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I Knew It. Intel Doesn't Want To Support Kaby Lake On Z370

23 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Can Intel stop making chipsets and allow some competition again?

Nvidia should make the chipsets ;)

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138 is a good number.

 

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Intel is the electronic tumor.

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56 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I agree.  I mentioned this way back when the rumours of this news broke and Luke said the same thing on the WAN show:

That may have been before I became a member here.  :P

57 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

In a market where Intel is the only real option, they can play tricks like this to force sales, but when there's a potential alternative, it doesn't work any more.  They should be doing everything they can to retain existing customers (ie, go with option #1 in my previous post).  By not doing that, and by forcing anyone who wants the new chip to buy a new board, they've made the barrier to entry equal for everyone, which means if someone wants to upgrade, they could go Intel, or they could go Ryzen too since the cost would be the "same" (they'd have to buy a new board anyway)

Exactly, the last thing Intel wants to do is alienate their customers right now.

 

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4 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

Please use hex codes for color as "white" is too vague for testing.

In the automotive world, white is white.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

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Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

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Just now, Drak3 said:

In the automotive world, white is white.

Only in TexasTM

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Just now, ARikozuM said:

Only in TexasTM

No, in Texas, fuck Texas.

Actually, in everywhere else, also fuck Texas.

 

Replace Texas with Intel, and we've got the past few threads regarding Intel.

 

Except Texas deserves it.

Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

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The blood is on your hands.

 

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2 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Well, they had two choices:

  • Make the new chips compatible with old boards and sell chips to both new buyers and those with existing Intel boards, or
  • Make the new chips not compatible with old boards, forcing anyone who wants a new chip to buy a new board, thus increasing revenue from sales of new boards, but decreasing revenue from fewer people being willing to buy the new chip.

I guess they took the second option, which means they figure they'll make more through additional board sales than they'll lose from alienating existing owners.

I guess we'll never know if that was a smart move or not but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'll play the devil's advocate and make up a potential reasoning for #2:

Let's say Intel's market research tells them that most users skip generations and upgrade in longer cycles. That would mean that people with pre-1151 systems form the majority of Coffee Lake potential buyers. Since they don't have an 1151 motherboard, their decisions are not influenced by "short-run" backwards compatibility. Certainly, they could still go for max cross-compatibility and just sell these people Z270 boards or whatever. However, locking things up gives them a tighter control on what gets sold and at what prices, not facing their own competition in the used market, nor being tied by previous decisions (for example, if they decide that prices should be lower in the new competitive scenario, they can still choose to prevent partial upgrades at the new low prices: you can benefit from low prices by upgrading mobo+cpu, but if you want to stick with either then just pay pre-Ryzen prices for it). Or something like that :P 

 

Now, given what Coffee Lake brings to the table, I could see less-than-a-year-old Z270 owners wanting to put a new CPU in it, or even Z170 owners. The question is how many of these type of buyers are there. On the other hand, I can't really see many SL or KL owners willing to keep the CPU but replace their motherboards with a Z370... I mean, what exactly are the benefits of this chipset anyway?

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Just now, SpaceGhostC2C said:

I'll play the devil's advocate and make up a potential reasoning for #2:

Let's say Intel's market research tells them that most users skip generations and upgrade in longer cycles. That would mean that people with pre-1151 systems form the majority of Coffee Lake potential buyers. Since they don't have an 1151 motherboard, their decisions are not influenced by "short-run" backwards compatibility. Certainly, they could still go for max cross-compatibility and just sell these people Z270 boards or whatever. However, locking things up gives them a tighter control on what gets sold and at what prices, not facing their own competition in the used market, nor being tied by previous decisions (for example, if they decide that prices should be lower in the new competitive scenario, they can still choose to prevent partial upgrades at the new low prices: you can benefit from low prices by upgrading mobo+cpu, but if you want to stick with either then just pay pre-Ryzen prices for it). Or something like that :P 

 

Now, given what Coffee Lake brings to the table, I could see less-than-a-year-old Z270 owners wanting to put a new CPU in it, or even Z170 owners. The question is how many of these type of buyers are there. On the other hand, I can't really see many SL or KL owners willing to keep the CPU but replace their motherboards with a Z370... I mean, what exactly are the benefits of this chipset anyway?

