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144Hz questions

Draydince

I currently have a 24" 1080p 60hz Acer monitor - I don't recall the model offhand. Anyway, I have a friend who's using a 22 inch 900p monitor and he wants a bigger monitor, so I'm giving him a deal on my current monitor.

As a replacement, I'm considering getting a 24" 1080p 144hz monitor - particularly the GN246HL since it's on sale right now, but I have a few concerns.

When watching videos, be it cinematic or youtube, I've heard they can look quite bad on a 144hz monitor due to the refresh rate not being divisible, or something along those lines - is there any truth to that?

I also play some extremely unoptimized games, like Rust and Ark - which can have some huge frame dips. Will dipping below 60 "feel" more sluggish from 144hz as opposed to dipping below 60 from a 60hz monitor? 

I'm also considering getting a 75hz monitor simply because they're cheaper. Would that look any better/different for videos and those dippy/unoptimized games?

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144 is divisible by 24 :S 

 

You can also choose to run the monitor at 60hz instead of 144hz. What GPU do you have? 

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10 minutes ago, Draydince said:

When watching videos, be it cinematic or youtube, I've heard they can look quite bad on a 144hz monitor due to the refresh rate not being divisible, or something along those lines - is there any truth to that?

I'm unsure. I recently upgraded to the AOC G2460PF (basically the same monitor you're looking at but freesync enabled. I'm using a 980ti so the freesync feature is irrelevant, making our monitors basically identical) and I've not noticed any Youtube or video watching abnormalities. I get what you're saying, 25, 30 fps, and 60fps video would not divide evenly into 144hz (24hz does though, which is what a lot of stuff is shot in, so no worries there especially for movies) therefore we should experience some kind of visual tearing, but for one reason or another that doesn't appear to be the case in my experience. Visual media looks the same as it did on my Asus VX228H (60hz 1080p). This is probably a result of the innate motion blur captured by cameras, but that is speculation on my part. Maybe the monitor is smart adapting for all I know.
 

10 minutes ago, Draydince said:

I also play some extremely unoptimized games, like Rust and Ark - which can have some huge frame dips. Will dipping below 60 "feel" more sluggish from 144hz as opposed to dipping below 60 from a 60hz monitor?

Yes. The drop from 60fps to 50fps can be noticed if you're paying attention and sensitive to the issue, but the drop from 144fps to 50fps is extremely like "woah what the actual shit" kind of noticed haha.
 

10 minutes ago, Draydince said:

I'm also considering getting a 75hz monitor simply because they're cheaper. Would that look any better/different for videos and those dippy/unoptimized games?

visual media should still look the same (as mentioned above) and dips to a low framerate would feel less impactful, and would happen less often, with a lower refresh rate monitor.

You can always tell your 144hz monitor to simply run at a lower refresh rate if you're paranoid about certain games or experiences.

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No. it will not feel any different from going below 60fps on a 60hz monitor (other than you now being used to seeing higher frames so it might look worse?) but its the same. and no. movies, videos, ect look fine. go for a 144hz

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6 minutes ago, Zyndo said:

I'm unsure. I recently upgraded to the AOC G2460PF (basically the same monitor you're looking at but freesync enabled. 

Is the G2460 the monitor that I've seen quite a few reports of not actually being 144hz?

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Just now, djdwosk97 said:

Is the G2460 the monitor that I've seen quite a few reports of not actually being 144hz?

what else would it be? near as I can tell in every conceivable way its running at 144hz.

and how could anyone get away with selling a 144hz monitor if it wasn't capable of operating at 144hz?

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8 minutes ago, Zyndo said:

I'm unsure. I recently upgraded to the AOC G2460PF (basically the same monitor you're looking at but freesync enabled. I'm using a 980ti so the freesync feature is irrelevant, making our monitors basically identical) and I've not noticed any Youtube or video watching abnormalities. I get what you're saying, 25, 30 fps, and 60fps video would not divide evenly into 144hz (24hz does though, which is what a lot of stuff is shot in, so no worries there especially for movies) therefore we should experience some kind of visual tearing, but for one reason or another that doesn't appear to be the case in my experience. Visual media looks the same as it did on my Asus VX228H (60hz 1080p). This is probably a result of the innate motion blur captured by cameras, but that is speculation on my part. Maybe the monitor is smart adapting for all I know.
 

Yes. The drop from 60fps to 50fps can be noticed if you're paying attention and sensitive to the issue, but the drop from 144fps to 50fps is extremely like "woah what the actual shit" kind of noticed haha.
 

visual media should still look the same (as mentioned above) and dips to a low framerate would feel less impactful, and would happen less often, with a lower refresh rate monitor.

