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EVGA sending cherry pick B3 psu to reviewers?

NumLock21

Kind of old news and some of you might have know about this already, but I'll still post it anyway. A overclock.net member going by the name of Shilka has discovered EVGA sending cherry picked SuperNova B3 psu to jonnyguru as review units.This was further confirms by Tom's Hardware where the psus they got especially the 450w and 850w, both of them, the over power protection feature did not kick in, resulting in a fried psu. The power supply jonnyguru got directly from EVGA, was made by SuperFlower, while the units that Tom's Hardware bought themselves from a the retail market is made by RSY.

 

Conclusion from Tom's Hardware on both the EVGA SuperNova B3 450w and 850w

450w
 

Quote

 

Back in the day, PSUs with LLC resonant converters sold for at least twice as much. But it seems like EVGA and Super Flower managed to reduce manufacturing costs elsewhere. It's even probable that once EVGA clears the mainstream category, prices will start to go up. Remember when this happened with the G2 family? At first those models sold for very low prices. But as they became known for high performance, prices started going up.

In the end, it may not matter because the 450 B3 has other, more serious problems. It looks like Super Flower made a huge mistake in its design, which poses a major safety risk. We noticed that the over-power protection triggering point is set way too high. Even under normal operating temperatures, one of the primary FETs in our store-bought sample, along with some other components, blew up. Either SF should set its OPP point much lower or use components able to handle higher amperage. We were also disturbed by the fact that, after the primary side shorted out, the PSU's fuse didn't blow. Every time we applied power, we saw sparks. Obviously, that's a fire hazard.

Of course, we notified EVGA of our findings, even though the company wasn't able to send a review sample before or after our mishap with the store-bought solution, stating it didn't have any to send. This looks suspicious to us, since plenty of online stores have them in stock. Seasonic recently started providing review samples through online stores to show it has nothing to hide. And after our trouble with EVGA, this approach is starting to look a lot better for transparency.

If the 450 B3 hadn't blown in a spectacular way, it would be one of the best PSUs in this category. But we are seriously troubled by its issue and EVGA's lack of a response when we probed for possible causes. Although the 450 B3 is solid and sells for a great price, we recommend being extra careful with this model until we can better explain why ours died on the bench. Maybe some day EVGA will follow Seasonic and offer reviewers samples through a retail channel to ensure that plain users have the same access to good hardware as the tech press. We'd like to confirm the whole batch of 450 B3s isn't bad, after all.

Our sample died during OPP testing with 580W load, with the main fuse staying intact! This is a serious problem and till we get to the bottom of this we cannot recommend the 450 B3, although it has great performance for the standards of this category.

 

 

850w
 

Quote

 

The 850 B3 achieves good overall performance, despite the 3.3V rail's bad transient response (hopefully EVGA fixes that as soon as possible, since the rail failed all of our tests). But regardless of a strong showing in most of our benchmarks, this PSU appears to have a serious flaw: our retail sample finished its OPP test and wouldn't fire back up. Apparently, something broke on the secondary side. Although we're glad the 850 B3 didn't blow up like the 450W model, this is our second (so far) B3-series power supply to die on the bench. And given that the 850 B3 is the family's flagship, we are worried about the platform's reliability.

EVGA still hasn't answered our concerns about the 450 B3 (or offered a second sample), and now we have another one dead B3 PSU. We can only guess that the over-power protection's triggering point is set too high in this unit as well. Although the PSU shut down under high stress, the fact it won't turn back on suggests an on-board component failed before the protection feature kicked in.

These aren't press samples we're working with here since EVGA didn't send any to us. That means we can be confident we don't have a hand-selected PSU. Beyond the 450 and 850 B3, we also bought the other models in this family and plan to explore whether the issue of premature failure plagues them as well. We are highly committed in our work, and when a company chooses not to send out a product that could be popular with our audience, we go out and get it ourselves.

The 850 B3 could be a very good PSU. But the fact that it stopped working once we pushed to find the OPP feature's triggering point makes this model much less appealing. Despite a low efficiency rating, EVGA's 850 B3 packs some nice features including a semi-passive mode and Japanese capacitors on the main PCB. Its power-good signal is accurate, and the hold-up time we measured is long enough to easily meet the ATX spec's demands. Fully modular cabling is another compelling advantage, along with lots of available PCIe connectors.

EVGA did make one egregious mistake on the cable selection, though: it only arms the 850 B3 with one EPS connector. We typically expect every PSU with more than 750W of capacity to have two, and we're fond of the 650W units (such as Aerocool's Project 7 650W) with more than one EPS connector. 

Until we get to the bottom of failures across EVGA's B3 family (something that would almost require the company's cooperation), we do not recommend the 850 B3. While it's apparently less likely to treat you to a fireworks show (unlike the 450 B3), an 850W PSU selling for $100 that dies after OPP testing is not good. Super Flower's platform needs fine-tuning to improve its reliability (and safety). As of right now, it appears the 850 B3 wasn't tested extensively enough before it goes into mass production. After all, tuning takes time, increasing production costs, and that's not a good thing when it comes to budget-oriented PSUs.

