy if they released Volta now fully working, faster and the same price.  The answer is the consumer would be happy, but for now only.  As any practice that reduces revenue effectively reduces R+D expenditure,  the end result is a poor performing product.  So yes, you might get this one early and be happy, but at the expense that the next one will not be as good, and the one after that and the one after that.  Just ask AMD how hard it is to produce a leading GPU without any R+D cash.

[dexT]

51 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

So the question your really asking is why wouldn't he consumer be happy if they released Volta now fully working, faster and the same price.  The answer is the consumer would be happy, but for now only.  As any practice that reduces revenue effectively reduces R+D expenditure,  the end result is a poor performing product.  So yes, you might get this one early and be happy, but at the expense that the next one will not be as good, and the one after that and the one after that.  Just ask AMD how hard it is to produce a leading GPU without any R+D cash.

It's not exactly early though is it? Unless this card is out by January it will be the biggest gap since 280 to 480.

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, dexT said:

It's not exactly early though is it? Unless this card is out by January it will be the biggest gap since 280 to 480.

 

 Let's assume it is already for mass release as a gaming GPU.  It would be on time from a consumer perspective, but early from nvidia's financial perspective (they already have the top cards and they are still selling).

 

 

[dexT]

19 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

 Let's assume it is already for mass release as a gaming GPU.  It would be on time from a consumer perspective, but early from nvidia's financial perspective (they already have the top cards and they are still selling).

 

 

And that brings us back to the sandbagging.

 

780 TI was the fastest GPU when the 980 came out. The performance gap is much smaller between Vega and Pascal than Vishera and Kaby Lake was on the CPU side and I'm sure you know about the hate Intel has been getting lately for the same thing.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, dexT said:

And that brings us back to the sandbagging.

 

780 TI was the fastest GPU when the 980 came out. The performance gap is much smaller between Vega and Pascal than Vishera and Kaby Lake was on the CPU side and I'm sure you know about the hate Intel has been getting lately for the same thing.

Sure it's annoying if you want to upgrade now and you know something is just around the corner but not out yet because old stock is still valuable. But at the end of the day it doesn't really cost you more for the tech (just time waiting as others who are less concerned with the latest and greatest will still by the older stock). 

 

There was enough distance between Haswell, skylake, Kabylake and all of AMD's offerings that intel could have held back the great flood with sandbagging had they wanted to. However in hindsight and looking at how unprepared they were to release CL early plus the balls up with the X series, we know that in the end all their sandbagging wasn't so they had a stock pile of  developed technology waiting to go, it was just the usual delayed release stuff to maximise sales.

 

Another thing to remember is, that sandbagging in this regard also gives struggling competitors some breathing space to catch up.  Imagine if Nvidia and Intel had of released all their tech at once (monopolies and market legalities aside), AMD might well have gone out the back door completely. 

[dexT]

10 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Sure it's annoying if you want to upgrade now and you know something is just around the corner but not out yet because old stock is still valuable. But at the end of the day it doesn't really cost you more for the tech (just time waiting as others who are less concerned with the latest and greatest will still by the older stock). 

 

There was enough distance between Haswell, skylake, Kabylake and all of AMD's offerings that intel could have held back the great flood with sandbagging had they wanted to. However in hindsight and looking at how unprepared they were to release CL early plus the balls up with the X series, we know that in the end all their sandbagging wasn't so they had a stock pile of  developed technology waiting to go, it was just the usual delayed release stuff to maximise sales.

 

Another thing to remember is, that sandbagging in this regard also gives struggling competitors some breathing space to catch up.  Imagine if Nvidia and Intel had of released all their tech at once (monopolies and market legalities aside), AMD might well have gone out the back door completely. 

"I'm a tech enthusiast not a market analyst" - Leonard H. "Bones" McCoy, S.D. 2819

[mr moose]

Just now, dexT said:

"I'm a tech enthusiast not a market analyst" - Leonard H. "Bones" McCoy, S.D. 2268

 

"You're hiding... hiding behind rules and regulations." bones.  some other movie..

[laminutederire]

8 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

Which all amounts to balancing product availability to maximise revenue.  As I said before, but some people just don't reckoning that here is a whole other side to the industry (any industry) beyond their gimme gimme gimme attitudes. 

Well  just the fact that most people assume that nvidia will give them X percent more perf next gen just because they did previously just tells you how much they don't even understand the tech industry on the tech side. They think of it like X amount of work and Y dollars invested give you a Z amount of performance more in your final product (which is obviously false.) Because of that they think that the company has a product better from a given amount just because time has passed and they feel entitled to give it because of the instant gratification myth of our society. But the business side is just the end of the equation, and the company sometimes doesn't have the choice to delay release because the technology isn't there to back up a new product. Unless they're Intel and re release 3 times almost the exact same thing playing on their margins.

[thorhammerz]

5 hours ago, laminutederire said:

Well  just the fact that most people assume that nvidia will give them X percent more perf next gen just because they did previously just tells you how much they don't even understand the tech industry on the tech side.

