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Master Disaster

Apple tells a judge their phones are only guaranteed to work for 365 days

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4 hours ago, JoostinOnline said:

That's what I mean.  But given that everything else has a 1 year warranty,  I don't understand why it's pathetic.

"Everyone else does it too" is no excuse.

A one year warranty is extremely short. Far too short for a 1000 dollar item from a company who prides themselves in saying they have very high-quality products.

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18 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

"Everyone else does it too" is no excuse.

A one year warranty is extremely short. Far too short for a 1000 dollar item from a company who prides themselves in saying they have very high-quality products.

This is very very true. Here in Australia if you pressure apple with the Australian Consumer Law, they crack. 

 

The law states that products should last for a reasonable amount of time, and for phones that is two years - as mobile phones are sold most commonly on two year contracts. 

 

There's similar in the EU IIRC


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9 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

This is very very true. Here in Australia if you pressure apple with the Australian Consumer Law, they crack. 

 

The law states that products should last for a reasonable amount of time, and for phones that is two years - as mobile phones are sold most commonly on two year contracts. 

 

There's similar in the EU IIRC

No such thing in the states however. Not exactly much we can do here beyond not buying, or buying the extended warranty.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
9 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

No such thing in the states however. Not exactly much we can do here beyond not buying, or buying the extended warranty.

And that is the crux of this issue, Apple Care. The more warranty they give you for free the less likely you are to spend more money on their extended warranty.


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I don't know who I care less about. Apple, or their customers who've realized that Apple products are garbage meant for moronic consumers who don't know better.


Computer's don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. By now your name and particulars have been fed into every laptop, desktop, mainframe and supermarket scanner that collectively make up the global information conspiracy, otherwise known as The Beast.

 

You just be careful. Computers have already beaten the Communists at chess. Next thing you know, they'll be beating humans.

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My brother had this issue with his iPhone 6. What did he do? He got a iPhone 7. smh...


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12 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

Do you remember the problem where holding an iPhone the "wrong" way would cover then antenna and cause issues with reception? Then there is the iPhone 6 flexing very easily (with the 6S having reinforcement to prevent the bending). And BTW, you hear about it because Apple products cost so damn much and are seen as flagship devices-and its kind of stupid for Apple to have flaws in their products that their competitors budget offerings don't have.

Yes, and I also remember how both the iPhone 4's 'antennagate' and the iPhone 6's flexing ended up being less serious in practice.  Not that no one ever ran into problems (see above), but there was a huge disjunction between what people feared (widespread failure, recalls, chaos) and what actually happened.  Also, it's kinda odd to bring this up when we just saw Samsung make a phone whose poor battery safety destroyed phones and even put people at risk.

 

You don't hear about problems with competitors' budget offerings because they don't push the limits of design; they can't afford to with low-cost devices sold on razor-thin profit margins.  The iPhone 4 was a radical break in phone design that people still remember, as imperfect as it was; I dare you to recall what a Galaxy J3 looks like just from memory.

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4 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

I don't know who I care less about. Apple, or their customers who've realized that Apple products are garbage meant for moronic consumers who don't know better.

I know who I care less about: people whose self-esteem is so tightly linked to the gadgets they own that they parrot false stereotypes about Apple users to feel better about themselves.

 

They're phones and computers.  Grow up.

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48 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Yes, and I also remember how both the iPhone 4's 'antennagate' and the iPhone 6's flexing ended up being less serious in practice.  Not that no one ever ran into problems (see above), but there was a huge disjunction between what people feared (widespread failure, recalls, chaos) and what actually happened.  Also, it's kinda odd to bring this up when we just saw Samsung make a phone whose poor battery safety destroyed phones and even put people at risk.

 

You don't hear about problems with competitors' budget offerings because they don't push the limits of design; they can't afford to with low-cost devices sold on razor-thin profit margins.  The iPhone 4 was a radical break in phone design that people still remember, as imperfect as it was; I dare you to recall what a Galaxy J3 looks like just from memory.

Notice how Samsung reacted though, and how they went well above what was reuired. And I know what a SJ3 looks like-my brother has one.

