General Intel HEDT Xeon/i7 Discussion

[GloriousPain]

1 minute ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Personally, I wouldn't sidegrade to Zen 1/Zen+. Just save up the cash and jump straight to Zen 2, it'll be more worth it.

 

Unless you're skeptical of being able to afford that in the future, at which point the sidegrade to Zen1/Zen+ would act as a foot in the door purchase.

May I ask why you wouldn't? Just the hassle of it for clear upgrade?

 

Because I'm just trying to think of the alternatives... if I sidegrade to the 2700... it'd nearly be free given the current going rates of my hardware on the used market. and it'd net me 2 more cores of similar speed new with an upgrade path towards more ipc in zen2/3 (since zen 3 is rumored to still be on AM4 next year) versus right now my only upgrade path is in terms of core counts given Haswell to Broadwell nets nearly no ipc gains, and I could still use the more cores for my non gaming tasks.

 

idk like I said I'm really on the fence mostly given the hassle and the fact I know I'd be giving up a lot of potential pcie and such expansion. Infavor of better upgrade potential.  But I'm starting to think you're probably right and maybe I should be looking towards other upgrade options I'm just starting to get an itch to upgrade and right now I'm seeing deals on Zen+ that remind me of the deals that got me on X99 in the firstplace. 

[Zando_]

6 hours ago, GloriousPain said:

May I ask why you wouldn't? Just the hassle of it for clear upgrade?

 

Because I'm just trying to think of the alternatives... if I sidegrade to the 2700... it'd nearly be free given the current going rates of my hardware on the used market. and it'd net me 2 more cores of similar speed new with an upgrade path towards more ipc in zen2/3 (since zen 3 is rumored to still be on AM4 next year) versus right now my only upgrade path is in terms of core counts given Haswell to Broadwell nets nearly no ipc gains, and I could still use the more cores for my non gaming tasks.

 

idk like I said I'm really on the fence mostly given the hassle and the fact I know I'd be giving up a lot of potential pcie and such expansion. Infavor of better upgrade potential.  But I'm starting to think you're probably right and maybe I should be looking towards other upgrade options I'm just starting to get an itch to upgrade and right now I'm seeing deals on Zen+ that remind me of the deals that got me on X99 in the firstplace. 

So from the way you're looking at it, you'll basically be moving to a 5960X with less clock headroom and dropping quad channel and PCIe lanes in exchange for the ability to hop to a 3700X in the future. Be aware a lot of B450 boards would have issues if you wanted to hop to a 3900X or 3950X, X470 boards aren't much better, and X570 boards aren't that cheap. 3700X is about 95% of what a 9900K is though, so it is an excellent option to upgrade to in future.

Haswell to Broadwell had no core count jump other than on the very highest tier, they added the 10c/20t 6950X. Which usually goes for around $700 on eBay, unless you can score a proper deal I'd say a 1680 V3 or 5960X is the reasonable top end. j-bin 5960Xs can be had for $250-290 depending on when you buy (they fluctuate a lot) and are on average better bins, giving you higher OC ceilings. My j-bin 5960X does 4.5Ghz at 1.2v, same voltage my 5820K takes for 300Mhz lower. I know of guys with especially good j-bins and proper cooling setups that safely run 5Ghz all-core 24/7. Wouldn't match a 3700X still, but a marked improvement over a 2700.

Also keep in mind your single core can drop dramatically with slower RAM on Ryzen, you typically want 3000-3200Mhz for Zen+. 3200Mhz CL14 or 3600MHz CL16 for Zen 2.

[GrockleTD]

14 hours ago, Zando Bob said:

can only use ECC non-reg and normal DDR3. If you already had RAM then that's not much of an issue, I just can't throw in the ECC I do have.

thats ok, as i do have plenty of DDR3 on hand now, and for the CPU, i do already have an X5680 on hand as well. as for cooling, i have a couple options on hand, although i do need to still get the bracket from Noctua for the primary one.

[Zando_]

Brand new 6950X for less than what I see them go for used on eBay.

[Kilrah]

My 2014 5960X build is celebrating its 5 years today, still going strong and reliably running 4.2GHz all cores 

Case is much more empty now that the 2 970s have been replaced with one 1070... and that 1070 being an ITX model so I can move it to my SFF build when I travel.

PSU needed replacement after it suffered from the notoriously poor mains at the location it spent its first 3 years at.

