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AMD Vega Chips May Be Manufactured with (Slightly) Different Heights

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https://tweakers.net/nieuws/128409/amd-levert-vega-chips-van-verschillende-hoogte-en-afwerkkwaliteit-aan-partners.html (Dutch page, here's a Google Translated page in English)

 

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De Vega-videokaarten van AMD kunnen met twee verschillende chips worden geleverd, ieder met kleine verschillen in hoogte. Dat levert mogelijk problemen voor koelers op en zou tot beschadigingen van de dies kunnen leiden.

De verschillen kwamen aan het licht doordat AMD in de verpakking van de reviewsamples die het aan techmedia leverde, als extraatje een losse Vega-chip, compleet met hbm2-geheugen op interposer, had gestopt. De Vega-chips worden namelijk niet simpelweg op een substraat geplakt, maar worden op een interposer gemonteerd die een snelle verbinding met het hbm2-geheugen op diezelfde interposer mogelijk maakt. De interposer zit dan op een substraat dat op het pcb van de videokaart wordt gesoldeerd. Dat chippackage hebben we samen met de videokaart voor de review op de foto gezet. Collega Hardware.info, dat sinds de overname door de Persgroep ons pand deelt, kreeg ook zo'n pakket, maar met een andere losse chip als verrassing.

 

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English quote:

 


AMD Vega video cards can be delivered with two different chips, each with small differences in height. This may cause problems for coolers and could lead to damages to the dies.

The differences were revealed by AMD stopping in the packaging of the reviewsamples that delivered it to techmedia as an additional Vega chip chip complete with hbm2 memory on interposer. The Vega chips are not simply stuck on a substrate, but are mounted on an interposer that allows a quick connection to the hbm2 memory on that same interposer. The interposer then sits on a substrate that is soldered on the PCB of the video card. We have seen that chip packet together with the video card for the review. Mr Hardware.info , who has shared our property since the acquisition of the Press Group, also received such a package, but with another loose chip as a surprise.

 

In the meanwhile we have placed both chips next to each other, stating that they are not identical. The one chip has a black border around the loose dies of Vega-asic and hbm2-stacks and the other does not have that edge. Inquiry at a source in the hardware industry revealed that it actually involves two different chips, one of the chips being a so-called molded version and the other one an unmolded chip. This source confirms that not only the chips sent to reviewers differ, but manufacturers also get different types of chips from AMD.

AMD would have enabled two companies to further process the chips on the interposer. One polished the dies so that they are equally high and bring a glue edge around and between the chips, the other does not. That edge around the door can protect the individual chips from crumbling when a cooler is placed.

 

However, if we look very well at the two chips, we can see and feel that there is a small difference in height between them. The molded version is completely smooth and overall slightly lower than the unmolded version. There the memory chips are slightly lower than the Vega chip and the whole is slightly higher. Manufacturers of video cards should therefore take into account the design of their coolers to effectively cool both variants. In addition, there is a suspicion that owners of the map that want to install a water block are better off with the molded variant, as it is completely even and less easily damaged. The part numbers would not be able to see which GPUs are used in video cards.

 

 

TL;DR in not-pidgeon English, the Vega chips may actually have small variations in height that could potentially make a difference in cooling.

This is a little strange, in my opinion, that the Vega chips could have varying heights. It seems like it could be a potential issue if they start having large variations in height. What's your take on it?

 

This is my first Tech News page, so if there's something I gotta touch up on, then I'll be happy to go through and edit.

Edited by Dan Castellaneta
Basically pasted the rest of the English translated article.

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Local asshole and 6th generation console enthusiast.

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Posted

as long as there is enough paste for it to cover the DIE and the cooler, there should be no problem. don't see why a small difference in height would make a difference in temps that are significant (over 2c), its going to be covered in paste anyways. 

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138 is a good number.

 

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1 minute ago, MyName13 said:

Wtf is going on at AMD?

Could very well be just to hit stock. Although, it doesn't seem like it's gonna be a real problem if it's within margin of error measurements.

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Didn't the 280x have this problem? Or at least a similar one

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Is this present on actual Vega cards? The Vega chips included in the press kits may be pre productions ones.

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1 minute ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Is this present on actual Vega cards? The Vega chips included in the press kits may be pre productions ones.

That's what it doesn't mention. I would want to see if there's any actual effect to it, either way.

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Ayy, somebody did it for me. :D

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30 minutes ago, potoooooooo said:

It's the iphone die size debacle all over again

Oh yeah I forgot about that

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted

Doubt it'll make much difference, but here are some US sources:

 

https://www.hardocp.com/news/2017/08/16/amd_sampling_different_vega_64_gpus63

 

https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/amd-radeon-rx-vega-10-chips-differ-physically-and-quite-significantly.html

 

According to a response that HardOCP has on their little blip:

Quote

Here is the official answer from AMD. - "We have multiple manufacturing partners for Vega, one of them uses an epoxy fill to level the SOC surface, otherwise they’re functionally identical.

 

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a little worried here. i have a vega water block on preorder from EK hope i'll have no trouble. 

GPU drivers giving you a hard time? Try this! (DDU)

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Just now, LukaH said:

a little worried here. i have a vega water block on preorder from EK hope i'll have no trouble. 

Most likely you will be fine, dw.

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Posted

it's not really surprising, here is a picture of AMD vega manufacturing process

 

unfinished+obelisk.jpg1.jpg

 

Here's what the finished product should look like, obviously, some variations are to be expected

 

1887a286ed26964bc712044180749b86.jpg

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It is because the chips get assembled by 2 different companies. The 2 companies have slightly different ways of putting the memory on the chips. That's what causes the height differences. There is also a difference in end product quality. There is no assurance that you will get one or the other. In fact, when you order 2 vega's you may well get the 2 "different" versions. No big deal though. It shouldn't make any difference in terms of cooling. A slight performance increase or decrease can occur though. 

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Vega must be using 2 foundries?  You can tell by the marks on the backside of the silicon.  Intel and AMD have different coloring even.

 

EDIT: nevermind, can't really tell because camera angle is different it's not reflecting light the same.

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Looks like they ran out of FineGlue™.

 

 

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Are we talking about Z-height here, or some Z-height?

If it's Z-height (which I assume) then the next question is, are the coolers designed for the thinner dies or the fatter ones?

If the coolers are designed for the thinner ones then the thermal paste will probably help with some of it, and the result will probably just be a small variation in heat.

If the cooler is designed after the thinner chips then you might have problems, because the mounting pressure will be too high on the fatter chip.

 

Of course, that depends on how large the differences are. Chances are it is a non-issue.

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5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Are we talking about Z-height here, or some Z-height?

If it's Z-height (which I assume) then the next question is, are the coolers designed for the thinner dies or the fatter ones?

If the coolers are designed for the thinner ones then the thermal paste will probably help with some of it, and the result will probably just be a small variation in heat.

If the cooler is designed after the thinner chips then you might have problems, because the mounting pressure will be too high on the fatter chip.

 

Of course, that depends on how large the differences are. Chances are it is a non-issue.

Same website has an update on it, have to translate it though: https://tweakers.net/nieuws/128461/amd-bevestigt-gebruik-verschillende-vega-packages.html

 

'The Vega package is made by different manufacturers, it is needed to supply enough chips'

 

The difference can be seen here:

 

 

https://content.hwigroup.net/images/editorial/1920/009794_2017_08_16_1914.jpg

 

https://content.hwigroup.net/images/editorial/1920/009793_2017_08_16_1913.jpg

 

'There are molded and unmolded variants, the molded one has some epoxy in it, the unmolded doesn't, it does not have a functionality impact says AMD'

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