BTW, if Apple where pushing design they wouldn't have these flaws on their rather expensive phones (as it stands if I ever got an iPhone it would be a 5C)

  • having all bar 1 chip with underfill unlike previous models (and cheap phones)-thus leading to touchscreens not working
  • having weak points in the chassis while other phones just as thin don't have them
  • antenna that can be blocked when you hold your phone normally
  • lack of a headphone jack
  • lack of expandable storage
  • have to market features in phones 2 years ago as being a big deal (eg 3GB RAM, BIGlittle uad cores)

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On 9/14/2017 at 7:55 AM, Master Disaster said:

Nope, that's not clickbait....

 

So a bunch of iPhone users started a class action against the giant because their screens were failing

Apple is basically saying they only guarantee 365 days of use and this issue is not their problem

The plaintiffs legal team is arguing the device should be under protection for at least the term of a contract

So now Apples lawyers are arguing that the courts can't force them to rewrite their terms based on consumer expectations

http://www.news.com.au/technology/gadgets/mobile-phones/apple-argues-that-its-iphone-is-legally-not-guaranteed-to-last-for-more-than-a-year/news-story/5d195f47bf0525a7bdca7caa608f3dab

 

I genuinely don't know what to say here except Fuck Apple and their greedy corporate ways in every possible way.

 

I can't wait for the Apple brigade to try and defend this shit.

Personally I like Apple's products, but hate the company.  But, I agree that iPhones are guarantee to work for 365 days... thats why there is warranty.  The hardware inside of the iPhone is purposely not suppose to last.  Thats how the world works now and its all because we live in a world where everybody loves money which is a bad thing.

 

Regardless, Apple should improve the quality of the hardware of their products to achieve long lasting products, but to get this we as consumers would have to spend A LOT more on the iPhones.

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2 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

Notice how Samsung reacted though, and how they went well above what was reuired. And I know what a SJ3 looks like-my brother has one.

BTW, if Apple where pushing design they wouldn't have these flaws on their rather expensive phones (as it stands if I ever got an iPhone it would be a 5C)

  • having all bar 1 chip with underfill unlike previous models (and cheap phones)-thus leading to touchscreens not working
  • having weak points in the chassis while other phones just as thin don't have them
  • antenna that can be blocked when you hold your phone normally
  • lack of a headphone jack
  • lack of expandable storage
  • have to market features in phones 2 years ago as being a big deal (eg 3GB RAM, BIGlittle uad cores)

Wow, there's just a whole bunch of creative misinterpretations of reality here.

 

First: many other phones have antennas whose reception is dulled if you hold your phone in a reasonable way.  The problem isn't whether or not it happens -- it's the degree to which it happens.

 

Apple doesn't market the amount of RAM (go look, you won't find mention of it),  And it doesn't use BIGlittle cores, just the basic idea of high- and low-power cores.  One notable difference: the A11 can use the low-power cores at the same time as the faster ones, where BIGlittle is an either/or proposition.

 

Also, the absence of a headphone jack or expandable storage isn't a flaw, it's a design decision.  You don't have to like the decision, but it's not like Apple 'forgot' to put a headphone jack in the iPhone.  Also, if you see those as flaws, are you going to say that the Galaxy S8, Note 8, Pixel line, U11, G6, V30 and numerous other big-name phones are inherently flawed?  All of those either have non-expandable storage, omit a headphone jack or both.  And in many cases, they're pushing the limits of design... at least, considerably further than budget handsets.

 

When it comes to Samsung: it did the right thing, but it also misdiagnosed the problem with the first recall and didn't really have much of a choice with the second.  It was either kill the product or permanently tarnish the company's reputation.

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These topics get mind-bogglingly bad.

Not only is the topic made out to be heavily anti-Apple (which, fair, Apple could include a longer warranty all things considered, but you can't rail them for it when everyone else does similar or worse) but these people don't really understand why they're arguing, me included.


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2 hours ago, Commodus said:

First: many other phones have antennas whose reception is dulled if you hold your phone in a reasonable way.  The problem isn't whether or not it happens -- it's the degree to which it happens.

Another important aspect was in what way you needed to hold the phone to lose reception.

With the iPhone, it was holding the phone like a normal person. With other phones that Apple pointed the fingers towards screaming "look, it happens on them too!" like a little child you needed to hold them in unnatural ways, like covering the entire area where the camera module was with the palm of your hand.

