DAN C4-SFX: A water & air cooled SFF case

[dondan]

 

Quote

"The only limit is your own imagination"

 

 

Introduction

 

DAN Cases is back and this is our next tribute to the SFF community.

I am proud to introduce you the C4-SFX. The name comes from the German envelope norm for A4 papers and the possibility to mount a SFX power supply inside. With this new product I like to address three disadvantages of the A4-SFX – limited cooling, limited front I/O ports, long production time and price tag. With the C4-SFX I like to expanse my product portfolio so it will be available next to the A4-SFX.

The result is a 9.85L SFF gaming case with the possibility to use with high-end standardized components while keep them cool and quiet.

 

 

How it works

 

The new design used a sandwich based hardware layout and offers space for full-size graphics cards, mITX motherboard and SFX power supply. Instead of mounting a flexible riser cable the new design comes with a hard riser. Therefore the graphics card will be above the motherboard.

To provide enough air for the CPU heatsink the case has two mount points for 120mm fan in the “bottom” area. In this area it is possible to mount a 240mm AIO. The fans sucking air from the inside and push hot airt out on the bottom side. Fresh air comes in through the topside. This creates a continuous airflow in the inside between the components.

The case allows for easy mounting of either SFX or SFX-L power supplies. The PSU is located in the front of the chassis. Depending on the size of the PSU, up to two 2.5” HDDs or SSDs can be mounted in the drive bay. This drive bay could potentially be mounted with rubber spacers to reduce vibration. A third drive can be mounted behind the front cover.

To increase the count of accessible front I/O ports, it features USB3.0 Type-C, USB3.0-Type-A, Line-Out and Microphone jacks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just Flip it

 

It is possible to flip the case 180°. Rotate the front, mount the case feets on the opposit side and flip the side cover. Now the fan area is on the top side. The allows for switching the front I/O from the right to left side.

 

 

 

Specification

 

Case Dimensions (H x W x D): 239,8 x 127,3 x 322,8mm, 9.85L
Overall Dimensions: 250 x 127,3 x 322,8mm (including case feets)
Weight: ??? Kg

Graphic cards support: Dual-Slot up to 295mm length
Motherboard support: Mini-ITX
Power Supply support: SFX, SFX-L
CPU Heatsink support: Up to 62mm height
Water cooling support: 240mm AIO
·      radiator thickness 38mm with 2x 16mm thick fans
·      radiator thickness 30mm with 2x 25mm thick fans
·      radiator thickness 27mm with 2x 25m thick fans
·      radiator thickness 22mm with 2x 25mm thick fans

Drives: 3 x 2.5" HDD/SSD

Front ports: 1 x USB 3.0 Type-A &  1x Type-C (internal 20pin plug), 1x Microphone, 1x Line-Out
Power button: Premium-grade button

Material: 1.5mm aluminum (outer parts), 1.5mm aluminum (inner parts)
Side panels: Easily clipp able with Lian Li Push Pin technology
Colors: Anodized sand blasted black or silver exterior, matte black painted interior

Risercard: Includes PCIe 16x hard riser

Price tag: 160-180€

 

Gallery

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FAQ

Coming soon

Thank you for reading and your support. Please let me know what you are think!

[whoisjaya]

Looking forward!

[TVwazhere]

This

Looks

AWESOME

 

I especially like the rotatability of the system, as I would prefer to move the air upwards with the flow of heat

 

Questrions:

Where are the three (3) 2.5" drives mounted? It looks like just above/below the GPU (depending on your orientation of the case) but it doesn't look like 3 can fit, maybe two at best.

Will there be support for the Gen2 connector? Lian li already has the cable retrofit for the PC-0xx series of cases, and the Cooler master C700p is the first case I know of to launch with 3.1 gen 2 connectors pre installed.

[dondan]

@TVwazhere 

You can mount two 2.5" drives in the drive bay and a third drive behind the front panel (it is the same for the A4-SFX). I will make a rendering to make this more clear.

Gen2 is a point that I have to think about. It will depend of the release date of the case. In the current situation I whould say only two Asus ITX boards isn't enough to got with the new internal 3.1 gen2 header.

[TVwazhere]

2 minutes ago, dondan said:

@TVwazhere 

You can mount two 2.5" drives in the drive bay and a third drive behind the front panel (it is the same for the A4-SFX). I will make a rendering to make this more clear.

Gen2 is a point that I have to think about. It will depend of the release date of the case. In the current situation I whould say only two Asus ITX boards isn't enough to got with the new internal 3.1 gen2 header.

I look forward to it! Also:

Quote

Plz don't close this thread.

Message added by LinusTech

Good too see recognition from the top of the food chain!

[dondan]

The fan question!

I am thinking making a special edition of this case with two preinstalled 2x 120x120x25mm fans. 
So there will be one version without fans and a second version with fans.
Do you have a prefered fan that I should consider?

 

[Notional]

Hah, made a profile on hardforum just to make a post. Missed the thread here apparently, doh! Looks great, now gimme! 

