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Muffinmaddness

Pewdiepie uses racial slur on livestream of PUBG, Firewatch dev files DMCA

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It's refreshing to read sensible comments here, on another big forum they call for him to jailed and stuff like that in a thread with over 120 pages..


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This is moral harassment.


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3 hours ago, The Benjamins said:

if people want that word to be taboo, then all variations should not be used by anyone. but currently the use of nigga is in pop culture.

I'm outright triggered by this

If people want some word to be taboo they can go fuck themselves, it doesnt matter if it was used to opress, undermind or whatever. Its a word, the nucleus of though, banning words is beyond ussr level of authoritarism, its downright telling people how to think

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1 minute ago, hobobobo said:

I'm outright triggered by this

If people want some word to be taboo they can go fuck themselves, it doesnt matter if it was used to opress, undermind or whatever. Its a word, the nucleus of though, banning words is beyond ussr level of authoritarism, its downright telling people how to think

I don't care to much either way, but I think they should pick a side, not both.

I also purposely didn't say banned, I don't think words should be banned. but making it taboo as in not acceptable for standard media is fine.


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Sean vanaman looks like the type of guy who heads the team who actually made the game, not the type of guy who could do it


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Just now, The Benjamins said:

I don't care to much either way, but I think they should pick a side, not both.

I also purposely didn't say banned, I don't think words should be banned. but making it taboo as in not acceptable for standard media is fine.

This way nothing to disagree with. Just jumped from taboo to ban since the defenition of taboo kinda implies a ban and the mob mentality, or at least the image presented on the web, is in such a way that they are not taboos, they are downright considered to be capital offense, since, you know, it used to be inconsievable to hear shit piss fuck on the tele, then they moved to beeps, now its just ok.

 

Its more of a question of an enviroment, you cant mandate the word to be in a bad taste but you can push the discurs towards embracing the word, understanding it to the core and just using it appropriatly. Its the same way with сука, блять, хуй, пизда and a couple of other words in russian, its a str8 sign of a gopnik if a person overuses them to no end, but at the same time they provide with a way to put a strong emphasis, bind your emotional vision of a situation to the sentance and generally makes the language richer. Afaic, if you want to call somebody you dont like a nigger instead of an asshole or wanker or whatever, you should be able to, disregarding the colour of their skin.

 

 

I think i went a bit overboard

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The PUBG Steam reviews are filled with people taking issue with the PUBG developer's intervention and action against players for absurd reasons. Apparently, the PUBG dev has the misguided impression that making a piece of software makes you a god over everybody who uses that software.

 

It sounds to me like this Sean Vanaman lacks reasonable discretion and might have a personality disorder.

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5 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

The PUBG Steam reviews are filled with people taking issue with the PUBG developer's intervention and action against players for absurd reasons. Apparently, the PUBG dev has the misguided impression that making a piece of software makes you a god over everybody who uses that software.

 

It sounds to me like this Sean Vanaman has lacks reasonable discretion and might have a personality disorder.

This thread is not about the PUBG devs, just that PDP was playing PUBG when he used the N-word, and another dev DMCA the videos of PDP reviewing their game.


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Words only have the power that we give them.

 

I personally think it's wrong for a white guy to use such a word, but I think as this particular word has been taken mainstream by the black music scene for a while now that it'll inevitably be seen as a 'cool' word to use by kids/young men of all creeds and colours. I'm not saying it's right, but it's a factor in my eyes (43 y/o white guy here).

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3 hours ago, one-sixty said:

I swear I dont know why people make this such a big deal, he said somthing ok, if you didnt like it just ignore it its not a big deal, it was on accident to.

No dude, that's how bullying and other attacks fly under the radar. The fact is, words can have harmful effect, and when used specifically for harm you can equate harmful words to harmful action.

 

As far as it being "by accident", how can you tell?


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A Twitter friend with expertise in discrimination debates pointed something out: it's funny how so many people are willing to acknowledge that racism exists, but the moment you point to an example of it, they bend over backwards to say that it doesn't really count.