And for a large number of people, gross ignorance on how and why businesses work as well .

[dexT]

@thorhammerz @laminutederire @mr moose @Dylanc1500

 

Yep all of you are right, I know nothing about the tech industry or business. I have however binned more CPUs than 99% of population will ever lay a finger on irl and I'm just getting started.

 

I'm ranked 90 out of 80923 in the USA, 684 out of 118402 in the world for competitive benchmarking http://hwbot.org/user/knock (scroll down a bit and take in the speeds I run compared to stock lol)

 

I don't care how the industry works.

[thorhammerz]

3 hours ago, dexT said:

I don't care how the industry works.

And that's OK.

 

A shame reality won't change from one sticking their head into the sand .

3 hours ago, dexT said:

I'm ranked 90 out of 80923 in the USA, 684 out of 118402 in the world for competitive benchmarking http://hwbot.org/user/knock (scroll down a bit and take in the speeds I run compared to stock lol)

Yes, yes, we are all very proud of you on this rather off-topic & meaningless boast (of what, exactly?) you've resorted to using from the lack of an argument .

[Dylanc1500]

1 hour ago, dexT said:

@thorhammerz @laminutederire @mr moose @Dylanc1500

 

Yep all of you are right, I know nothing about the tech industry or business. I have however binned more CPUs than 99% of population will ever lay a finger on irl and I'm just getting started.

 

I'm ranked 90 out of 80923 in the USA, 684 out of 118402 in the world for competitive benchmarking http://hwbot.org/user/knock (scroll down a bit and take in the speeds I run compared to stock lol)

 

I don't care how the industry works.

I would like to apologize if offended you some how, as that was far from my intention. I was with all honesty trying give you another angle to look from outside of the consumer perspective, as we all typically get caught up with the "what's best for me" mentality at times. (I catch myself doing it all the time lol) I have lucked out to be on the other side of the coin and get to see what goes on behind the scenes. Unfortunately most of us that are on that side can't speak about much due to confidentiality.

 

Again though I apologize if I came off rather rash.

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, Dylanc1500 said:

I would like to apologize if offended you some how, as that was far from my intention. I was with all honesty trying give you another angle to look from outside of the consumer perspective, as we all typically get caught up with the "what's best for me" mentality at times. (I catch myself doing it all the time lol) I have lucked out to be on the other side of the coin and get to see what goes on behind the scenes. Unfortunately most of us that are on that side can't speak about much due to confidentiality.

 

Again though I apologize if I came off rather rash.

@dexT

I also apologise, my intention was never to offend, but simply to have a discussion and expand understanding of not just the tech industry but all consumer based industries.

 

It's good to learn more all the time, especially about how consumer habits shape company policies and what can and can't do about it. 

[dexT]

2 hours ago, Dylanc1500 said:

I would like to apologize if offended you some how, as that was far from my intention. I was with all honesty trying give you another angle to look from outside of the consumer perspective, as we all typically get caught up with the "what's best for me" mentality at times. (I catch myself doing it all the time lol) I have lucked out to be on the other side of the coin and get to see what goes on behind the scenes. Unfortunately most of us that are on that side can't speak about much due to confidentiality.

 

Again though I apologize if I came off rather rash.

 

58 minutes ago, mr moose said:

@dexT

I also apologise, my intention was never to offend, but simply to have a discussion and expand understanding of not just the tech industry but all consumer based industries.

 

It's good to learn more all the time, especially about how consumer habits shape company policies and what can and can't do about it. 

No need to apologize. I just want faster tech on the market for the same price as the current offerings. All of this is very funny.

[laminutederire]

6 hours ago, dexT said:

@thorhammerz @laminutederire @mr moose @Dylanc1500

 

Yep all of you are right, I know nothing about the tech industry or business. I have however binned more CPUs than 99% of population will ever lay a finger on irl and I'm just getting started.

 

I'm ranked 90 out of 80923 in the USA, 684 out of 118402 in the world for competitive benchmarking http://hwbot.org/user/knock (scroll down a bit and take in the speeds I run compared to stock lol)

 

I don't care how the industry works.

Since other people apologized, I won't because first of all I was talking to Mr moose, and secondly because bragging is something I do not indulge. We all have something to brag about, but humility has always been good for mankind.

 

You may not care how it is, and most people like myself would want products to arrive faster, but most of the time, the companies just don't have the technology to really do much better than they currently do anyway. The pricing is often more an issue with consumers than it is with them, as people pay premium when they shouldn't etc, placing the price equilibrium way above where it should. All of this to say that if you want better products for cheaper faster than it already is, well by all means make your own products or work for the existing companies to make it happen, just like the rest of us.

[dexT]

On 10/16/2017 at 6:03 PM, laminutederire said:

Since other people apologized, I won't because first of all I was talking to Mr moose, and secondly because bragging is something I do not indulge. We all have something to brag about, but humility has always been good for mankind.

