"Daddy'O'Five" parents might end up spending 10 years in prison for child abuse

[spartaman64]

2 minutes ago, Teddy07 said:

How exactly is this tech news or reviews?

youtube

[Bananasplit_00]

4 hours ago, christianled59 said:

There was also physical violence. He forced the kids to hit each other, and he shoved some of them. He also destroyed things in front of the kid to incite fear. Then yell at them for crying about it.

wow. thats quite a bit worse than i thought. thats pretty horrible, holy fucking shit. dosent make me want to hear the kids side any less though.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

wow. thats quite a bit worse than i thought. thats pretty horrible, holy fucking shit. dosent make me want to hear the kids side any less though.

Also the older kid hit the younger ones, and was allowed and encouraged to. Older kid loved it, worry about that as well. Luckily the younger kids are at their bio mom since a good while now.

[Ithanul]

33 minutes ago, Teddy07 said:

How exactly is this tech news or reviews?

Agree.  This just another, "O, look at what some dumb people with no sense did".

I am surprise it not lock considering there a high chance for politics to show up in this type of news.

[Mooshi]

On 8/19/2017 at 2:13 PM, NumLock21 said:

-SNIP-

I like how drop the soap is fine yet my spoiler "from behind" was remove worthy. I've seen waaaay worse posted so I'm a bit huh myself

Edited August 20, 2017 by W-L
Moderation Content

[Prysin]

9 hours ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

wow. thats quite a bit worse than i thought. thats pretty horrible, holy fucking shit. dosent make me want to hear the kids side any less though.

yeah that fat fuck of a stepmom and the scrawny dad need to be chucked in a meatgrinder and compacted into a chumball for shark research.

[LAwLz]

Too harsh if you ask me.

There is no denying that what they did was horrible, but come on... 10 years in prison? Will that actually help the situation in any way?

You should not think of prison as revenge, but rather as a tool to either keep dangerous people away from the public or to rehabilitate them. Such a long punishment would do neither.

If anything, a long prison punishment would just result in an overall loss for society. Keep people in prison costs a lot, and that's before you take into consideration the fact that they stop contributing to society (through goods, services, and taxes).

[Jito463]

21 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

You should not think of prison as revenge, but rather as a tool to either keep dangerous people away from the public or to rehabilitate them. Such a long punishment would do neither.

Prison can also serve as a deterrent to others who might do the same.

[Neutrideo]

23 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Too harsh if you ask me.

There is no denying that what they did was horrible, but come on... 10 years in prison? Will that actually help the situation in any way?

You should not think of prison as revenge, but rather as a tool to either keep dangerous people away from the public or to rehabilitate them. Such a long punishment would do neither.

If anything, a long prison punishment would just result in an overall loss for society. Keep people in prison costs a lot, and that's before you take into consideration the fact that they stop contributing to society (through goods, services, and taxes).

prison is keeping the dangerous parents from the kids

[LAwLz]

7 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Prison can also serve as a deterrent to others who might do the same.

5 minutes ago, Neutrideo said:

prison is keeping the dangerous parents from the kids

Losing custody of their children (which I think they already did) would accomplish the same thing without putting a massive burden on society, and ruining the chances of the parents adapting to become citizens again.

But I doubt they will get 10 years in prison. That's just the maximum (actually, it seems like the maximum is 5 years, but it's 5 years each).

[LAwLz]

Just now, VegetableStu said:

They don't look like people who would be trusted with a restraining order

So you will, based on their looks, judge that they would not be able to follow a restraining order and would rather put them in jail instead? You do not even want to give them a chance?

 

I don't know where these people live, but if it was in New York then the average cost of keeping a prisoner in prison is over 160,000. I don't think that includes the monetary loss of not having them pay taxes and such, so the actual amount might be even higher.

But basically, you're saying that it is worth spending 1,600,000 dollars (very rough estimate) (double if it would be 10 years each instead of 5 years each), plus potentially ruin the lives of two people who might have the chance of redeeming themselves, just because you don't like the way they look?

 

 

You should not let emotions and personal opinions cloud your judgment.

Again, prison is not a tool to use for revenge.

[NumLock21]

11 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

 

Snip

The kids are now with their biological mother. The 2 scumbags, did something horrible and they deserve jail time period. The heck is it with you, at giving them another chance? You think the kids will have "another chance" at living a normal life? No they won't, they are scarred forever mentally, for the rest of their lives, no matter how much they try not to remember it, as they grow up. 