 

 

 

[kambi]

Hi guys. i just have one question for more experienced users. 

Will my Asus P6T Revorlution work with 8GB RAM modules? I cannot find any info about that and I'm worried that they support only 4GB max.

[the pudding]

18 minutes ago, kambi said:

Hi guys. i just have one question for more experienced users. 

Will my Asus P6T Revorlution work with 8GB RAM modules? I cannot find any info about that and I'm worried that they support only 4GB max.

Most X58 boards will work with 8gb dimms, the only reason the boards only state 24gb of ram as max is because 8gb dimms weren't a thing back in the X58 days (other than in the form of reg ECC if memory serves, if you'll excuse the pun) and they don't usually go back and validate stuff like that, the only issue you may run into is not being able to run higher uncore speeds as the larger dimms will be more strain on the memory controller but other than that should work absolutely fine 

[MaratM]

34 minutes ago, kambi said:

Hi guys. i just have one question for more experienced users. 

Will my Asus P6T Revorlution work with 8GB RAM modules? I cannot find any info about that and I'm worried that they support only 4GB max.

I used to run my p6t with 48 gb (6x8) of corsair vengeance 2400mhz at 2000 mhz the mobo just would not start with anything above 2000mhz

[kambi]

Thanks a lot! That's a pretty good news for me  .

In my country it's cheaper to get 2x8GB DDR3 then 3x4GB modules. Even with 3x8 in triple channel it will be still around same as for 12GB. About issue with more then 2000Mhz i knew before.

[Zando_]

1 hour ago, kambi said:

Thanks a lot! That's a pretty good news for me  .

In my country it's cheaper to get 2x8GB DDR3 then 3x4GB modules. Even with 3x8 in triple channel it will be still around same as for 12GB. About issue with more then 2000Mhz i knew before.

I run 3x8GB HyperX Savage 1600Mhz CL9 stuff without issue, even though PCPP always screams at me that it's not compatible (like @the pudding said, they just don't bother to go back and validate stuff for old platforms). On good chips/mobos I'll get them to 2100Mhz CL10-11-11-31 at 1.65v, on oofies chips I just run them stock. Ran them on my Classified boards, X58 Micro, an ASUS Rampage III Formula, and IIRC an MSI Big Bang Xpower board as well. No issues on any of them. 

[Slayer3032]

I have no less than 3-4 different models of memory in my home server with 3x4gb and 3x8gb running in triple channel 1600mhz CL9 on my standard P6T. X58 compatible cpus might not have the best DDR3 IMCs out there but you can generally do 8gb dimms and/or upto 2000mhz or so. Pretty sure X58 was the first consumer DDR3 platform so...

 

Memory compatibility can be hit or miss but that happens with everything, even more so when you're using memory that can be 5-6 years newer than your platform. If it doesn't want to post, try mixing in a more conservative stick someone has laying around. I leave a spare 2GB Samsung 1333mhz ECC stick behind one of my dust filters for whenever my board decides to fail to post and tries to use timings on the memory that apparently don't work.

[Troika]

I got my i7 970 today, picked it up for a nice $27 on ebay. I knew it was gonna be better than a i7 920, I just didn't think the difference was gonna be THIS massive. 50% over my maxed out i7 920.

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/21047394/fs/20401988

I managed to get to 4.33Ghz but it crashed as soon as temps hit 85C so it could be that I don't have enough Vcore or its just getting too hot, could be both. Either way, I'm gonna need better cooling if I plan on pushing over 1.35 Vcore. Right now, 4.14Ghz is plenty fine at 1.3V.

Some other numbers:
CB R15: 950 @ 4.33Ghz | 891 @ 4.14Ghz
CB R20: Failed @ 4.33Ghz | 1877 @ 4.14Ghz

[GrockleTD]

well, finally submitted my request for an LGA 1366 mounting kit for my NH-D15, hopefully it goes through

[unclewebb]

@Troika Give that new CPU some more voltage and watch it come alive.  Here is a number for reference.  This old tech is bullet proof.  No worries about hurting it, especially at $27.

 

 

 

[Slayer3032]

1 hour ago, unclewebb said:

@Troika Give that new CPU some more voltage and watch it come alive.  Here is a number for reference.  This old tech is bullet proof.  No worries about hurting it, especially at $27.

