Long cable vs Router train

[kurtwism]

Hello,

 

I live in a 3 story house which is completely made of sandstone (including all internal walls and floors/ceilings.

 

The main hub for my internet (a Technicolor TG589vn v3 router, supplied by my broadband provider) is on the ground floor in my living room. I have a router (ASUS AC1200) on the first floor which is connected to the main hub via a CAT4 cable and provides good WiFi for this floor.

 

I spend a lot of my down time relaxing on the top floor and this is where my gaming PC is. I have bought a second ASUS AC1200 router for the top floor and don't know what the best method for obtaining the fastest internet speeds on this floor would be. I currently have a WiFi extender in the 'mancave' (on the top floor) which is connected to the first floor router via a CAT4 cable and my plan was to simply replae this with the new router. However, I recently bought a tool kit for setting up my own network cables and have been considering the idea of running a long CAT4 cable directly from the top floor router to the main hub on the ground floor in a bid to improve internet speeds.

 

The router on the top floor serves 2 purposes - to provide WiFi for this floor and as a connection point for my gaming PC (which I plan on connecting to the router via a CAT4 cable).

 

I'm certainly no expert when it comes to physics or networking hardware (or theory) and was hoping one of you more tech-savvy people could enlighten me as to which option should give me better results. My original plan to just connect the routers in series is the simplest method as all the cabling is already in place but I am willing to devote some time and effort to laying new cables if this will significantly impact my internet speed in the 'mancave.'

 

As a last point, there is also the option of running a CAT4 cable directly from the gaming PC all the way down to the internet hub on the first floor. Do you guys think this will drastically improve my internet speed?

 

Thanks and apologies for the essay-length post.

[79wjd]

What kind of internet speeds do you pay for and how long are these runs? Cat 4 could be causing your speed issues. You really should be using Cat 5E, or for longer runs, Cat 6. 

[brwainer]

Do you mean Cat5 cables, or do you truly have Cat4 cables running? If you actually have Cat4 cables, I would strongly recommend replacing them with Cat5e or Cat6 cables - especially since you are talking about running a new cable anyway.

 

Just to make sure I am clear, you are proposing three options:

1. Device A (Ground floor) connects to Device B (first floor), and another cable runs from Device B to Device C (second floor) - current setup
2. Device A has a cable running to Device B, and a second cable going directly to Device C
3. Same #1, except you also have a separate cable running to the second floor just for the computer.

If the connections at Device B are all using the LAN ports only (which are switched together at wire speeds) then you will not notice any appreciable difference between the three, but I personally would recommend #2, because that way an issue with Device B wouldn't give you problems on the second floor also. I don't know exactly how the device you are using is set up, since "AC1200" isn't the actual model number, Asus makes dozens of different "AC1200" devices. So for the best answer, please provide the model number.

[kurtwism]

26 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

What kind of internet speeds do you pay for and how long are these runs? Cat 4 could be causing your speed issues. You really should be using Cat 5E, or for longer runs, Cat 6. 

Hi and thanks for your reply - I've run speed tests at each location (ground, 1st and 2nd floors and attached the results below). Each test was run once, over WiFi only and within 2 meters of the main source of WiFi for that floor. Please see the results attached.

 

I'm not sure what the exact distance would be. My estimate would be 15-20 meters from the main hub to the 1st floor router and about 30-35 meters from the main hub to the 2nd floor. The distance of cable from the 1st floor router to the 2nd floor router would be about 20-25 meters. I know the distances don't add up but you have to keep in mind that if I decided to run cable from the main hub to the 2nd floor router then I would run that cable externally so it's basically just a vertical climb up the face of the house. There are already passages created for cable going from the ground to 1st floor router and 1st to 2nd floor routers and they are not 'direct' routes but follow walls and corners for a bit of cable management.

 

The coloured wires inside the plug all end in a straight line - I believe if they were CAT5E or later then they would end in a staggered pattern (but I may be mistaken). If that statement is correct then yes, they are definitely CAT4 cables.