 

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, NumLock21 said:

The kids are now with their biological mother. The 2 scumbags, did something horrible and they deserve jail time period. The heck is it with you, at giving them another chance? You think the kids will have "another chance" at living a normal life? No they won't, they are scarred forever mentally, for the rest of their lives, no matter how much they try not to remember it, as they grow up.

1

Can you, without using any emotional or other subjective arguments, justify putting them in prison for 5 years?

I have already explained why I believe it is a bad idea. Wanna punish them? Sure, I am not arguing against that. But to put them in prison where they cost taxpayers a fortune? Really bad idea. Take away custody of their children (because they are clearly unfit to have any), make them pay for counseling (try and heal some of the damages they most likely have caused), and then make them do community service or something else which will contribute to society instead of leech off it.

 

 

1 hour ago, Jito463 said:

Typical leftist, more concerned about the criminals than the victims.

1) Why are you (inaccurately) bringing up my political views? That's just a poor attempt at an ad hominem argument.

I usually find that I am rather left nor right leaning. Especially not these days when everyone on both sides is insane extremists. I am sure that plenty of people would call me right-wing based on my post history. It entirely depends on the subject.

 

2) I don't particularly care about the parents. What I do care about is making the situation better. Putting them in prison for 5 years will not do that. At that point, we are just talking about revenge because we hate the people, not because the situation will be better by putting them in jail. Why waste a huge amount of money to put them in jail? You're just making the situation even worse for everyone, not just the criminals but also all taxpayers. Do you really want over 1,5 millions of your taxpayer money to go towards food and shelter for these despicable parents? I wouldn't. But that's what you are arguing for.

"I sure hate these people... I hate them so much I want to pay their food and rent for 5 years! That's how much I hate them!"

 

 

Whenever the subject of punishment comes up I feel like people let their emotions take control. The justice system should not be based around revenge, even though you might hate the person that's guilty. What you should strive for is to make the situation better. If you don't care about making the situation better then why even have a justice system to begin with? It's not making things better so why even have it? If you can't argue (without arguing from emotions) why someone should be punished a certain way, then you are not thinking logically. Just because you might think that a kick to the nuts is a fitting punishment doesn't mean it will actually help the victims or anyone else.

[Misanthrope]

Pretty sure Sweden has better criminal rehabilitation numbers than the US so I wouldn't argue things like deterring and such. 

[Jito463]

6 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

2) I don't particularly care about the parents. What I do care about is making the situation better. Putting them in prison for 5 years will not do that. At that point, we are just talking about revenge because we hate the people, not because the situation will be better by putting them in jail. Why waste a huge amount of money to put them in jail? You're just making the situation even worse for everyone, not just the criminals but also all taxpayers. Do you really want over 1,5 millions of your taxpayer money to go towards food and shelter for these despicable parents? I wouldn't. But that's what you are arguing for.

"I sure hate these people... I hate them so much I want to pay their food and rent for 5 years! That's how much I hate them!"

No one here has argued that prison is a perfect solution, but it is a necessary 'evil' (if you will).  What's your solution?  You've said we shouldn't put them in jail, but you haven't provided an alternative.  Rather than say what we shouldn't do, why not tell us your idea of what we should do.

[FakeNSA]

7 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

No one here has argued that prison is a perfect solution, but it is a necessary 'evil' (if you will).  What's your solution?  You've said we shouldn't put them in jail, but you haven't provided an alternative.  Rather than say what we shouldn't do, why not tell us your idea of what we should do.

Remove custody, pay reparation to the children, and have a restraining order against both. Also, probably lock off adoption in the future.

 

This from a conservative, who would rather not waste food on these particular idiots.

[LAwLz]

8 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

No one here has argued that prison is a perfect solution, but it is a necessary 'evil' (if you will).  What's your solution?  You've said we shouldn't put them in jail, but you haven't provided an alternative.  Rather than say what we shouldn't do, why not tell us your idea of what we should do.

Read the first part of the post you responded to. I edited the post just after posting it so you might have missed it.

Here is my suggestion:

16 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I have already explained why I believe it is a bad idea. Wanna punish them? Sure, I am not arguing against that. But to put them in prison where they cost taxpayers a fortune? Really bad idea. Take away custody of their children (because they are clearly unfit to have any), make them pay for counseling (try and heal some of the damages they most likely have caused), and then make them do community service or something else which will contribute to society instead of leech off it.