 

 

 

I really need to remove the heatsinks off my fastest memory and dump some more voltage at my R15 and R20 runs, I wasn't giving it over 1.5v since I'm only using my NH-D14 in a mediocre Corsair 450D as it's my personal build. I didn't have fan speed control at the time, doubt they were even at 70%. It got nice and toasty in the high 90's but being a full tenth of a volt under everyone else with similar scores, I'm sure there's more left in it lol.

 

HWBot could really use some more scores, I think I'm still #1 on Westmere for R20.

https://hwbot.org/submission/4244334_

https://hwbot.org/submission/4244336_

 

 

[Troika]

On 11/27/2019 at 7:56 PM, unclewebb said:

@Troika Give that new CPU some more voltage and watch it come alive.  Here is a number for reference.  This old tech is bullet proof.  No worries about hurting it, especially at $27.

 

 

 

I need a better cooling solution first before I can push it more. This is also my only computer so I don't want to break somethink I can't replace easily.

[Intelfreak]

On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 6:34 AM, Troika said:

I got my i7 970 today, picked it up for a nice $27 on ebay. I knew it was gonna be better than a i7 920, I just didn't think the difference was gonna be THIS massive. 50% over my maxed out i7 920.

https://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/21047394/fs/20401988

I managed to get to 4.33Ghz but it crashed as soon as temps hit 85C so it could be that I don't have enough Vcore or its just getting too hot, could be both. Either way, I'm gonna need better cooling if I plan on pushing over 1.35 Vcore. Right now, 4.14Ghz is plenty fine at 1.3V.

Some other numbers:
CB R15: 950 @ 4.33Ghz | 891 @ 4.14Ghz
CB R20: Failed @ 4.33Ghz | 1877 @ 4.14Ghz

Yeah as they other said to you, dont be afraid to punnish X58 CPU´s. They can take a good beating. Intel reccoment 1.4 volts to cores as max for the 32 NM gulftown chips as your new I7 970 is based on and My own I7 980X that i feed 1.43 volts for 4.4 GHz for 24/7 use over 3 years so far and it has never shown signs of dying. For benchmark i have even feed it 1.55 volts for up to 4.75 GHz and my old i7 920 i have OC to 4.4 GHz as well in the last two years i had it. They can take some punishment is properly the point of my comment.

 

My acchivements with my I7 920 and i7 980X. Clocks vary a bit, but to show that punishing X58 CPU´s dosent mean they dies on you that easly.

I7 920

 

I7 980X

https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/10037039

[GrockleTD]

once again no post, beginning to suspect the case is at fault. hoping the board isn't fried

[Troika]

On 11/29/2019 at 3:00 PM, Intelfreak said:

Yeah as they other said to you, dont be afraid to punnish X58 CPU´s. They can take a good beating. Intel reccoment 1.4 volts to cores as max for the 32 NM gulftown chips as your new I7 970 is based on and My own I7 980X that i feed 1.43 volts for 4.4 GHz for 24/7 use over 3 years so far and it has never shown signs of dying. For benchmark i have even feed it 1.55 volts for up to 4.75 GHz and my old i7 920 i have OC to 4.4 GHz as well in the last two years i had it. They can take some punishment is properly the point of my comment.

 

My acchivements with my I7 920 and i7 980X. Clocks vary a bit, but to show that punishing X58 CPU´s dosent mean they dies on you that easly.

I7 920

 

I7 980X

https://www.userbenchmark.com/UserRun/10037039

I'm more concerned over the board failing because its expensive to replace, even more so considering its a MSI Big Bang Xpower. Trying to pick up another board of that level for a decent price will be neigh impossible. I bet its $200+ for a comperable replacement.

[Zando_]

4 hours ago, Troika said:

its $200+ for a comperable replacement.

Quite often yes, but it you just snoop around a bit you can find them free (I was given that Xpower in a PC from a relative, others have had luck looking around locally), snag good deals on various forums and stuff like Craigslist, or even eBay. I got an EVGA X58 Classified SLI 3-Way for $90 with an i7 920, and that board is on a level with or above the Xpowers. 

(also note: y'all can snip the photos when you quote, just makes threads easier on the eyes)

[MaratM]

8 hours ago, Troika said:

I'm more concerned over the board failing because its expensive to replace, even more so considering its a MSI Big Bang Xpower. Trying to pick up another board of that level for a decent price will be neigh impossible. I bet its $200+ for a comperable replacement.

