Intel announces 8th gen Kaby Lake refresh for mobile. Desktop in fall

[porina]

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In our pre-briefings, Intel only mentioned Coffee Lake in the context of the fact that today’s launch is not Coffee Lake. Because media were expecting this to be Coffee Lake (and expecting it to be a desktop processor launch), the question ‘is this Coffee Lake’ was actually asked several times, and the answer had to be repeated. These four new CPUs are still Kaby Lake CPUs built on the same 14+ technology, with minor updates, and bringing quad cores to 15W.

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So when is Coffee Lake on 14++ (or Cannon Lake) coming? Intel only stated that other members of the 8th Generation family (which contains Kaby Lake Refresh, Coffee Lake and Cannon Lake) are coming later this year. Desktop will come in the autumn, and additional products for enterprise, workstation and enthusiast notebooks will also happen. As for today's 8th Generation U-series announcement, Intel tells us that we should start seeing laptops using the new CPUs hit the market in September.

Source: http://www.anandtech.com/show/11738/intel-launches-8th-generation-cpus-starting-with-kaby-lake-refresh-for-15w-mobile

 

After all the rumour hype, this suggests today's launch was for mobile parts only, and is a Kaby Lake refresh at that. My first coffee of its day (mug, not lake) is still working its way through my system so I hope I'm missing something here and we will still get desktop soon, but that may be wishful thinking. Go back to buying Ryzen if you want lots of desktop cores for now.

 

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Coffee Lake will likely find its way to the desktop consumer market later this year as a 14nm design while Cannonlake could be the 10nm refresh of Coffee Lake and span many different product segments.

Source: https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Intel-announces-8th-Generation-Core-Processors-starting-15-watt-quad-core-Kab?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

This is less certain, but suggestive that desktop will be coffee lake, but it isn't today.

[Z17]

Just now, porina said:

Kaby Lake refresh

Skylake refresh refresh?

[captain_to_fire]

So no more dual core MacBook Pros... 

But I think Apple and other OEMs will still ship laptops maxed out to 16 GB LPDDR3 memory on a single channel.

[Jurrunio]

9 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

So no more dual core MacBook Pros... 

But I think Apple and other OEMs will still ship laptops maxed out to 16 GB LPDDR3 memory on a single channel.

There will still be Pentiums that are hyper threaded dual cores. No news on Celerons though.

[LienusLateTips]

With with with

 

 

I guess I'll stop telling everyone to wait for Covfefe Lake.

[rn8686]

"8th gen"

What is the point other then hopefully putting proper paste between the IHS to solve the thermal issues? 

[TheGunzPT]

This is amazing news for laptop users.

 

You can finally replace your dual core setup for a i5 quad core setup.

[LienusLateTips]

1 minute ago, rn8686 said:

"8th gen"

What is the point other then hopefully putting proper paste between the IHS to solve the thermal issues? 

Hopefully...

[LienusLateTips]

Just now, TheGunzPT said:

This is amazing news for laptop users.

 

You can finally replace your dual core setup for a i5 quad core setup.

I'm glad I told my mom to wait for today.

[snortingfrogs]

I'm gonna wait till 8700K comes before I build a new WS/Gaming rig.

Hopefully we will get some release dates soon.

[TheGunzPT]

Just now, JDE said:

I'm glad I told my mom to wait for today.

I've been waiting for this chips to get onto a new Macbook Pro.

 

I wasn't up to buy a i7 version since I don't need it,  but at the same time I didn't wanted to spedn 1500$ on a dual core.

[AlTech]

RIP power consumption and battery life on those quad core SKUs.

[TheGunzPT]

1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

RIP power consumption and battery life on those quad core SKUs.

Don't spread false information mate.

 

The U-SKU will only use the additional 2 cores when it's needed according to the application, if the application requires additional cores they'll get activated.. This ain't Android where a 8 core chip will always be working on the background. 
 

You can check the additional information given by Intel about this statement

[AlTech]

Just now, TheGunzPT said:

Don't spread false information mate.

Are you quoting the right person?

 

I'm not spreading false information. I think that the battery life on devices with those will be bad.

 

Power consumption on dual core Skylake 15w iris Graphics SKU based devices were really bad. If intel had difficulty with that then I'm pretty sure the quad core chips will be similarly as bad in terms of power consumption and/or battery life.