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

[brwainer]

2 minutes ago, kurtwism said:

The coloured wires inside the plug all end in a straight line - I believe if they were CAT5E or later then they would end in a staggered pattern (but I may be mistaken). If that statement is correct then yes, they are definitely CAT4 cables.

The pattern of colors has nothing to do with the type of cable that is being used. As long as pin1 on one end connects to pin 1 on the other end, etc, the cable will work for basic connectivity. The staggered patterns that are used (TIA/EIA 568A/B) are recommended because they reduce crosstalk - this would be true of any cable used for ethernet, not just Cat5e and above.

[kurtwism]

42 minutes ago, brwainer said:

Do you mean Cat5 cables, or do you truly have Cat4 cables running? If you actually have Cat4 cables, I would strongly recommend replacing them with Cat5e or Cat6 cables - especially since you are talking about running a new cable anyway.

 

Just to make sure I am clear, you are proposing three options:

1. Device A (Ground floor) connects to Device B (first floor), and another cable runs from Device B to Device C (second floor) - current setup
2. Device A has a cable running to Device B, and a second cable going directly to Device C
3. Same #1, except you also have a separate cable running to the second floor just for the computer.

If the connections at Device B are all using the LAN ports only (which are switched together at wire speeds) then you will not notice any appreciable difference between the three, but I personally would recommend #2, because that way an issue with Device B wouldn't give you problems on the second floor also. I don't know exactly how the device you are using is set up, since "AC1200" isn't the actual model number, Asus makes dozens of different "AC1200" devices. So for the best answer, please provide the model number.

Hello and thank you too for your reply and advice.

 

Those are indeed the options I'm considering yes - except for 3. as I thought I could run a cable directly from device A to the gaming PC on the 2nd floor. 

 

If I went for option 2. then I would still run a cable from Device C to my gaming PC (as long as having it connected in series through 2 routers wouldn't significantly affect my internet speeds. I definitely wouldn't just run it off WiFi though - no matter how good a signal it would get.

 

All connections are using the LAN ports only.

 

Here is a link to the exact device I was referring to when I said I'm using an 'ASUS AC1200:'

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01F4WOFD6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I believe the model number is ASUS RT-AC1200G - apologies.

 

Thanks again.

[kurtwism]

3 minutes ago, brwainer said:

The pattern of colors has nothing to do with the type of cable that is being used. As long as pin1 on one end connects to pin 1 on the other end, etc, the cable will work for basic connectivity. The staggered patterns that are used (TIA/EIA 568A/B) are recommended because they reduce crosstalk - this would be true of any cable used for ethernet, not just Cat5e and above.

I see, so is there any way to differentiate a CAT 4 cable from a CAT 5E or CAT 6 cable?

 

Also, must a device be capable of utilising CAT 5E or above cables? Or can any connection be improved simply by modernising cables?

 

Thanks.

[79wjd]

So to be clear your internet comes into your house into the modem by your main hub (which I assume is also a wireless router). Then from there you have an Ethernet wire running to the router on the first floor, and then an Ethernet wire to the router on your second floor? I also assume that the speed test is (from top to bottom): main hub router, first floor router, second floor router? Are you using both the first and second floor routers in Access Point mode (e.g. DHCP off)? 

 

From the one speedtest you ran, one has much lower speeds then the rest -- possibly a worse quality router, greater load on that router, or just an inconsistent run? And the third result has a much higher ping, which would make sense if it has to go through the router on the first floor. I would recommend running a few more speed tests and just getting an average to see performance. 

 

And again, what kind of internet do you pay for? 

 

Just now, kurtwism said:

I see, so is there any way to differentiate a CAT 4 cable from a CAT 5E or CAT 6 cable?

 

Also, must a device be capable of utilising CAT 5E or above cables? Or can any connection be improved simply by modernising cables?

 

Thanks.

It should say on the cable itself. Cat5E has been the standard for almost 20 years, it just allows higher speeds (so, everything is compatible with it).