If you are using your x58 board as you daily driver and it is the only pc you have do not try to push it to 4,5-4,7 ghz with 1.5 volts, even if the cpu is an easy replacement the good motherboard is not. If it burns just let it go. The modern cpu’s are more powerfull and much more power efficient. At the time of high ddr4 prices x58 with ddr3 was a good alternative, but nowdays ddr4 is not that expensive And if you are not trying to break memory overclocking records it is not that expensive to get a 3000+ mhz kit. 

Ryzen5 or coffeelake i5 cost just over $150 with a motherboard for around $60-100 it is not that expensive. And it delivers more or less same multithread performance as 6-core x58 and a greater single core performance. And if you now what to do you can run coffeelake on 100 series motherboard (and they are dirt cheap)

[the pudding]

12 hours ago, MaratM said:

If you are using your x58 board as you daily driver and it is the only pc you have do not try to push it to 4,5-4,7 ghz with 1.5 volts, even if the cpu is an easy replacement the good motherboard is not. If it burns just let it go. The modern cpu’s are more powerfull and much more power efficient. At the time of high ddr4 prices x58 with ddr3 was a good alternative, but nowdays ddr4 is not that expensive And if you are not trying to break memory overclocking records it is not that expensive to get a 3000+ mhz kit. 

Ryzen5 or coffeelake i5 cost just over $150 with a motherboard for around $60-100 it is not that expensive. And it delivers more or less same multithread performance as 6-core x58 and a greater single core performance. And if you now what to do you can run coffeelake on 100 series motherboard (and they are dirt cheap)

I really wish you could get ryzen stuff that cheap here, just a 1600 by itself here is around the 100 quid mark, it actually worked out cheaper for me to move up to X79 than it did to go ryzen personally but that's just wacky pricing over here as usual 

[MaratM]

8 hours ago, the pudding said:

I really wish you could get ryzen stuff that cheap here, just a 1600 by itself here is around the 100 quid mark, it actually worked out cheaper for me to move up to X79 than it did to go ryzen personally but that's just wacky pricing over here as usual 

Looks like UK is not the best place for a pc enthusiast) used to live in Oxford (studied there) for 4 years, it was not that bad at that time (around 15 years ago)

[the pudding]

13 hours ago, MaratM said:

Looks like UK is not the best place for a pc enthusiast) used to live in Oxford (studied there) for 4 years, it was not that bad at that time (around 15 years ago)

for other stuff it's not so bad tbf, i think it's more just because ryzen has been in demand for a while for budget systems more than anything, i got my P9X79 pro and the E5 1620 (placeholder till the 12th since a friend offered me his 4930K for £35, can't say no to that) for like £120 shipped, just need a better cpu and another 8gb of ram to bring me up to 32gb and I'm all set 

[Macusn]

All

Just found this thread, loving it,  and I am sort of getting ready to up my x58 set up.  Building a new PC and will give the x58 to my 14 year old son. 

Asus p6x58 delux

Intel 950

Cooler master (212?) with push pull

12 gigs ram

 Corsair 850w P

 various drives including an SSD (what a difference that made!),   card reader

 lightning fast GTX 460

 Cooler Master ATX case. 

I will need to get him a better graphics card but I have picked up a 980x to drop in after I get the other build done to give us 6 cores (waiting on an adapter from Noctura, coming from AU so 3 weeks for the new build).  I have never flashed the BIOS so that will be the scary part for me.

 

I built this system 8-9 years ago and wanted it to work for me for a while and its still going strong.  The last gaming I did was COD 3/4 back in the days and I have never updated the GPU (did have to replace one that died).  I think with the children growing up maybe I will get a little time to game again?

 

New build for longevity, getting the years of video of the family edited, maybe that gaming!  I will most likely only over clock to see what head room I have and then bring it back down.

9900k

Gigabite z390 designare

seasonic 850 modular ps

bunch of ram

Noctura NH 12 

Define R6 usb c

I have a 850 EVO to use as the boot drive.

 

Waiting on price drops for nvme drive 1tb

video card

will add some spinning HD and a Optane 32g NVME to accelerate one.

 

Might take the 950, find a used mother board, create a server for the house (NAS) (and maybe a mine craft server for the family, daughter likes to play also, but I think that might be better if run from the 9900)

 

Let you know when I make some progress.

 

Mac