You can always tell your 144hz monitor to simply run at a lower refresh rate if you're paranoid about certain games or experiences.

Thanks for the detailed response! I think you gave me the confidence boost I needed to make the jump. Though I am a little scared about the major dips from those unoptimized games. I have a GTX 1070, so I can achieve 100+ in most games, I just hope it's not as drastic as I'm visioning it in my mind of going all the way from 100+ to >60 as opposed to 60 >60

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21 minutes ago, Draydince said:

 

First off, I'd get the free-sync version someone else mentioned, still cheap and gives you the option of free-sync, even if you currently have an nvidia GPU**

 

to answer your questions, No it'll work fine. Your CPU is the limiting factor for 144hz gaming.

https://www.amazon.com/AOC-G2460PF-24-Inch-Professional-Monitor/dp/B01BV1XBEI/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1506918294&sr=1-1&keywords=AOC+144hz

75Hz is only going to be worth it if it's maybe IPS, but there's only like one of those and it's not in the US still I don't think, was overpriced anyways.


You could also spend $50 more and get a Korean 1080p 144hz VA panel which will be potentially better overall.

I edit my posts a lot, Twitter is @LordStreetguru just don't ask PC questions there mostly...
 

Spoiler

 

What is your budget/country for your new PC?

 

what monitor resolution/refresh rate?

 

What games or other software do you need to run?

 

 

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Just now, Zyndo said:

what else would it be? near as I can tell in every conceivable way its running at 144hz.

and how could anyone get away with selling a 144hz monitor if it wasn't capable of operating at 144hz?

60hz and marketing nonsense. I've always assumed it was people who were too stupid to realize HDMI 1.2 doesn't support 144hz single-link DVI. 

 

http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

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Just now, Streetguru said:

First off, I'd get the free-sync version someone else mentioned, still cheap and gives you the option of free-sync

 

to answer your questions, No it'll work fine.

https://www.amazon.com/AOC-G2460PF-24-Inch-Professional-Monitor/dp/B01BV1XBEI/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1506918294&sr=1-1&keywords=AOC+144hz

75Hz is only going to be worth it if it's maybe IPS, but there's only like one of those and it's not in the US still I don't think, was overpriced anyways.


You could also spend $50 more and get a Korean 1080p 144hz VA panel which will be potentially better overall.

I already have a 1070, and don't see myself getting an AMD gpu anytime soon. Not because I dislike AMD, I really have no loyalty to one over the othr - but AMD prices are way too bipolar at the moment.

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Just now, Draydince said:

Thanks for the detailed response! I think you gave me the confidence boost I needed to make the jump. Though I am a little scared about the major dips from those unoptimized games. I have a GTX 1070, so I can achieve 100+ in most games, I just hope it's not as drastic as I'm visioning it in my mind of going all the way from 100+ to >60 as opposed to 60 >60

Think of it this way... when you go from 100+ down to 60, you feel it. yet 60 was always fine before. after you get this 144hz experience you will notice 60 when you go down. not that it will suddenly feel horrible and unbearable, but you will see it and feel it. So of course going even below that will feel worse than starting at 60 and then going down a bit.

But like I said, if it becomes a problem in some titles, you can easily turn your monitor into a 60hz monitor again no issues for temporary games which can't handle it.

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Just now, Draydince said:

 

DId some editing, should get it even if you have nvidia, either they'll care about freedom and enable the feature, or Navi will be a good enough reason to upgrade, though at 1080p, eh unless game visuals improve so much a 1070 isn't good enough for 1080p

Like I said in the edit your CPU is the bigger factor for 144hz gaming.

I edit my posts a lot, Twitter is @LordStreetguru just don't ask PC questions there mostly...
 

Spoiler

 

What is your budget/country for your new PC?

 

what monitor resolution/refresh rate?

 

What games or other software do you need to run?

 

 

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Just now, Streetguru said:

like I said in the edit your CPU is the bigger factor for 144hz gaming.

Right. I was only referring to the Freesync aspect.

I'm also hesitent to get a 144hz monitor because as it is, I already have an unhealthy obsession with upgrading every year even when I don't need to... I'm worried this is going to fuel my already unhealthy obsession, the second I dip below 144 - oops, time to upgrade again.

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2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

60hz and marketing nonsense. I've always assumed it was people who were too stupid to realize HDMI 1.2 doesn't support 144hz single-link DVI. 

 

http://www.testufo.com/#test=framerates

there is no "marketing nonsense" if they're outright lying. Its false advertising and its illegal.