 

You may not care how it is, and most people like myself would want products to arrive faster, but most of the time, the companies just don't have the technology to really do much better than they currently do anyway. The pricing is often more an issue with consumers than it is with them, as people pay premium when they shouldn't etc, placing the price equilibrium way above where it should. All of this to say that if you want better products for cheaper faster than it already is, well by all means make your own products or work for the existing companies to make it happen, just like the rest of us.

I was just proving I'm not just some uninitiated asshole gamer that's under the age of 20 or 30 and spazzing because I need more FPS in a video game.

 

The issue is a new flagship card and generation is ready and due to hit market but progress is being stifled. But all of you should keep whiteknighting stagnation and greed in the tech world. Tech versions of the infamous SJW.

[laminutederire]

37 minutes ago, dexT said:

I was just proving I'm not just some uninitiated asshole gamer that's under the age of 20 or 30 and spazzing because I need more FPS in a video game.

 

The issue is a new flagship card and generation is ready and due to hit market but progress is being stifled. But all of you should keep whiteknighting stagnation and greed in the tech world. Tech versions of the infamous SJW.

Then do your own chip which performs better... you know sometimes it gets hard to refine really polished products. When Nvidia CEO says Pascal is unbeatable it's mostly because Volta doesn't beat it. They could release it yes, but it's very likely they would release products less than 5 percent faster anyway, so that would be real stagnation. I prefer a company not releasing anything than a company going full Intel and releasing the same thing over and over again with minor tweaks which don't change that much anyway.

Have you even worked in R&D in those companies?

[dexT]

10 hours ago, laminutederire said:

Then do your own chip which performs better...

This is getting ridiculous, I'm losing faith in this community.

 

10 hours ago, laminutederire said:

you know sometimes it gets hard to refine really polished products. When Nvidia CEO says Pascal is unbeatable it's mostly because Volta doesn't beat it. They could release it yes, but it's very likely they would release products less than 5 percent faster anyway, so that would be real stagnation.

So then sitting on it until spring ->fall makes more sense? Wait two years and release a GPU with less than 5% improvement?

 

10 hours ago, laminutederire said:

Have you even worked in R&D in those companies?

Ok this just stepped up from ridiculous to retarded. AF.

[laminutederire]

6 hours ago, dexT said:

This is getting ridiculous, I'm losing faith in this community.

 

So then sitting on it until spring ->fall makes more sense? Wait two years and release a GPU with less than 5% improvement?

 

Ok this just stepped up from ridiculous to retarded. AF.

So working on making it better or skipping this generation does make sense yes. If you know that your product is useless, work on something that isn't...

You're the one being ridiculous here. You conjecture stuff with apparently absolutely no idea about how r&d works. You assume they're sitting on new tech to make a profit just because you are used to them releasing X% improvement every Y months? Understand that when you're on a mature technology, with Moore's law on current transistors tech nearing its end, the obvious solutions don't work anymore, and finding new technologies is becoming increasingly harder. Especially for games which are designed to be optimized for older generations, it makes it increasingly harder to deviate too much from that older tech because the behavior might not be optimal and blow back in your face even with a better product.

So go live in your world of paranoia where companies refuse to give you the products you want if it pleases you, but if you want to live in the real world, you'll have to learn to be polite, and to think of every aspect of the problem instead of obsessing on one idea based on a false premise and insulting everyone who tries to get you out of this bubble you're building for yourself.

Oh and by the way, no one cares that you can overclock CPUs well, it doesn't give you any credibility in the discussion about how products should be released. It just says what type of consumer you are, not what type of person you are.

[dexT]

8 hours ago, laminutederire said:

So working on making it better or skipping this generation does make sense yes. If you know that your product is useless, work on something that isn't...

You're the one being ridiculous here. You conjecture stuff with apparently absolutely no idea about how r&d works. You assume they're sitting on new tech to make a profit just because you are used to them releasing X% improvement every Y months? Understand that when you're on a mature technology, with Moore's law on current transistors tech nearing its end, the obvious solutions don't work anymore, and finding new technologies is becoming increasingly harder. Especially for games which are designed to be optimized for older generations, it makes it increasingly harder to deviate too much from that older tech because the behavior might not be optimal and blow back in your face even with a better product.

So go live in your world of paranoia where companies refuse to give you the products you want if it pleases you, but if you want to live in the real world, you'll have to learn to be polite, and to think of every aspect of the problem instead of obsessing on one idea based on a false premise and insulting everyone who tries to get you out of this bubble you're building for yourself.

Oh and by the way, no one cares that you can overclock CPUs well, it doesn't give you any credibility in the discussion about how products should be released. It just says what type of consumer you are, not what type of person you are.

So because I don't do R&D for a silicon giant I'm not allowed to think or say something? Which one do you do R&D for? As long as it isn't VIA or Matrox I'd love to hear how it works based on your expertise and title.

 

I never called you ridiculous or retarded lol. I said this argument is. The video clip I posted was a joke at someone with a thick skin, chill. It's OK to want new tech on the market even if one has no plans to buy it... I'm an enthusiast, not even much of video gamer.. I'd rather play Magic the Gathering or Pen & Paper Shadowrun hahaha.

 

Calm down.