I already know the reasoning, and I stated it in my post :P  It's not like it's an inherently bad idea, it's just a business decision.  It's just that you would generally pick option 1 if you're in a competitive market, but option 2 if you're the only choice, and I think maybe they've been so used to being in the lead they forgot AMD is now a viable alternative.

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Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

I already know the reasoning, and I stated it in my post :P  It's not like it's an inherently bad idea, it's just a business decision.  It's just that you would generally pick option 1 if you're in a competitive market, but option 2 if you're the only choice, and I think maybe they've been so used to being in the lead they forgot AMD is now a viable alternative.

What I meant to say is that option 1 may not be the best even in a competitive market if the only buyers have old enough motherboards so that, whatever you do, they will have to buy a new one.

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Just now, SpaceGhostC2C said:

What I meant to say is that option 1 may not be the best even in a competitive market if the only buyers have old enough motherboards so that, whatever you do, they will have to buy a new one.

Yeah, true.

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6 hours ago, Nicnac said:

I'd prefer pro-profit. Anti-consumer has such a negative connotation...

no it would be anti-consumer. Apple is pro-profit 

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These are the same cucks that had an upgradeable processor (remember that bs?) and that charge you 300? for proper RAID support on X299.

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31 minutes ago, tmcclelland455 said:

These are the same cucks that had an upgradeable processor (remember that bs?) and that charge you 300? for proper RAID support on X299.

Most people are probably to the point where:

  1. They hope that their LGA1150/1151/X99 boards don't die (strewth my Z97 Sabertooth MKII is a zombie)
  2. They'll go with AM4 or TR4 for their next builds

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7 hours ago, MyName13 said:

Not to mention that motherboards have 3 year warranties so you'd actually put a new CPU on a 4 year motherboard and expect it to last 7-8 years, after the socket dies there won't be any motherboards on the market.Theres no reason to make sockets last longer when you have the best CPUs on the market.There's also a potential lack of (ddr4) ram (because of ddr5).

Yup. 

 

After a certain period of time, it's not worth it anymore to browse eBay for inflated prices on old hardware. My 2500k is still a perfectly usable chip, but the board selection is bad--especially if you wanna both overclock AND expect stability.

 

 

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Who in the world would buy a BRAND NEW motherboard for a last gen processor? Anyone with a KL processor already has a Z170/Z270 motherboard! And after CL comes out, theres no point in even buying KL anymore lol.

 

Everyone should be more concerned about compatibility with Z270. If Intel is able to make CL work with it, and decided not to.. that would be an obvious cash grab.

 

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense.. I don't think Intel would have any problem whatsoever with selling someone a brand new, expensive motherboard for a last gen cpu. If they were able to do it, I don't see why they wouldn't. I can understand if this conversation was about Z270 and CL, but its about Z370 and KL lol.

 

tldr; Who would replace their Z170/Z270 board with Z370 without upgrading the CPU? and why would intel stop some idiot from doing it and giving them money? (edit: same guy who bought that X299 i3)

  

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i hope some employee of a board manufacturer creates a bios update to support kaby lake chips and secretly release it. probably would be asrock.

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6 minutes ago, Javier Ewe said:

i hope some employee of a board manufacturer creates a bios update to support kaby lake chips and secretly release it. probably would be asrock.

They can't

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So people are upset that they can't buy a new Z370 board to go with their "old" 7700K?

 

I'm confused. Who out there thinks when a new generation of chips come out, "Gee, I'd better go upgrade my motherboard!"?