Its likely user error, either using the wrong cable or not knowing that 144hz is a manually set feature (even on a native 144hz panel). It doesn't auto-detect and auto-apply. gotta adjust computer based settings before it sends a 144hz signal to your monitor.

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1 minute ago, Draydince said:

 

a 1070 won't dip depending on your settings. What's your CPU?

I edit my posts a lot, Twitter is @LordStreetguru just don't ask PC questions there mostly...
 

Spoiler

 

What is your budget/country for your new PC?

 

what monitor resolution/refresh rate?

 

What games or other software do you need to run?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Zyndo said:

there is no "marketing nonsense" if they're outright lying. Its false advertising and its illegal.

Its likely user error, either using the wrong cable or not knowing that 144hz is a manually set feature (even on a native 144hz panel). It doesn't auto-detect and auto-apply. gotta adjust computer based settings before it sends a 144hz signal to your monitor.

Interpolation. A lot of (most) TVs are listed as being 120, 240, 480, or even 960hz (generally a plasma thing) -- but most are only actually 60hz and anything higher is merely interpolation. So not lying.

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Just now, Streetguru said:

a 1070 won't dip depending on your settings. What's your CPU?

At the moment, just a temporary FX 8350 placeholder. I know that wont maintain a constant 100+, I sold off my 4790k and will be upgrading eventually. Though in games like Rust, and especially ark, it doesn't matter what you have - you will dip haha, that was the biggest reason I asked since those are so horribly unoptimized. 

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Just now, djdwosk97 said:

Interpolation. A lot of (most) TVs are listed as being 120, 240, 480, or even 960hz (generally a plasma thing) -- but most are only actually 60hz and anything higher is interpolation.

From my understanding, A lot of them actually ARE generating those kinds of refresh rates, they merely calculate the motion between frames and put in estimated frames of what the image should look like in the space between two actual frames.... Resulting in a smoother more fluent image. So the frames are there even if they aren't natively there. Wouldn't be any good on a monitor because that process creates some delay, but its totally fine with predictable media like TV and Movies. 

There are also many many different kinds of "interpolation" in the world.... the term used in this way isn't really explaining anything, merely saying that such a thing is occurring.

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Just now, Draydince said:

At the moment, just a temporary FX 8350 placeholder. I know that wont maintain a constant 100+, I sold off my 4790k and will be upgrading eventually. Though in games like Rust, and especially ark, it doesn't matter what you have - you will dip haha, that was the biggest reason I asked since those are so horribly unoptimized. 

GPUs can scale the graphics down to bring up the frame rate changing either settings or resolution to bring up it's frame rate, the CPU can't really scale up to run some games at 144fps, like your FX chip is going to be a bottleneck there. even a 4790K would technically be a bottleneck because it's not kaby lake at 5ghz.

like an RX 560 tier GPU can run a game at like 640x480 to hit 144fps if you really wanted it. But the CPU can never really get faster like that.

Some unoptimized games might be beyond saving ya.

There's Ryzen vs 7700K for 144hz, I'd probably just get Ryzen for twice the cores even if it's at the cost of some max fps. since it'll still push over 100fps on average, or save on an R5 1600 which will be same in most games.
 


 

I edit my posts a lot, Twitter is @LordStreetguru just don't ask PC questions there mostly...
 

Spoiler

 

What is your budget/country for your new PC?

 

what monitor resolution/refresh rate?

 

What games or other software do you need to run?

 

 

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1 minute ago, Zyndo said:

From my understanding, A lot of them actually ARE generating those kinds of refresh rates, they merely calculate the motion between frames and put in estimated frames of what the image should look like in the space between two actual frames.... Resulting in a smoother more fluent image. So the frames are there even if they aren't natively there. Wouldn't be any good on a monitor because that process creates some delay, but its totally fine with predictable media like TV and Movies. 

There are also many many different kinds of "interpolation" in the world.... the term used in this way isn't really explaining anything, merely saying that such a thing is occurring.

Some certainly do, there also are true 120hz TVs, but that doesn't change the fact that a lot of TVs are marketed as having a higher refresh rate than they actually have. And you're right, it does add delay and shouldn't be in a monitor, but again, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen -- especially on an ultra budget monitor where they need to cut corners in order to still be profitable. 

 

Open the link I sent you. It will be painfully obvious if it's true 144hz or not.

