Advice On Web Development Education

[78jimm]

History about me: After high school i got into a very good university to study electrical engineering, but just a couple months into the first semester i developed epilepsy. It and side effects from its medication completely ruined my life. My memory suffered and I couldn't do basic math calculations. I failed every single course. So i took a break from studying and after a year of no significant improvement in health I decided to study something with less math and went with Environmental Sciences. After four semesters depression took over, started failing everything again. It has been six years since it all began and i want to continue my education.  

 

Since a lot of programmers come to this forum I thought i'd ask this here. I'm thinking of getting into web development. I have already learnt the basics of HTML and CSS from the internet (Codecademy and others) and i am getting the hang of it. I no longer want to get a full 4 years degree. So i wanted to know if a short 2-6 month course that teaches html, css, php, java script is good enough  or should i consider a 2 year associates degree that teaches a little more.

Thank you.

[vorticalbox]

6 minutes ago, 78jimm said:

History about me: After high school i got into a very good university to study electrical engineering, but just a couple months into the first semester i developed epilepsy. It and side effects from its medication completely ruined my life. My memory suffered and I couldn't do basic math calculations. I failed every single course. So i took a break from studying and after a year of no significant improvement in health I decided to study something with less math and went with Environmental Sciences. After four semesters depression took over, started failing everything again. It has been six years since it all began and i want to continue my education.  

 

Since a lot of programmers come to this forum I thought i'd ask this here. I'm thinking of getting into web development. I have already learnt the basics of HTML and CSS from the internet (Codecademy and others) and i am getting the hang of it. I no longer want to get a full 4 years degree. So i wanted to know if a short 2-6 month course that teaches html, css, php, java script is good enough  or should i consider a 2 year associates degree that teaches a little more.

Thank you.

if you want degree there is no need, so long as you can prove your knowledge to an employer that is what counts.

 

If you know HTML and CSS it's time to pick where you want to go front end or back end. 

 

For the front end, you'll want to start with javascript then move into frameworks such as angular js and back the back end you can either go the PHP route or node.js.

 

This isn't a full list of what you can do, you can use Python for the back end or the .net framework. So start looking into the technologies used in each area.

[SCHISCHKA]

front end programming, pay sucks. lots of competition. anyone can do it as it is at the bottom end of programming. you do need to be good at maths and have a solid memory for any programming. Theres plenty of free online courses. www.w3schools.com is the best, combine this with wikipedia and you will not need to go to school. You will only need to go to school to learn design.

[78jimm]

11 minutes ago, SCHISCHKA said:

front end programming, pay sucks. lots of competition. anyone can do it as it is at the bottom end of programming. you do need to be good at maths and have a solid memory for any programming. Theres plenty of free online courses. www.w3schools.com is the best, combine this with wikipedia and you will not need to go to school. You will only need to go to school to learn design.

Thank you for replying so fast.

If I go the back end way, do i still need to learn java script? And is SQL necessary?

[vorticalbox]

16 minutes ago, SCHISCHKA said:

front end programming, pay sucks. lots of competition. anyone can do it as it is at the bottom end of programming

here in the uk, i've seen senior front end jobs advertising £40,000 a year and up hardly "sucks" in terms on pay. Also, not anyone can do I am rubbish at designing and making things look good.

[vorticalbox]

4 minutes ago, 78jimm said:

Thank you for replying so fast.

If I go the back end way, do i still need to learn java script? And is SQL necessary?

 

no and yes. Most websites will use some sort of database.

[SCHISCHKA]

8 minutes ago, 78jimm said:

Thank you for replying so fast.

If I go the back end way, do i still need to learn java script? And is SQL necessary?

yes. you will need to read other people's javascript, and you will need javascript to test your own back end work.

SQL is essential.

5 minutes ago, vorticalbox said:

here in the uk, i've seen senior front end jobs advertising £40,000 a year and up hardly "sucks" in terms on pay. Also, not anyone can do I am rubbish at designing and making things look good.

it depends if you can code and design then you get that kind of money, at a good agency, after a number of years, and you are very good. if you just design or just code then you dont get well paid. Compare senior positions in other industries and front end development does not look so good.

 

[78jimm]

3 minutes ago, vorticalbox said:

 

no and yes. Most websites will use some sort of database.

Essential languages for front end are html, css, java script? I think i will learn these online for now, maybe if i end being any good at them i will join a short course for something more advanced.

[vorticalbox]

3 minutes ago, 78jimm said:

Essential languages for front end are html, css, java script? I think i will learn these online for now, maybe if i end being any good at them i will join a short course for something more advanced.

took me a few years to decide what language I really loved and wanted to use. I first started as you are on HTML, CSS and PHP then moved on to c# now I basically use python exclusively 

[78jimm]

How do i determine what i might be better for, front end or back end?

[78jimm]

Just now, 78jimm said:

How do i determine what i might be better for, front end or back end?

Can i before learning enough?

[Dat Guy]

2 hours ago, vorticalbox said:

For the front end, you'll want to start with javascript then move into frameworks such as angular js and back the back end you can either go the PHP route or node.js.

No, you won't, since you could also start with Common Lisp or the superb C. The former can also handle the front-end.

Avoid JavaScript unless absolutely required.

 

[78jimm]

4 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

No, you won't, since you could also start with Common Lisp or the superb C. The former can also handle the front-end.

Avoid JavaScript unless absolutely required.

 

No one seems to agree on anything.

[vorticalbox]

20 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

No, you won't, since you could also start with Common Lisp or the superb C. The former can also handle the front-end.

Avoid JavaScript unless absolutely required.

 

I did say not a total list. Mostly places seem to use frameworks like angular

14 minutes ago, 78jimm said:

No one seems to agree on anything.

welcome to the internet

[Dat Guy]

Most places suck. 