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12 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

So people are upset that they can't buy a new Z370 board to go with their "old" 7700K?

 

I'm confused. Who out there thinks when a new generation of chips come out, "Gee, I'd better go upgrade my motherboard!"?

This also means that what runs on the Z370 platform could also run on Z270, and more than likely Z170.

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6 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

This also means that what runs on the Z370 platform could also run on Z270, and more than likely Z170.

Ah, there's the piece I was missing. Thanks.

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6 hours ago, CTR640 said:

Intel is the electronic tumor.

Your post is just begging for this.

 

1 hour ago, zberry7 said:

Who in the world would buy a BRAND NEW motherboard for a last gen processor? Anyone with a KL processor already has a Z170/Z270 motherboard! And after CL comes out, theres no point in even buying KL anymore lol.

 

Everyone should be more concerned about compatibility with Z270. If Intel is able to make CL work with it, and decided not to.. that would be an obvious cash grab.

 

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense.. I don't think Intel would have any problem whatsoever with selling someone a brand new, expensive motherboard for a last gen cpu. If they were able to do it, I don't see why they wouldn't. I can understand if this conversation was about Z270 and CL, but its about Z370 and KL lol.

 

tldr; Who would replace their Z170/Z270 board with Z370 without upgrading the CPU? and why would intel stop some idiot from doing it and giving them money? (edit: same guy who bought that X299 i3)

What about those whose motherboards fail and need replaced.  Those with 6th and 7th gen processors have to choose between replacing with a same gen board (and limiting their future upgrade options) or getting a newer generation board and being forced to replace their functional CPU.

 

Some people act like there is absolutely no legitimate reason to ever upgrade the motherboard and not the CPU.  I can think of half a dozen reasons off the top of my head (and I've posted several of them previously).  You can argue all day long about how frequently those incidents may occur, but there are many valid reasons to want to keep your CPU and replace your motherboard.  And while I readily admit that I'm hardly the norm, I have done so in the past myself.

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1 hour ago, Jito463 said:

Your post is just begging for this.

 

What about those whose motherboards fail and need replaced.  Those with 6th and 7th gen processors have to choose between replacing with a same gen board (and limiting their future upgrade options) or getting a newer generation board and being forced to replace their functional CPU.

 

Some people act like there is absolutely no legitimate reason to ever upgrade the motherboard and not the CPU.  I can think of half a dozen reasons off the top of my head (and I've posted several of them previously).  You can argue all day long about how frequently those incidents may occur, but there are many valid reasons to want to keep your CPU and replace your motherboard.  And while I readily admit that I'm hardly the norm, I have done so in the past myself.

I don't need to upgrade my i7 4790K, however the Z97 SabertoothMK II I'm using it with has:

  • dead onboard audio (and it was sudden as well)
  • inability to remember BIOS settings & time when the computer is unplugged (regardless of the BIOS battery and position of the reset jumpers)
  • VRM that runs abnormally hot even with the 4790K underclocked to 3.8GHz (as hot as they did on my H87M Pro)

So I'm pretty much fucked when it dies fully.

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31 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

inability to remember BIOS settings & time when the computer is unplugged (regardless of the BIOS battery and position of the reset jumpers)

Swear my R4BE has the same issue, not that I've tested it all that well but I'm sure the battery in it is fine and I have swapped it at some point and it didn't fix the issue.

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8 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Swear my R4BE has the same issue, not that I've tested it all that well but I'm sure the battery in it is fine and I have swapped it at some point and it didn't fix the issue.

I've used the batteries from 2x laptops and 11 different motherboards (all of which keep their settings and time for months with the cells that aren't nearing the 20 year mark) in the blasted thing-so its definitely the motherboard at fault for me. With the way Asus motherboards have declined since their excellence in the 90's (their old boards are rock solid, well built and very forgiving of unsupported hardware) I wouldn't be surprised if your motherboard is having the same problem.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
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