 

2 hours ago, Commodus said:

Apple doesn't market the amount of RAM (go look, you won't find mention of it),  And it doesn't use BIGlittle cores, just the basic idea of high- and low-power cores.  One notable difference: the A11 can use the low-power cores at the same time as the faster ones, where BIGlittle is an either/or proposition.

You got things very wrong.

1) big.LITTLE is just the name ARM gave the concept of mixing big and small cores. This is what Apple is doing.

2) You can use all cores with big.LITTLE. In fact, there has only been a single chip that I am aware of that used the cluster switching mechanic you described, and that was the Exynos 5410. All other big.LITTLE chips since then that I know of have been able to schedule to all cores at the same time with one exception. That exception being...

3) Apple's current chip (A10) is cluster migration. You can NOT mix using little and big cores. It's either all big cores, or all small cores. The A11 is rumored to change this however and finally catch up with Android.

 

So you got it the other way around.

 

 

2 hours ago, Commodus said:

 Also, if you see those as flaws, are you going to say that the Galaxy S8, Note 8, Pixel line, U11, G6, V30 and numerous other big-name phones are inherently flawed?  All of those either have non-expandable storage, omit a headphone jack or both.

 

Ehm... No?

The S8, Note 8, G6 and V30 all have both expanadble storage as well as a headphone jack.

Four of the six handsets you mentioned have BOTH of the features you claimed they don't have.

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2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Another important aspect was in what way you needed to hold the phone to lose reception.

With the iPhone, it was holding the phone like a normal person. With other phones that Apple pointed the fingers towards screaming "look, it happens on them too!" like a little child you needed to hold them in unnatural ways, like covering the entire area where the camera module was with the palm of your hand.

 

You got things very wrong.

1) big.LITTLE is just the name ARM gave the concept of mixing big and small cores. This is what Apple is doing.

2) You can use all cores with big.LITTLE. In fact, there has only been a single chip that I am aware of that used the cluster switching mechanic you described, and that was the Exynos 5410. All other big.LITTLE chips since then that I know of have been able to schedule to all cores at the same time with one exception. That exception being...

3) Apple's current chip (A10) is cluster migration. You can NOT mix using little and big cores. It's either all big cores, or all small cores. The A11 is rumored to change this however and finally catch up with Android.

 

So you got it the other way around.

 

 

Ehm... No?

The S8, Note 8, G6 and V30 all have both expanadble storage as well as a headphone jack.

Four of the six handsets you mentioned have BOTH of the features you claimed they don't have.

Ugh.  I did botch some of that (on the last part: I was thinking of removable batteries).  Sorry.  Don't think Apple is advertising the simultaneous use of high- and low-power cores, but still...

 

On the first part, though: there are actually quite a few phones, even now, where holding the phone normally skews reception to a degree.  Apple did get overdramatic when trying to prove that other phones had reception problems, but then there were also instances where other phones really did have similar problems, if due to different design issues.  And it is true that the iPhone 4's reception flaws were distorted beyond all belief.  People acted as if the iPhone 4 was effectively a brick, that Apple might have to recall it... er, no.  Really, it meant that a modest number of people who lived in fringe network coverage, didn't use a case and held their phone a certain way (albeit a common way) might have problems.  Apple sold lots of iPhone 4 units and the world moved on.

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3 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Don't think Apple is advertising the simultaneous use of high- and low-power cores, but still...

They haven't officially said it, but each core is individually addressed in the new version of iOS for A11 chips, so that's a pretty strong indicator that it will be able to mix cores.

 

2 minutes ago, Commodus said:

And it is true that the iPhone 4's reception flaws were distorted beyond all belief.  People acted as if the iPhone 4 was effectively a brick, that Apple might have to recall it... er, no.

Well it didn't help that Steve Jobs himself told customers "just avoid holding it in that way", when they were holding it exactly like the commercials held it.

The issue got a bit overblown but what can you expect when you had a bunch of people flat out denying it, another bunch of people saying it was no different than other phones (even though it totally was) and even Steve Jobs himself adding fuel to the fire by blaming the users?