Just now, TheGunzPT said:

The U-SKU will only use the additional 2 cores when it's needed according to the application,

I've used multiple laptops with U series CPUs.

 

I think I have a pretty good idea as to how they operate.

Just now, TheGunzPT said:

This ain't Android where a 8 core chip will always be working on the background.

I don't like your tone or attitude.

A quad core CPU still draws power when at idle. Even if only 2 CPU cores are being used, it still has to keep the other 2 at idle and use power.

 

I was mostly concerned about power consumption under full load since that's what can be most detrimental to the battery life of devices.

[Trixanity]

30 minutes ago, TheGunzPT said:

Don't spread false information mate.

 

The U-SKU will only use the additional 2 cores when it's needed according to the application, if the application requires additional cores they'll get activated.. This ain't Android where a 8 core chip will always be working on the background. 
 

You can check the additional information given by Intel about this statement

Don't spread false information mate.

 

Android devices put cores to sleep and only uses the necessary cores which depends on kernel tuning.

15 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Are you quoting the right person?

 

I'm not spreading false information. I think that the battery life on devices with those will be bad.

 

Power consumption on dual core Skylake 15w iris Graphics SKU based devices were really bad. If intel had difficulty with that then I'm pretty sure the quad core chips will be similarly as bad in terms of power consumption and/or battery life.

I've used multiple laptops with U series CPUs.

 

I think I have a pretty good idea as to how they operate.

I don't like your tone or attitude.

A quad core CPU still draws power when at idle. Even if only 2 CPU cores are being used, it still has to keep the other 2 at idle and use power.

 

I was mostly concerned about power consumption under full load since that's what can be most detrimental to the battery life of devices.

I haven't had issues with Haswell Iris, so I'm assuming it's related either to Skylake (sounds unlikely) or to the device you use. Of course if it runs at full capacity it'll drain the battery fast (which any device and configuration will).

 

Putting cores to sleep should reduce power consumption to the point of being almost inconsequential. It is tricky though; to decide if it's worth it to keep a core active or not.

[TheGunzPT]

2 minutes ago, Trixanity said:

Don't spread false information mate.

 

Android devices put cores to sleep and only uses the necessary cores which depends on kernel tuning.

I haven't had issues with Haswell Iris, so I'm assuming it's related either to Skylake (sounds unlikely) or to the device you use. Of course if it runs at full capacity it'll drain the battery fast (which any device and configuration will).

 

Putting cores to sleep should reduce power consumption to the point of being almost inconsequential. It is tricky though; to decide if it's worth it to keep a core active or not.

Sure, becuase it worked out great for Snapdragon 808 and non Stock Android phones.

 

Why do you think people on XDA create scripts to make 8 core CPUs act like Quad Core CPUs on background tasks? You should see the Android community ever since 8 Core became a norm.

 

Besides Exynos, any other CPU (including Qualcomm) has a very poor 8 core setup in the software.

[AlTech]

1 minute ago, Trixanity said:

I haven't had issues with Haswell Iris, so I'm assuming it's related either to Skylake (sounds unlikely) or to the device you use.

Not too many Skylake Iris Graphics SKUs were used  in laptops so i don't know for certain but I remember hearing a few reviewer say that the Dell XPS 13 Skylake Iris graphics had worse battery life and got pretty hot. Not many other devices used Skylake Iris other than the expensive Dell XPS 13 (2016) Iris SKU, the Surface Pro 4 and the MBP 2016 13"

[Trixanity]

14 minutes ago, TheGunzPT said:

Sure, becuase it worked out great for Snapdragon 808 and non Stock Android phones.

 

Why do you think people on XDA create scripts to make 8 core CPUs act like Quad Core CPUs on background tasks? You should see the Android community ever since 8 Core became a norm.

 

Besides Exynos, any other CPU (including Qualcomm) has a very poor 8 core setup in the software.

I assume you know the answer but don't want to acknowledge it as it contradicts your argument. Edit: also it's got nothing to do with stock Android. Stock devices have also had issues.

 

The XDA stuff I've seen relates specifically to 808/810 as you say but why could that be? Because their performance cluster is A57 based and manufactured on a 20nm planar process - in other words: Chernobyl-on-a-chip. So they disable the A57 cores specifically. A53 has a good track record though.