 

 

Each part of the punishment is (if I do say so myself) thought out and can be justified by facts and logic.

 

Hell, I didn't even say no to prison. What I said no to was putting them in prison for 10 years (or 5 years each).

[Jito463]

11 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Hell, I didn't even say no to prison. What I said no to was putting them in prison for 10 years (or 5 years each).

If I misread/misinterpreted your argument, then my apologies.  It seemed (to me) you were making the case that they shouldn't go to jail, and attempting to justify it with a fiscal argument.  Hence, my response.  I'm not opposed to your suggestions, though I do believe they should spend some time in jail.

 

28 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Pretty sure Sweden has better criminal rehabilitation numbers than the US so I wouldn't argue things like deterring and such. 

There's two separate issues pertaining to that problem.

 

1) Our prison systems aren't setup for rehabilitation.

2) Some people don't want to live on the outside, they prefer the "simplicity" of living in prison (yes, these people really do exist).

 

Regarding 1, there are several things that can be done.  First off, I would make the prisoners work.  They used to put them to work making license plates, and that's not a bad place to start.  I'm sure there's plenty of other work that they can be made to do.  Secondly, career training could be offered for those who sincerely wish to be rehabilitated (which would not automatically include everyone).  Those same people should still have to work and pay for their time in prison.

 

Regarding 2, part of the problem is that prisoners often have it better than many of us on the outside.  Gyms, TV, free food/housing, etc.  Take away the amenities.  Make prison what it was meant to be, a place of punishment where people are taken because they've violated the law and/or proven a menace to society.

 

I never said the deterrent always worked, but that is one purpose of it.

[NumLock21]

31 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Can you, without using any emotional or other subjective

I wasn't having emotions, when i made that post. :I

They can get counseling, after they have serve their time out in the steel pen, if they survive that it is. Conseling is easy, just like paying a fine. Jail time on the other hand isn't, and it will take a toll on them. This will make them think twice before doing any of this again, and to show others, there are consequences for their actions. 

 

 

 

[Misanthrope]

58 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

If I misread/misinterpreted your argument, then my apologies.  It seemed (to me) you were making the case that they shouldn't go to jail, and attempting to justify it with a fiscal argument.  Hence, my response.  I'm not opposed to your suggestions, though I do believe they should spend some time in jail.

 

There's two separate issues pertaining to that problem.

 

1) Our prison systems aren't setup for rehabilitation.

2) Some people don't want to live on the outside, they prefer the "simplicity" of living in prison (yes, these people really do exist).

 

Regarding 1, there are several things that can be done.  First off, I would make the prisoners work.  They used to put them to work making license plates, and that's not a bad place to start.  I'm sure there's plenty of other work that they can be made to do.  Secondly, career training could be offered for those who sincerely wish to be rehabilitated (which would not automatically include everyone).  Those same people should still have to work and pay for their time in prison.

 

Regarding 2, part of the problem is that prisoners often have it better than many of us on the outside.  Gyms, TV, free food/housing, etc.  Take away the amenities.  Make prison what it was meant to be, a place of punishment where people are taken because they've violated the law and/or proven a menace to society.

 

I never said the deterrent always worked, but that is one purpose of it.

1) Yes that was kind of my point: your approach seems to be to appease society and victims first, address root causes and problems...dead last?

2) Well your prisons, while bad, are by far not the worst around.

 

Quick anecdote to 2) but yet relevant: Here in Mexico call centers are big business. But there's only so many middle class guys that are bilingual and willing to get un-competitive salaries (since you know, those are the guys that end up with more studies and can quickly move up to better paid positions that are far less stressful) 

 

So this positions are quickly getting filled up with guys that are deported from the US. And no there's no good way to do international background checks for businesses here in Mexico, not efficiently enough to keep up with the positions demand so many of them are basically coming straight out of US prison after finishing up their sentences they get deported. 

 

I've met quite a few of them and I was curious and asked: "So if you did a 10 year stretch for armed robbery in a US Federal prison no offense buy why do you take such a shit paying job here in Mexico?"

 

The answer without even a second of hesitation was: "What and risk jail here in Mexico? Fuck that over here is the real shit I wouldn't go anywhere near it" He basically explained a lot of what you describe in point 2: How the US prisons despite the long sentenced aren't actually not that bad. Not compared to prison here which usually means you get beat up within an inch of your life right away and a guy on the outside threatens your family if you don't come up with basically a full time salary each month they'll kill not only the guy doing the time but their families on the outside.

[W-L]

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