[kurtwism]

56 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

So to be clear your internet comes into your house into the modem by your main hub (which I assume is also a wireless router). Then from there you have an Ethernet wire running to the router on the first floor, and then an Ethernet wire to the router on your second floor? I also assume that the speed test is (from top to bottom): main hub router, first floor router, second floor router? Are you using both the first and second floor routers in Access Point mode (e.g. DHCP off)? 

 

From the one speedtest you ran, one has much lower speeds then the rest -- possibly a worse quality router, greater load on that router, or just an inconsistent run? And the third result has a much higher ping, which would make sense if it has to go through the router on the first floor. I would recommend running a few more speed tests and just getting an average to see performance. 

 

And again, what kind of internet do you pay for? 

 

It should say on the cable itself. Cat5E has been the standard for almost 20 years, it just allows higher speeds (so, everything is compatible with it).

 

Yep, you got it.

 

Sorry, the attachments were labelled but this does not show on the submission:

 

Ground Floor - 21.80

1st Floor - 22.70

2nd Floor - 9.43

 

At the moment the 2nd floor is just a WiFi extender (Netgear AC1200) - it will be replaced by an ASUS RT-AC1200G router once I decide on the best setup.

 

I think they are both set up in AP mode but I'm not sure.

 

I was mistaken - it does say it's CAT 5E on the cable (I have attached a photo of the cable connecting the main hub to the router on the 1st floor). So I assume all the cables must be CAT 5E then.

 

I'm afraid I don't know exactly what speed of internet we pay for as I'm not the account holder and can't find this information anywhere...I will post it once I have it. Probably tomorrow.

 

Thanks!

[jnic]

2 hours ago, kurtwism said:

CAT4

get cat5e a least 

[kurtwism]

2 minutes ago, jnic said:

get cat5e a least 

We've established that I'm using CAT 5E cables (see photo from my last post). Thanks.

[brwainer]

2 hours ago, kurtwism said:

Hello and thank you too for your reply and advice.

 

Those are indeed the options I'm considering yes - except for 3. as I thought I could run a cable directly from device A to the gaming PC on the 2nd floor. 

 

If I went for option 2. then I would still run a cable from Device C to my gaming PC (as long as having it connected in series through 2 routers wouldn't significantly affect my internet speeds. I definitely wouldn't just run it off WiFi though - no matter how good a signal it would get.

 

All connections are using the LAN ports only.

 

Here is a link to the exact device I was referring to when I said I'm using an 'ASUS AC1200:'

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01F4WOFD6/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I believe the model number is ASUS RT-AC1200G - apologies.

 

Thanks again.

If everything is connected using wires, then even going through all 3 of the devices wouldn't make a noticeable difference versus just going through one of them. For this model (RT-AC1200G) if you have put it into AP mode, then you may actually be able to use the WAN port as well - but you will get better results using the LAN ports only (in AP mode, routers normally "bridge" the WAN and LAN ports together, but this means that traffic still has to pass through the CPU, whereas traffic purely between the LAN ports will pass through a switch chip and can function at "wire" speed (gigabit)). Putting all this together, if you can, I'd run a cable to the second floor so that you don't have to be connected through all 3 for the gaming PC, but if that turns out to be difficult, you will still get a good experience using your existing wiring setup.

[Brian Blankenship]

If I had this situation, I think I would attack it this way.

 

Give each floor its own router in access point mode only. Also give each floor a switch, nothing huge 8 ports or less. connect the access points tot he switches and the switches to each other.

 

Diagram:

https://www.lucidchart.com/invitations/accept/e4709fd8-e407-4d09-a904-547ea840ac75

[kurtwism]

On 10/14/2017 at 2:50 AM, Brian Blankenship said:

If I had this situation, I think I would attack it this way.

 

Give each floor its own router in access point mode only. Also give each floor a switch, nothing huge 8 ports or less. connect the access points tot he switches and the switches to each other.