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On 9/18/2017 at 9:31 AM, Commodus said:

I know who I care less about: people whose self-esteem is so tightly linked to the gadgets they own that they parrot false stereotypes about Apple users to feel better about themselves.

 

They're phones and computers.  Grow up.

Considering I'm the underpaid person who has to fix their mess, yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and call them morons. When they hand you a laptop that has been run over by a truck, thrown from the top story of a parking garage, or left in a puddle of mud in front of a school (and this is not a joke, or hyperbole) and ask you if you can fix it, you get the right to think of them as morons.


Computer's don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. By now your name and particulars have been fed into every laptop, desktop, mainframe and supermarket scanner that collectively make up the global information conspiracy, otherwise known as The Beast.

 

You just be careful. Computers have already beaten the Communists at chess. Next thing you know, they'll be beating humans.

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14 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Considering I'm the underpaid person who has to fix their mess, yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and call them morons. When they hand you a laptop that has been run over by a truck, thrown from the top story of a parking garage, or left in a puddle of mud in front of a school (and this is not a joke, or hyperbole) and ask you if you can fix it, you get the right to think of them as morons.

People who do that aren't specific to Apple, and you know it.

 

If you genuinely believe that most Apple product buyers are morons but most Windows/Android buyers somehow aren't... well, that's pretty sad, actually.  Thankfully, you'll probably mature out of that view in time.

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47 minutes ago, Commodus said:

People who do that aren't specific to Apple, and you know it.

 

If you genuinely believe that most Apple product buyers are morons but most Windows/Android buyers somehow aren't... well, that's pretty sad, actually.  Thankfully, you'll probably mature out of that view in time.

Ok yes I should have clarified that that isn't exclusive to Apple users.


Computer's don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. By now your name and particulars have been fed into every laptop, desktop, mainframe and supermarket scanner that collectively make up the global information conspiracy, otherwise known as The Beast.

 

You just be careful. Computers have already beaten the Communists at chess. Next thing you know, they'll be beating humans.

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Just now, Trik'Stari said:

Ok yes I should have clarified that that isn't exclusive to Apple users.

Then why the grief with Apple users specifically?  There are plenty of people who buy iPhones, iPads and Macs knowing full well what they're getting and actually preferring it to what's on the Android/Windows side.  For example, I have an iMac because it actually helps my workflow, because it's an elegant, unintrusive design and because it's a much better value than a Windows PC if you like the thought of a 5K display.  I buy iPhones because I value performance, consistent camera quality, tight integration with Macs, timely OS updates and significant support after the first year on the market.

 

Obviously, some people will buy iPhones and iPads (less so Macs) without thinking much about it, but so do the many, many people who just wander into Best Buy and buy whatever Dell or HP system is on sale that week... and so do the many people who buy the latest Samsung phone because that's what the carrier sales clerk was told to promote.  The truth is that there will always be people that don't particularly care or know much about what they're buying, but I don't think Apple or any other large phone/PC maker is trying to exploit that ignorance.

 

Don't get me wrong, they're all trying to seduce you in one way or another, but I see Apple's design choices as a matter of different priorities.  Rather than chase the specs-are-all-that-matter camp, it's going after ease of use, design, and practical performance differences (its early adoption of SSDs is an example of this).

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1 hour ago, Commodus said:

Then why the grief with Apple users specifically?  There are plenty of people who buy iPhones, iPads and Macs knowing full well what they're getting and actually preferring it to what's on the Android/Windows side.  For example, I have an iMac because it actually helps my workflow, because it's an elegant, unintrusive design and because it's a much better value than a Windows PC if you like the thought of a 5K display.  I buy iPhones because I value performance, consistent camera quality, tight integration with Macs, timely OS updates and significant support after the first year on the market.

 

Obviously, some people will buy iPhones and iPads (less so Macs) without thinking much about it, but so do the many, many people who just wander into Best Buy and buy whatever Dell or HP system is on sale that week... and so do the many people who buy the latest Samsung phone because that's what the carrier sales clerk was told to promote.  The truth is that there will always be people that don't particularly care or know much about what they're buying, but I don't think Apple or any other large phone/PC maker is trying to exploit that ignorance.