 

PewDiePie quickly apologized, and that's good; I'm sure he's nicer than that outburst suggested.  However, that's not really the point.  The issue is that racism is this infectious, pervasive thing that can affect otherwise well-meaning people.  It's that readiness to use racial slurs in the heat of the moment (even as a joke), and then telling black people that they shouldn't find it offensive.  It's tensing up when you cross paths with a black man on the street, or rolling up your windows when you drive through a predominantly black neighborhood.  And if you don't check that behavior, especially with public figures like PewDiePie, it never really goes away -- you're basically arguing that a casual level of racism is okay.

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3 hours ago, hobobobo said:

I'm outright triggered by this

If people want some word to be taboo they can go fuck themselves, it doesnt matter if it was used to opress, undermind or whatever. Its a word, the nucleus of though, banning words is beyond ussr level of authoritarism, its downright telling people how to think

You see, there's a difference between prosecuting you for using a word and not wanting to be around you if you use it. You are allowed to say whatever you want, just don't be surprised if people leave.

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

Because as soon as he realizes what he said, he apologizes and rephrases it.

That's typically a big sign that it was not on purpose.

To be honest I don't know which is worse - saying it as a one off trying to be funny or using it on a daily basis in his non-internet interactions. Sure, he apologised for saying it on stream (which is good) but if he has the word so ready it's obvious that he does use it quite often in his everyday life.


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10 hours ago, Sauron said:

They really don't, there are fair use laws that allow the use of copyrighted work in transformative products (such as a commentary/gameplay video) without the holder's permission. Watching PDP play a game is hardly the same as playing it yourself - unless the game requires almost no user interaction, in which case it's better classified as a movie as far as I'm concerned.

Fair use is a defense not a right.   The game play is not transformative, PDP makes money from it and he has more than one video (meaning it is not a review or criticism), it fails the fair use defense criteria on several points.

 

Also, many people don;t realise this, but having some form of contract/license in place actually negate most fair use, which in this case happened, they explicitly gave him permission to play t he game and monetize it,  they also have the right to take that permission away when circumstances change and they no longer want to be associated with him.

 

 

6 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Ok I think we've exhausted the "OMG damn PC culture!" side quite enough. Can we instead just focus on the DMCA thing?

But, my right to be offended at someone else being offended is offensive.  Why do people think that wanting to do something about people who offend you is somehow wrong, but taking offense when they do is not?

 

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

On the first page we have at least one person saying they think the actions of the developers are fair, and that this is not abusing the DMCA.

 

You might want to check DMCA law in the US, they are not abusing it, whether you think it's fair or not does not change the law.  Fair use (as I have already explained) has criteria and is a defense, not a guaranteed right.   In this specific case it has not been tried in a court (as far as I know the closest is Nintendo who's beef was purely money I think), however in this specific case PDP's use fails on 3 counts, it is not transformative, it is monetized and he had permission to use it until he used words Sean disagreed with (prior contract/license agreement).    

 

 

It is really important that people work out the difference between copyright law and personal opinion,  regardless of whether people think he is a dick or his right to decide who his product is associated with is irrelevant,  DMCA law is not being abused even if Sean is doing it only out of childish spite. 

 

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/what-is-fair-use/

 

Quote

In its most general sense, a fair use is any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and “transformative” purpose, such as to comment upon, criticize, or parody a copyrighted work. Such uses can be done without permission from the copyright owner. In other words, fair use is a defense against a claim of copyright infringement

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

 

I'm not going to copy out great swaths of text, it's all in there and all referenced to previous cases and precedents that have been set.


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I think their best bet would be to refuse to allow PDP to stream any more of their games in future with an explicit mention of streamers known to have used derogatory terms that do not fit their terms of service but then they would find themselves constantly battling this with people nit picking and reporting every other user who said something detestable live on stream.