[Centricpeanut]

Returned to this forum just to say how super stoked I am for this case! Seems to address every issue I had with your previous cases, I'm so glad I waited until now.

Will be an instant preorder when they're up! Will be following super closely.

[dondan]

Thank you for you nice words. I am very exited testing the prototypes

[dondan]

Some guys requested a pass on the backside for external components like radiators under the desk or reservoir on the backside. What do you think about my implimentation of the Lian Li rubber pass?

 

[TVwazhere]

1 minute ago, dondan said:

Some guys requested a pass on the backside for external components like radiators under the desk or reservoir on the backside. What do you think about my implimentation of the Lian Li rubber pass?

It'll be a long run for tubing since the tube slots are in the front, but it technically would work. 

[dondan]

Furthermore I made two versions of the middle plate. I will test both on the prototype:

 

 

The left version is the new one the fan's will be covered by two 120mm fan guards/grill that will be included. The cover is necessary to prevent PSU wires falling in the fan. Also the left version will have a higher air flow through the middle plate. The disadvantage is, that I have to think about a new way to mount the bottom HDD bay, because the left fan guard will block the mount points.

 

The right version will have not the same high airflow like the left version this could be irrelevant,but it will provide a better stability for the case and support for the current HDD bay version.

 

If you take a deeper look on the picture you will see that I add some slot holes to the riser to increase the airflow in the motherboard area.

 

What do you think about it?

[TVwazhere]

53 minutes ago, dondan said:

Furthermore I made two versions of the middle plate. I will test both on the prototype:

 

 

The left version is the new one the fan's will be covered by two 120mm fan guards/grill that will be included. The cover is necessary to prevent PSU wires falling in the fan. Also the left version will have a higher air flow through the middle plate. The disadvantage is, that I have to think about a new way to mount the bottom HDD bay, because the left fan guard will block the mount points.

 

The right version will have not the same high airflow like the left version this could be irrelevant,but it will provide a better stability for the case and support for the current HDD bay version.

 

If you take a deeper look on the picture you will see that I add some slot holes to the riser to increase the airflow in the motherboard area.

 

What do you think about it?

I have a feeling the airflow wont matter enough to justify the grills. The right model version seems to be the best option

[dondan]

Yes I think you are right. Furthermore the right version has many holes that allows for attaching other stuff like thin pumps or reservoirs.

[dondan]

Why the air cooling principle of the C4-SFX will be better as the principle of the A4-SFX:

The first thought of many users that take a first look on the layout of the C4-SFX is: 

“The CPU cooler will be choke behind the GPU!”


The case is designed around the idea of using two 120mm fans in the bottom area. This means any use-case without case fans in the bottom is not supported.  The case fans will generate a continuous airflow between GPU and motherboard. Because of the small size of the C4-SFX the heat exchange will be very fast also on low fan speed. The main advantage of this concept is the fact, that there will be not left hot air inside the case. This is a huge advantage against the A4-SFX. A continuous airflow will reduce M.2 SSD, motherboard components and GPU backside temperature.

For extreme hardware constellations like Hex/Octacore CPU’s and GPU’s like the 1080 Ti the exhaust temperature of these components are very high. For the A4-SFX these components will increase the ambient temperature inside the case, so motherboard components and SSDs become very hot. Inside the C4-SFX the heat will be move out very quick.

Some of you may think: 

“The CPU cooler will get a lot of hot air from the backside of the GPU”

The continuous airflow of fresh air inside the case will feed the fan of the PSU and also the fan of the CPU heatsink. A part of this air will also travel the backside of the GPU and will be heated up by it. With airflow the increase will be very low, because the air will pass the GPU backside very quick so there is no chance to warming it up to a level that will be negative for the CPU heatsink. Also hot air that will be generated by the CPU will not be recycled by the CPU fan because the bottom fan sucks it away.

A second interesting option for customers that are planning to use big heatsink’s like the Cryorig C1 or Thermalright AXP200 is the SEMI-PASSIV cooling mode. If you mount the heatsink without the included fan and rotate it in this way that fresh air from the topside can easily pass through the heatsink it will work. Connect the bottom case fans with a Y-cable to the CPU fan port of your motherboard so it will act like CPU fans. Now they will spin faster if the CPU temperature will be higher and sucking more air through the heatsink. This will allow much bigger heatsinks and will be in interesting alternative to water cooling setups.

The cooling concept is very similar to a rack mounted server with the advantage of using bigger case fans for lower noise.

I hope this drawing made it clear:

Summary:

• no left hot air inside the case
• no recycled hot air for the CPU heatsink
• CPU heatsink will be inside a cooling tunnel so a semi-passive mode is possible
• much better temperature for motherboard components, backside of the GPU and M.2 SSD
  

Feel free to ask questions if something is not clear.

[dondan]

Belongs to the middle plate question: I made a test. I cut my hole design for a single 120mm fan on a cardboard with a plotter. With the cardboard attached the fan is much more noisy. Here is a website that comes to the same result:

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Effects-of-Grill-Patterns-on-Fan-Performance-Noise-107/

So maybe for a more silent setup, the fan grill version is the best design.