Another B3 unit that died during our tests and this makes us very skeptical about the whole B3 line. This time we didn't have a spectacular failure but still a 100 bucks PSU should not break during the protection features evaluation.


 

 

 

This was EVGA's response
 

Quote

 

“EVGA stands behind its full line of products, and the 5-Year Warranty on each B3 power supply demonstrates the confidence EVGA has in the quality and safety of each product shipped. If anyone has questions or concerns, please contact EVGA Customer Service and we are more than happy to assist. In the rare instance that a replacement unit is necessary, EVGA will support with a free Advanced RMA on all EVGA SuperNOVA B3 Power Supplies.

In addition, the EVGA SuperNOVA B3 review samples, as well as the production, were all built at the exact same qualified facility.”

Thanks,
EVGA

 

 

article link

http://www.legitreviews.com/evga-supernova-b3-deceit-evga-send-reviewers-special-samples_198185

 

review units

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-450-b3-psu,5160.html

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-850-b3-psu,5186.html

 

overclock.net forum thread

http://www.overclock.net/t/1638984/why-you-should-not-buy-an-evga-supernova-b3#

 

psu platform database

http://www.orionpsudb.com/

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f*** EVGA for fooling meh with the stupid B3

 

one day, when i can get one at a scrapyard for $3, I will smash it with a hammer

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2 minutes ago, JDE said:

f*** EVGA for fooling meh with the stupid B3

 

one day, when i can get one at a scrapyard for $3, I will smash it with a hammer

They'll probably be mountains of them B3.

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So does EVGA source from both companies equally or do they only source the superflower models for specific reasons (I.E redundancy supplier)?

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Quote

In addition, the EVGA SuperNOVA B3 review samples, as well as the production, were all built at the exact same qualified facility.

That doesn't confirm/deny the fact that units could of been cherry picked. Typical BS responses.

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38 minutes ago, TrigrH said:

That doesn't confirm/deny the fact that units could of been cherry picked. Typical BS responses.

They gave an answer by avoiding the subject in the question. Smart move.

 

I've got a P2 1000W for ages now, and I've always been happy with it, however this troubles me. Their lack of transparency is pretty evident.

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2 minutes ago, ErrantNyles said:

They gave an answer by avoiding the subject in the question. Smart move.

 

I've got a P2 1000W for ages now, and I've always been happy with it, however this troubles me. Their lack of transparency is pretty evident.

when in doubt go with safe(sea)sonic :P

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Being built in the same facility doesn't mean anything. Parts and boards can still be sourced from multiple different companies and assembled in the same building. It does nothing to address quality being completely different between review and retail units. EVGA's statement reads more like a confession than anything. If it was false they would be loudly denying it instead of trying to skirt around the issue and hoping the massive fanboy boner people have for them makes the problem go away.

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My PSU is dope and will likely last another 2 builds. That said, this makes me wish I had a Seasonic unit just a little for the more consistent experience.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Cookybiscuit said:

What kind of dumb shit manufacturer doesn't provide cherry picked samples?

This is beyond cherry picking. Its different OEMs and missing features. That isn't cherry picking, its outright lying and misleading customers. Cherry picking is to be expected, giving reviewers a completely different product is something else entirely.

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i hate how PSUs have gone up so much in price compared to when i got my G2 650W, that unit has gone up almost €50! You almost HAVE to shell out €100 for a good unit now compared to the €60 i paid for mine, at least here in Sweden. sure can you get stuff that will work just fine for under that at 500W? yes, but unless you do extensive reserach on if they will explode once you plug them in or not you cant. Its getting a bit hard to recomend just slapping a G2 or G3 in a rig when its costing you as much as a budget CPU at €100 or more

I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play no games atm & watch anime at 1080p(finally) watch YT and write essays...  nothing, it just sits there collecting dust...

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5 hours ago, VegetableStu said:

Not sure if the guy at jonnyguru would retest with a retail-sourced B3. thread related:

http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14843

Their first thread link posted in the oc.net thread got closed.

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18 hours ago, Derangel said:

This is beyond cherry picking. Its different OEMs and missing features. That isn't cherry picking, its outright lying and misleading customers. Cherry picking is to be expected, giving reviewers a completely different product is something else entirely.

My question still remains, does EVGA source from both OEMs equally?  Is it just a stamping at the factory?  Not having features advertised is a serious PR issue which they would have to be moronic to think they'd get away with.  

 

I guess time will tell if this was just a failure of judgment or an intentional attempt to deceive the consumer.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Tear down video on a dead EVGA SuperNova 450w B3 PSU. Also shows the reason why some psu causes coil whine. Mute it cause it's playing some stupid music, instead of doing a commentary about the psu.