 

I think the sentiment is good. The execution is poor. PDP is a complete ass either way and he needs to grow the f**k up if he is going to be such a huge star to so many fans following in his footsteps. YT streamers like PDP represent a very different kind of relatable celebrity than most others due to such frequent and relatively intimate connections over others that they really can have a strong socialising effect on others. TLDR - he needs to watch his mouth when speaking publicly to so many impressionable viewers. If he was a smalltimer he would probably find himself struck from or severely warned by streaming sites/Youtube. 

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10 minutes ago, Sauron said:

You see, there's a difference between prosecuting you for using a word and not wanting to be around you if you use it. You are allowed to say whatever you want, just don't be surprised if people leave.

Exactly.  Expressing a viewpoint has consequences.  If people hear/read the things you say, and their reaction is "wow, what an asshole, I'd rather not associate or generally deal with this person anymore", you're not being oppressed at all.  You're legally well within your rights, and your rights aren't being stepped on in any way.  It's just people seeing you being an asshole and not wanting to deal with you.  If your employer sees/hears/reads some of the things you say, and they don't like it, and they decide "yeah, I'd rather not have this person on my payroll representing my business anymore" and shitcan you, your rights are not being stepped on in any way.


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29 minutes ago, Phate.exe said:

Exactly.  Expressing a viewpoint has consequences.  If people hear/read the things you say, and their reaction is "wow, what an asshole, I'd rather not associate or generally deal with this person anymore", you're not being oppressed at all.  You're legally well within your rights, and your rights aren't being stepped on in any way.  It's just people seeing you being an asshole and not wanting to deal with you.  If your employer sees/hears/reads some of the things you say, and they don't like it, and they decide "yeah, I'd rather not have this person on my payroll representing my business anymore" and shitcan you, your rights are not being stepped on in any way.

True, but personally I think the bigger issue here is whether or not the DMCA claims are warranted. I'm all for discouraging shitty behavior in society, but I'm wary of the temptation to accept when a despicable person's rights might be violated (like if a neo-nazi gets sucker punched at a rally, to cite a more extreme example)

 

Not saying it's obvious whether PDP's rights are being violated here - Leonard French and Ryan Morrison appear to have differing opinions on the legitimacy of Vanaman's DMCA claims so I get the impression this is a bit of a gray area. 

 

I'm certainly not a lawyer (or a LPer), but I'm interested to see how this plays out. (hur hur)

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6 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

I really don't get why this specific word is so offensive when f*ggot is just fine. Both are equally offensive TBH. -_-

It means a bundle of sticks in other places and as someone who is gay myself, I don't really consider it that offensive but then again I'm not like those stereotype propagators.


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I think it's a funny situation.
Doesn't change my opinion of the guy at all.

He's not funny all the time but definitely has his moments.
 


I make bad life decisions.

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2 minutes ago, Scionyde said:

True, but personally I think the bigger issue here is whether or not the DMCA claims are warranted.

 

The issue here is people are offended at the idea that copyright owners have opinions too and (heaven forbid) actually have some legal rights over their own material.

 

 

As far as I can tell from everything I have read, there is no requirement in law for a copyright owner to have a reason for filing a claim,  The law states it is their material and they alone decide who uses it based on their own personal motivations.     It doesn't even matter if the only reason is that they just don't like you.

 

 


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Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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1 minute ago, wcreek said:

It means a bundle of sticks in other places and as someone who is gay myself, I don't really consider it that offensive but then again I'm not like those stereotype propagators.

I have a gay friend who once told me "you know (name), there's a difference between gays and f@ggots" and told me about how he sees the difference between the two. (Basically the latter being the flamboyant people who let it consume their identity instead of just being a part of them).
plz no ban mods.


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Oh i'm offended!!! Oh no!!!! Someone help!!!!

 

 

 

Oh man the salt is real :P If your offended, well, that sucks to be you. Its part of life and will happen weather or not you want it to. Its a game guys. People are going to swear and curse at it no matter how well they do. Its the internet. What else do you expect?!!!! Anywhere where a large group of people gather with different view points and opinions has the possibility to become toxic. Too bad. Get over it. Its life.


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