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1 minute ago, Streetguru said:

GPUs can scale the graphics down to bring up the frame rate changing either settings or resolution to bring up it's frame rate, the CPU can't really scale up to run some games at 144fps, like your FX chip is going to be a bottleneck there. even a 4790K would technically be a bottleneck because it's not kaby lake at 5ghz.

like an RX 560 tier GPU can run a game at like 640x480 to hit 144fps if you really wanted it. But the CPU can never really get faster like that.

Some unoptimized games might be beyond saving ya.

There's Ryzen vs 7700K for 144hz, I'd probably just get Ryzen for twice the cores even if it's at the cost of some max fps. since it'll still push over 100fps on average, or save on an R5 1600 which will be same in most games.
 


Yeah, I know the FX will hold me back. I actually sold my 4790k to get Ryzen, but i was having a lot of issues with it. Frequencies were locked to a static 1.5ghz when overclocking with a static voltage, using offset allowed me to overclock but then it would randomly spike up an extra 100mhz higher than it was set to which lead to crashing. I ended up RMA'ing it. It was good when it worked, but it didn't work far too often for me to risk trouble shooting past my 30 day return period. I did spend those 30 days troubleshooting though. I really wanted it to work. I would rather an 8 core than a 6 core, but it looks like I may end up getting an 8700k. Or even waiting a gen after that, I'm really not sure yet. Really just depends if Z370 will have an upgrade path.

 

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1 minute ago, Draydince said:

Really just depends if Z370 will have an upgrade path.

That's a good one.

 

If you want an upgrade path get Ryzen, Should be supported until 2020, Intel changes sockets or in this case chipsets almost yearly now. Their next socket may last longer, right now they're scrambling to deal with Ryzen it seems.

For some philosophy stuff, if you want AMD to improve you kind of have to support them and buy their products, course this time their products knocked it out of the park.

The other issue being you're going to have to delid your intel CPU for heavier overclocking for pushing those ultra high frame rates as well, another added cost potentially, also don't know yet how well Coffee Lake will overclock

Were you ever going to do any game capture, streaming or heavy rendering?

I edit my posts a lot, Twitter is @LordStreetguru just don't ask PC questions there mostly...
 

Spoiler

 

What is your budget/country for your new PC?

 

what monitor resolution/refresh rate?

 

What games or other software do you need to run?

 

 

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I get it, you like AMD - I'm not looking to have this debate lol... I only came here for monitor questions.

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1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

Some certainly do, there also are true 120hz TVs, but that doesn't change the fact that a lot of TVs are marketed as having a higher refresh rate than they actually have. And you're right, it does add delay and shouldn't be in a monitor, but again, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen -- especially on an ultra budget monitor where they need to cut corners in order to still be profitable. 

 

Open the link I sent you. It will be painfully obvious if it's true 144hz or not.

I did. and its working fine.

But no matter what, a company cannot say their product can run at 960hz if it simply cannot do so. there has to be SOME grain of truth to it. They can stretch the truth, they can bend their words, they can even trick you into thinking they're saying something they're not. But if they outright say X product comes with Y stat.... then it must be capable of fulfilling that stat in some capacity.

For example, often times on the side of an external HDD's box it'll say like "USB 3.0 gives you up to 500MBps transfer speeds"... even though the HDD may never break 100 or 150MBps actual transfer speed in any situation ever.... they can say that because its USB 3.0 enabled, and that is (roughly) the bandwidth limitation of USB 3.0, and they're talking about USB 3.0 in that statement. Its complete BS IMO, but they can say it and its not wrong. But if they say "This HDD is capable of 500MBps sustained transfer speeds" they are lying and cannot do it. Certainly not in North America anyway... so when they say its a 960hz tv, it HAS to be producing 960 frames in some fashion, even though the content you're watching is very likely only 24-30 fps

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15 minutes ago, Draydince said:

I get it, you like AMD - I'm not looking to have this debate lol... I only came here for monitor questions.

The CPU was related to monitors/refresh rate.

Also there's this $250 144hz VA panel, though it's a korean monitor, may be better overall because of the display type. even good TN is still TN.

https://www.amazon.com/FreeSync-1920x1080-Samsung-Professional-Monitor/dp/B072K3Z5NC/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1500993415&sr=8-1&keywords=pixio+px245c&linkCode=sl1&tag=jokerprodu03-20&linkId=a84b9c9014cccccf3f7e55c410213958

[YouTube] Global Giveaway for Pixio Freesync Monitor (embed)

I edit my posts a lot, Twitter is @LordStreetguru just don't ask PC questions there mostly...
 

Spoiler

 

What is your budget/country for your new PC?

 

what monitor resolution/refresh rate?

 

What games or other software do you need to run?

 

 

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