[78jimm]

I don't mean to appear too needy but could everyone provide a list of languages in order which i should learn them or in what way approach web development as a self learner.

[Dat Guy]

HTML is required and CSS is highly recommended, so you can, at least, build and style websites on your own. The language you generate your HTML in is actually not really relevant afterwards. Even COBOL would work.

 

That said: My recommendations (because of my own experiences) are still Common Lisp and C.  

[78jimm]

8 hours ago, Dat Guy said:

HTML is required and CSS is highly recommended, so you can, at least, build and style websites on your own. The language you generate your HTML in is actually not really relevant afterwards. Even COBOL would work.

 

That said: My recommendations (because of my own experiences) are still Common Lisp and C.  

Thank you! Is C the one that is the earlier version of C++?

[Dat Guy]

C is the progenitor of C++, but it is still being actively standardized. 

[Cruorzy]

If you really want to see which languages are important find job offerings where they list them. In my area there are alot that require PHP, SQL and Javascript even Linux knowledge. Don't agree staring with Common Lisp or superb C like Dat Guy said, i've seen him recommending it often and it might be a good start into programming/coding (I don't know if it is).

 

But i've never seen anyone using it, also his advice on avoiding it is terrible. Because you don't certain languages for good or bad reasons you can't just ignore them.

Javascript is still a big thing many people use it and like a said many Jobs also want that you know you basic Javascript. Atleast be a bit aware about how to use it so you can easly step into it if you NEED to.

 

People will NOT ever agree on stuff, asking what to learn here and wanting a SPECIFIC answer is totally not going to happen (sorry :))

 

It is important just to start making something, make sure you know what to do and this means.

You want to learn coding/programming, don't learn a specific language

 

Someone argued the other day his school was 'better' because he learned 4 different languages compared to a friend he has that learned only 1 or 2.

His mind was set on learning languages instead of learning programming, he thought the Syntax was the most important thing to learn.

This is wrong, start learning programming and questions tied to a specific languages (Like syntax/functions) are quickly found on the mighty google.

 

Personally :

 

I would say going HTML, CSS, PHP, Javascript is fine for now.

Just start already man.

 

You can even pick "better" languages like C / Golang.

 

As long you JUST start.

 

Can you lose a few bucks? try Lynda.com i've started there and i loved just to sit back and watch for a while and then implement it in a project.

You will start crappy like everyone did, and depending on the kind of person you are you will grow slowly in writing better code.

Because it is all about writing good and clean code.

[78jimm]

5 minutes ago, Cruorzy said:

If you really want to see which languages are important find job offerings where they list them. In my area there are alot that require PHP, SQL and Javascript even Linux knowledge. Don't agree staring with Common Lisp or superb C like Dat Guy said, i've seen him recommending it often and it might be a good start into programming/coding (I don't know if it is).

 

But i've never seen anyone using it, also his advice on avoiding it is terrible. Because you don't certain languages for good or bad reasons you can't just ignore them.

Javascript is still a big thing many people use it and like a said many Jobs also want that you know you basic Javascript. Atleast be a bit aware about how to use it so you can easly step into it if you NEED to.

 

People will NOT ever agree on stuff, asking what to learn here and wanting a SPECIFIC answer is totally not going to happen (sorry :))

 

It is important just to start making something, make sure you know what to do and this means.

You want to learn coding/programming, don't learn a specific language

 

Someone argued the other day his school was 'better' because he learned 4 different languages compared to a friend he has that learned only 1 or 2.

His mind was set on learning languages instead of learning programming, he thought the Syntax was the most important thing to learn.

This is wrong, start learning programming and questions tied to a specific languages (Like syntax/functions) are quickly found on the mighty google.

 

Personally :

 

I would say going HTML, CSS, PHP, Javascript is fine for now.

Just start already man.

 

You can even pick "better" languages like C / Golang.

 

As long you JUST start.

 

Can you lose a few bucks? try Lynda.com i've started there and i loved just to sit back and watch for a while and then implement it in a project.

You will start crappy like everyone did, and depending on the kind of person you are you will grow slowly in writing better code.

Because it is all about writing good and clean code.

Thank you for your advice. Most jobs in my area require PHP, SQL and Javascript. But almost all of them require a 4-year degree.

[Cruorzy]

12 minutes ago, 78jimm said:

Thank you for your advice. Most jobs in my area require PHP, SQL and Javascript. But almost all of them require a 4-year degree.

Alot of those jobs in my area require a specific type of education which i don't have. But that ain't stopping me for alteast trying.

(just watch till 5:25)

I believe this is kind of true, maybe not at all company's but still.

 

It might take sometime to get the knowledge you need to actually look for jobs so don't start to much thinking about that, you even still have to figure out if programming is actually something you like.

 

A thing what can boost you alot is..

You will learn there are 2 main ways of writing code, called Object Oriented and Procedural Programming.

 

Like every newb is started Procedural Programming and this is not bad. But the standard is Object Oriented.

Try not to stick to long in Procedural Programming, that is what I did and lost a lot of time because of it.

 

There is way more to learn when it comes to Objects in languages.

[madknight3]

26 minutes ago, 78jimm said:

But almost all of them require a 4-year degree.

Apply anyway. Worst case, you don't get the job (which you wouldn't if you didn't apply anyway) and you may end up with some extra interview experience. I'm sure you can find plenty of specific advice online for how to job hunt without a degree too.

 

You can cover a lot of CS material on your own though. Check out OSSU. You can start with an Intro to Computer Science course (like Harvard's CS50 which covers a mixture of C, Python, SQL, and JavaScript plus CSS and HTML) and go on from there.

 

Web development can still be your priority but the additional knowledge can help.