 

XDA also likes hyper miling on battery life, so people will try to disable cores, reduce clock speeds and undervolt. Even if it is detrimental to user experience and causes a little sluggishness. On the other side of the fence I've seen people keeping more cores permanently on to avoid stalls when waiting for cores coming online.

 

Also, you're doing something wrong if your device needs all 8 cores for background tasks.

 

Source on bad software implementation?

[Trixanity]

15 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Not too many Skylake Iris Graphics SKUs were used  in laptops so i don't know for certain but I remember hearing a few reviewer say that the Dell XPS 13 Skylake Iris graphics had worse battery life and got pretty hot. Not many other devices used Skylake Iris other than the expensive Dell XPS 13 (2016) Iris SKU, the Surface Pro 4 and the MBP 2016 13"

What work loads? Iris puts a strain on power budget. Often you'll find the CPU throttling to keep the GPU running at boosted speeds. So in GPU heavy scenarios you'll probably find worse battery life but I can't imagine there being much difference in CPU load or at light load or even idle unless their design is bad or has issues keeping the power low when active.

[MyName13]

Isn't this a few hours early?Damn, fall is too late.

[captain_to_fire]

1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

RIP power consumption and battery life on those quad core SKUs.

Any reference to this other than speculation and tiny anecdotal evidence?

 

[ScratchCat]

10 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Any reference to this other than speculation and tiny anecdotal evidence?

 

https://www.notebookcheck.com/Benchmarks-und-Testergebnisse.122207.0.html?sort=b_battery_battery_idle&max_results=500&or=0&showBars=1&test_illumination_illumination_mc=1&test_illumination_de2000_colorchecker=1&test_battery_battery_idle=1&test_battery_battery_wlan=1&test_battery_battery_h264_1080p_bigbuckbunny=1&test_loudness_loudness_idle_med=1&test_loudness_loudness_load_med=1&test_current_current_idle_avg=1&test_current_current_load_avg=1&test_heat_heat_up_5=1&model=1&cpu_name=1&gpu_name=1

Thousands of battery life test results ordered by battery life at idle, the quad core SKUs only appear half way down the page. They have worse idle battery life even though most laptops with quad cores are larger and therefore can contain a larger battery than the small laptops with dual core SKUs.

 

It will be worrying to see these quad cores in small laptops even though most already thermal throttle with ULV dual cores.

[suicidalfranco]

2 hours ago, TheGunzPT said:

Sure, becuase it worked out great for Snapdragon 808 and non Stock Android phones.

 

Why do you think people on XDA create scripts to make 8 core CPUs act like Quad Core CPUs on background tasks? You should see the Android community ever since 8 Core became a norm.

 

Besides Exynos, any other CPU (including Qualcomm) has a very poor 8 core setup in the software.

last time i checked BIG.litle doesn't let you run both clusters at the same time unless you modify the kernel to force them to run at the same time, something that only happens when using customROMs, not on OEM builds or even source Android

And the 808 is a hexacore SoC, 2 small + 4 big.

[Sniperfox47]

14 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

last time i checked BIG.litle doesn't let you run both clusters at the same time unless you modify the kernel to force them to run at the same time, something that only happens when using customROMs, not on OEM builds or even source Android

And the 808 is a hexacore SoC, 2 small + 4 big.

Just my two cents but on stock both my Nexus 6P (SD810) and Pixel XL (SD821) will make use of BIG+little on heavy loads like gaming and VR.

 

Also just want to point out to other people that Intel clock control and core hotplugging work very different than most ARM SoCs. They're mostly handled in firmware and as such are quite a bit harder to tweak on a per device basis.

 

Honestly in my experience Intel chips have this habit of just clocking down their unused cores rather than actually hotplugging them.

 

Also keep in mind these new chips are looking at base clocks nearly a full GHz lower than the current skus. So they may have twice the cores, but they only have 2/3 the performance per core at base clock.

 

How many people actually expect these chips to be used anywhere they'll hit their full boost clock on two cores, much less 4?

[PlayStation 2]

Kaby Lake refresh.

You see, unlike Haswell refresh, I don't see the point of KL being refreshed. At all.