 

Diagram:

https://www.lucidchart.com/invitations/accept/e4709fd8-e407-4d09-a904-547ea840ac75

Thanks for the suggestion and diagram.

 

Each floor will have it's own router.

 

I wasn't aware of switches until you mentioned them - thank you for the enlightenment. I've done some research into them and I'm still not quite sure how this would be different from connecting up all the routers (in series) via LAN ports in AP mode and then connecting the gaming PC on the top floor to a LAN port on that floor's router however. Can you explain please?

 

I'd also like to thank all you guys for responding to my queries and helping me out with this project - you have been very helpful and I appreciate the feedback.

 

Thank you.

[Husaam7722]

get some cat 6 ethernet cable that is long enough to go to a ethernet hub wherever you need it.

 

 

[kurtwism]

1 minute ago, Husaam7722 said:

get some cat 6 ethernet cable that is long enough to go to a ethernet hub wherever you need it.

 

 

Thanks for the link - what I'm not sure about is the difference between connecting up all the routers (in series) via LAN ports in AP mode and then connecting the gaming PC on the top floor to a LAN port on that floor's router and using switches however.

 

Are you suggesting running a CAT6 cable directly from the main hub (router on ground floor) up top the top floor router? Or gaming PC? Do you think a single long cable will have any benefit over the serial LAN port connections we've been discussing?

 

Any idea if there will be any noticeable difference in performance between the 2 setups?

 

Thanks.

[Brian Blankenship]

17 hours ago, kurtwism said:

Thanks for the suggestion and diagram.

 

Each floor will have it's own router.

 

I wasn't aware of switches until you mentioned them - thank you for the enlightenment. I've done some research into them and I'm still not quite sure how this would be different from connecting up all the routers (in series) via LAN ports in AP mode and then connecting the gaming PC on the top floor to a LAN port on that floor's router however. Can you explain please?

 

I'd also like to thank all you guys for responding to my queries and helping me out with this project - you have been very helpful and I appreciate the feedback.

 

Thank you.

by employing both a router and a switch you can let the router handle only the traffic it needs to, while the switches handle the inter-floor traffic with little-increased latency. The router will need to work less. Something I've noted using my routers as access points is that when I also make that do switching for devices local to them, they start getting much hotter. That's the CPU working harder. If the router only needs to handle the WiFi traffic it ends up performing much better. At least in my own experience.

[brwainer]

1 hour ago, Brian Blankenship said:

by employing both a router and a switch you can let the router handle only the traffic it needs to, while the switches handle the inter-floor traffic with little-increased latency. The router will need to work less. Something I've noted using my routers as access points is that when I also make that do switching for devices local to them, they start getting much hotter. That's the CPU working harder. If the router only needs to handle the WiFi traffic it ends up performing much better. At least in my own experience.

if you have a router doing switching (defined as traffic going between devices connected to LAN ports) then only the switch chip, which can be outside of the CPU or integrated into the SoC, is doing more work - the CPU doesn't ever see purely switched traffic. It does cause heat in the switch chip, and in an SoC you could argue that the heat is in the "CPU area", but its not technically the CPU heating itself up for switched traffic. However if you mean bridging, where you are using the WAN port as part of the LAN set (as is commonly available with routers that have a builtin AP mode) then yes the bridged traffic gets processed by the OS on the CPU and would cause load/heat. So I would recommend that you not use the WAN/uplink port on routers that are in AP mode (use the LAN ports only). The only exception is routers like those made by Mikrotik, where instead of 2 hard connections on the CPU to the WAN and LAN, they can actually reassign the WAN port to be part of the switched ports on the switch chip when you aren't using them for NAT/Firewall.

 

For @kurtwism's case, I think using the routers as they already exist / are set up is fine, they are already doing much less work in the AP role than they would be as routers, regardless of whether the WAN/uplink port is being used or not.

[kurtwism]

Thank you all! Very helpful advice. I might consider using the switch method in future - though I am also considering upgrading to a fibre optic internet service to improve speeds.