[dondan]

Hi there,

this is the second survey for the C4-SFX. I need your help once more for some design questions that will affect the outer look and GPU compatibility. So your choice will have a direct impact on the final product.

 

 

Link to survey:

Google Forms Survey

Thank you for your help!

[dondan]

Today I reviewed the result of the second survey.

 

94,4% of all voters like the design of the C4-SFX. So this makes me happy because it looks like I found a new outer design that is different to the old one that match your taste.

Relating the front logo question there is no real winner. So this is something I have to decide by myself. I think there are people that can’t life with the front logo because they like it clean. On the other hand people that like the logo will also buy the case without it. So I think I will do it like with the A4-SFX and make the C4-SFX without front logo.

For the back side 68,5% like to have venting holes. What I forget to say, these holes have no real function and will not have a real impact on cooling performance. Maybe this question is now biased because it is based on wrong hopes. In my opinion it would be the best to make the backside clean. External water cooling lovers can easily mod the case and everyone else will have a clean back side that looks more aesthetic then pre drilled tube holes. But the last word isn’t spoken I have to think about going the democratic or the dictatorial way.

Now we come to the last question. This one was the most important for me. For around 55% of the participant 2 Slot is enough and 45% like to have 2.5 Slot card support to fit cards like the Asus GTX 1080Ti Strix.

I thought the last days about it and found a solution that match everyone tastes. The C4-SFX will be the first sub 10L case that will fit both 2 and 2.5 Slot cards. 

In the first step I made the cutout and mounting bend 10mm longer. I removed the slot bar so the I/O ports of the card will be not covered if you shift it. In the second step I created a cover that will be useable in two directions. Direction one will support 2 Slot cards if you rotate the cover and screw it again to the case it will support 2.5 slot cards. I made two different types of covers. One cover with center bar and the other without it. What version do you prefer?

 

 

 

 

Supporting both card types require also changes on the riser car. So I have two ideas for it. The first idea is including two risers one for 2.5 slot cards and the other for 2 slot cards. The second idea is adding a second PCIe port to the current riser. Both PCIe Ports will be connected to the same lanes so you can’t use them simultaneous but both ports will have full PCIe 16x speed.

 

 

 

 

What do you think?

Thank you for your support.

Daniel Hansen

[TVwazhere]

2 hours ago, dondan said:

Now we come to the last question. This one was the most important for me. For around 55% of the participant 2 Slot is enough and 45% like to have 2.5 Slot card support to fit cards like the Asus GTX 1080Ti Strix.

I specifically voted 2.5 slot even though I'd probably never get a 2.5 slot, and here's why:

 

The cooler height is the only main concern in this "case" (badum tiss) Either 64mm or 54mm, and when you look at the coolers that could fit in that Above 54 but less than 64mm space, it's..... Kinda crap. Mostly stock heat sink imitators and lesser known brands, but when you look under the 54mm mark, two air coolers stand out IMO, the Cryorig C7 (47mm) and the Noctua NH9i (37mm) both very good coolers both in terms of performance and price. And when you consider even the C7 has more than 1/4" or 6.35mm of clearance, its a good option. Hence why I felt having a 2.5" option would be best, as most people wouldn't need the extra room for a beefier cooler, like the Noctua NH-L9x65 (which is basically a 65mm tall version of the previous cooler mentioned)

 

If you decide to go with the 2/2.5 slot bar design, definitely the one w/o center bar. Less intrusive for I/O (just in case, another case pun)

[dondan]

I played with my rendering tool:

 

(click for 4K view)

[TVwazhere]

Just now, dondan said:

I played with my rendering tool:
(click for 4K view)

So glad I have a 4k monitor so i can properly view this!

[Dissitesuxba11s]

@dondan Great product. It's similar to the M1 by Ncase.

 

Edit: Nevermind, misread Linus' comment.

[dondan]

I am thinking of a version with tempered glass window kit. Yes you are looking right, there are no venting holes on the side panel. I think the fans in the bottom create enough airflow through the complete case so the GPU will get enough air.

 

[TVwazhere]

29 minutes ago, dondan said:

I am thinking of a version with tempered glass window kit. Yes you are looking right, there are no venting holes on the side panel. I think the fans in the bottom create enough airflow through the complete case so the GPU will get enough air.

 

I love the look. I do worry about the clearance though. Reference cards might be okay, and maybe even 2 slot AIB coolers, but 2.5" slots will choke on the glass. Gamers nexus does testing on vertical GPU mounts with a MSI gaming X cooler on cases next to TG and they usually do pretty bad. But hooooly crap does that look good. I do wonder how difficult it would be to get on and off, since theres not as many good places to hold it when taking off/putting on... Maybe like 6mm higher so you can put your fingers under it for support, as well as less restricted airflow for the fans?

[jonnyyyl]

The bottom radiator seems like a fantastic idea.

Why is the mobo faced inside this time tho