 

Don't get me wrong, they're all trying to seduce you in one way or another, but I see Apple's design choices as a matter of different priorities.  Rather than chase the specs-are-all-that-matter camp, it's going after ease of use, design, and practical performance differences (its early adoption of SSDs is an example of this).

All I can say is that I've used their products and I don't see them as easy to use, practical, or well designed. The unnecessary removal of the headphone jack is fairly good evidence of all three of those things. Not to mention the "it only lasts for a year" claims by Apple.

 

That's all I got really. I just think their products are over priced and over marketed and not nearly good enough to justify the cost of the products or their popularity, which is why I said, "your average user is a moron". They think it's easy to use and well designed, but that doesn't make it true.

 

Edit: To clarify, I'm not insulting Apples engineers when I say the products are badly designed. I'm saying what they focus on with the design is stupid. I have no doubt their engineers are very intelligent people. They just sacrifice far too much function for form


Computer's don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. By now your name and particulars have been fed into every laptop, desktop, mainframe and supermarket scanner that collectively make up the global information conspiracy, otherwise known as The Beast.

 

You just be careful. Computers have already beaten the Communists at chess. Next thing you know, they'll be beating humans.

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On ‎14‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 1:15 PM, SpaceGhostC2C said:

A year doesn't seem like a long warranty, so much for taking pride in the quality of your product... In the EU, consumer electronics cannot offer less than two years unless sold as refurbished or similar. 

most phones here in the UK, yup we are still in the eu, come with one years warranty, in fact most electronic devices do.

 

the only phone I have had in the last decade that has more than one year is the phone I'm writing this on. The Lumia 950. 


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1 hour ago, vorticalbox said:

most phones here in the UK, yup we are still in the eu, come with one years warranty, in fact most electronic devices do.

What manufacturers state in the paper you get doesn't override the law. The UK is still part of the EU, and therefore EU directives apply. And the relevant EU directive states 2 years minimum warranty for consumer goods.

The potential issue in any country is whether the EU directives got translated into the local legislation, or whether you will have to fight in court for a direct application of the directive itself. Until 2015, the relevant UK norm was the Sales of Goods Act, which covered some of the issues in the directive, but not necessary all of them, leading to people trying to enforce the EU directive on their own. Since then, you have the Consumer Rights Act, which I don't know if finally translated the EU directive in full to UK law, making it directly applicable, or it's still a matter of credibly threatening to enforce it in court.

 

Either way, at the very least until Brexit takes place, the warranty in the UK, as part of the EU, is 2 years minimum.

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20 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

All I can say is that I've used their products and I don't see them as easy to use, practical, or well designed. The unnecessary removal of the headphone jack is fairly good evidence of all three of those things. Not to mention the "it only lasts for a year" claims by Apple.

 

That's all I got really. I just think their products are over priced and over marketed and not nearly good enough to justify the cost of the products or their popularity, which is why I said, "your average user is a moron". They think it's easy to use and well designed, but that doesn't make it true.

 

Edit: To clarify, I'm not insulting Apples engineers when I say the products are badly designed. I'm saying what they focus on with the design is stupid. I have no doubt their engineers are very intelligent people. They just sacrifice far too much function for form

I personally find Mac OS and iOS easier to use than Windows and Android, and I enjoy the experience so much more so that I'm willing to pay more to get both a Mac and an iPhone -- although historically Apple has cost me less money in the long run since I've used all their products for noticeably longer.

 

And again, the "only lasts a year" claim isn't any different than the vast majority of competitors in the smartphone space. 

19 hours ago, Fahim Foysal said:

Classic all but one or two smartphone manufacturers.

FTFY


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People just don't look after their phones anymore. I am still using my iPhone 6 from 2014. Yeah, it's had the screen replaced a few times, but that's down to my negligence. It would be exactly the same if I dropped a Samsung phone. 

 

I still use my iMac from 2012. I've upgraded the RAM and installed an SSD but that cost me no where near the money for a new Mac and none of that money went to Apple. 

 

Regarding the warrant, most of  the items that I sell at my work come with 12 months warranty. We can only guarantee that they're going to work for 12 months, if anything happens to it after that, the customer will have to pay for the repairs.

 

It's just people that hate Apple want to slate them as much as they can. 

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