 

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I expected more from you, EVGA... But I'll still be buying the 1180 FTW when it comes out. 

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I don't trust reviews from stuff sent by the manufacturer, I don't care who it is, if they didn't buy it the review is mostly useless. Plus there is the whole "paid review" thing, they where given the PSU which can be considered a payment and ergo it's a paid review. 

Yours faithfully

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22 hours ago, TrigrH said:

when in doubt go with safe(sea)sonic :P

M12II isn't good :P

 

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1 hour ago, Lord Nicoll said:

I don't trust reviews from stuff sent by the manufacturer, I don't care who it is, if they didn't buy it the review is mostly useless. Plus there is the whole "paid review" thing, they where given the PSU which can be considered a payment and ergo it's a paid review. 

No, no it isn't. That is an incredibly naive and narrow view of things. If that were the case then no reviewer would ever give products a bad rating. Believe it or not but a lot of companies actually like honest reviewers, especially when it comes to hardware. Some will get understandably pissy if a reviewer continues to rag on them over and over (for example: EVGA despises [H]ardOCP) but for the most part they like it when a reviewer provides an honest take on a product. Even if that take is negative, as long as the review is far and factually correct. Sites like Johnnyguru have ripped into some PSUs that they were given by manufacturers. The reaction from a lot of those companies was to improve their product and keep sending review units out. Yes, review units are generally cherry picked. They would want to make sure that the product is performing up to the highest standards and actually functioning when it leaves the factory. That does not make the review worthless, it just makes it ideal circumstances. At least sometimes. Things like CPUs, GPUs, etc are rarely that heavily cherry picked outside of making sure they simply work out of the box but they don't go out of their way to make sure reviewers get golden chips.

 

It is very easy to tell when a reviewer is influenced by the company and only offering a review in order to get more free products. 3DGameman was notorious for this in the past. He would almost never give a product a bad rating and often times was guilty of overlooking glaring problems with a product in his videos. A lot of times his videos were little better than PR puff pieces, going over specs and nothing more. That is an example of someone falling into the problem you believe all reviewers have.

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This is a conspiracy theory if I've ever seen one. You have a company that outsources to other factories; we don't know who made JonnyGuru's sample and we don't know who made the unit that Aris bought. The article also fails to note that the testing methodologies are completely different. One overloads the unit to test the OPP, the other only goes as far to test the unit to its rated capacity.

 

Don't believe me? Here it is from @jonnyGURU's own mouth:

 

Quote

We don't know who built Jeremy's (jonnyguru.com) sample. We don't know who made Aris's. Assumptions were made because Super Flower frequently outsources due to limited output capability. This is not an uncommon practice for smaller factories that only have one or two lines. This isn't news.

 

We don't know if Aris's PSU's blew up due to quality issues or poor design. Frankly, Jeremy's sample could have blown up just the same IF he had tested the same way. He did not. For all we know, Aris could have had a beautifully soldered sample direct from the Super Flower engineering lab, did his OPP test and it would have blown up just the same.

 

The only "conspiracy" here is that a lot of companies will "cherry pick" review samples and will withhold from sending review samples to certain reviewers if they know that particular reviewer's methodology may expose a products weaknesses. But this is not new and is hardly news. HardOCP jumped on reporting this originally because they like to make it a frequent practice (and a good one at that) to buy review samples from retail and championed around Seasonic's decision to ship reviewers samples directly from retail by "breaking" that "exclusive" news as well. That's what this is. Nothing more.

 

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7 minutes ago, HKZeroFive said:

This is a conspiracy theory if I've ever seen one. You have a company that outsources to other factories; we don't know who made JonnyGuru's sample and we don't know who made the unit that Aris bought. The article also fails to note that the testing methodologies are completely different. One overloads the unit to test the OPP, the other only goes as far to test the unit to its rated capacity.

 

Don't believe me? Here it is from @jonnyGURU's own mouth:

 

 

It would be interesting if JonnyGuru could buy one from retail and test it themselves, to see if something is up. It might just be that or it could be something more. But until we have more definitive information this rumor is going to spread further.

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2 hours ago, HKZeroFive said:

This is a conspiracy theory if I've ever seen one. You have a company that outsources to other factories; we don't know who made JonnyGuru's sample and we don't know who made the unit that Aris bought. The article also fails to note that the testing methodologies are completely different. One overloads the unit to test the OPP, the other only goes as far to test the unit to its rated capacity.

 

Don't believe me? Here it is from @jonnyGURU's own mouth:

 

 

Does jonnyGURU usually talk about himself in the third person?  Where did this quote come from?

 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Does jonnyGURU usually talk about himself in the third person?  Where did this quote come from?

From the comments section of the TPU article about the situation: https://www.techpowerup.com/237767/evga-caught-sending-golden-samples-of-the-supernova-b3-to-jonnyguru?cp=2#comments

 

And not sure why you think he's talking about himself in third person... his name is not Jeremy. He's not the one who reviewed the unit on his website.

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