Talk about getting 'locked out' of your own house!

[goodtofufriday]

As someone in the field of electronic locks, we dont issue out firmware updates provided to us until its deemed necessary. We skipped out on 3 revisions of the management software because it didnt have critical updates in them. And we only did update so that we could support a few more rf frequencies. 

 

If we ever had an issue like this the turn around time would need to be day of. And if we couldnt do that then to provide security personel at the front door until we resolve. 

[NumLock21]

11 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Smart locks? Really. I'd love to know why one can't use a traditional key lock.

Cause they want to be cool, along with their bitter tasting dark coffee.

[ZackBarletto]

I don't see why with something as major and a grand scale as the IoT, why must we keep making the same mistakes.

 

I think (can be wrong) our cell phones go through more testing and validations than these locks for your HOUSE.

 

But this is because we are on out 8th 9th generation of flag ship phone.

 

So why don't we treat the IoT as if we have already been doing this forever and get multiple tests done and multiple teams working on getting it right. Why do we have to fail this bad to start to get it right. Get it right for a phone that has 1000 of features more than a lock and key mechanism.

[ZackBarletto]

1 hour ago, goodtofufriday said:

As someone in the field of electronic locks, we dont issue out firmware updates provided to us until its deemed necessary. We skipped out on 3 revisions of the management software because it didnt have critical updates in them. And we only did update so that we could support a few more rf frequencies. 

 

If we ever had an issue like this the turn around time would need to be day of. And if we couldnt do that then to provide security personel at the front door until we resolve. 

This is what i'm talking about. Logical steps to reduce all likely hood of an issue. but when their is, You give responsible solutions for your mistakes.

 

It might be cheaper to just have someone (a fleet) drive around replacing locks on a same day basis for warranty basis only, but a house body guard works too!!! lol

[Sauron]

WHY does a door lock need to be connected to the internet???

[Zando_]

Just now, Sauron said:

WHY does a door lock need to be connected to the internet???

Because moar internet moar better, right? 

[ZackBarletto]

I would rather have my IoT connected to an intranet that connects to a central server or management console, then have that connected to some security tubes, then out to internet tubes.

 

Just so its like patch management, i'm looking at one device, update all the plugins or add-ons. then push them out as i want/need them.

[bob345]

Using a smartlock is almost as bad as disabling your antivirus because it "slows down the computer". A nice high quality lock and key is far superior as long as it's not a master lock

[TetraSky]

Smart lock, yet another gimmick people buy into when it's really less secure than a proper high quality key lock.

[ZackBarletto]

6 minutes ago, bob345 said:

Using a smartlock is almost as bad as disabling your antivirus because it "slows down the computer". A nice high quality lock and key is far superior as long as it's not a master lock

I see your point, but unfortunately (far out of my league) lock picks still exist and there is actually a small community still interested in how locks work and the new security features they come with and how to bypass them. Almost like computers, they announce a new security feature and see if they can bypass it on the spot with various techniques and tools..

There is a you-tube channel that breaks down and explain various types of locks and he picks them in the videos.

 

My overall point is that if someone wants into your house and they are dedicated enough (just like a computer) It can and will be compromised. lol

 

But yes until smart locks prove they are far more superior compared to traditional locks, why make the rush to change.

[bob345]

2 minutes ago, ZackBarletto said:

I see your point, but unfortunately (far out of my league) lock picks still exist and there is actually a small community still interested in how locks work and the new security features they come with and how to bypass them. Almost like computers, they announce a new security feature and see if they can bypass it on the spot with various techniques and tools..

There is a you-tube channel that breaks down and explain various types of locks and he picks them in the videos.

 

My overall point is that if someone wants into your house and they are dedicated enough (just like a computer) It can and will be compromised. lol

 

But yes until smart locks prove they are far more superior compared to traditional locks, why make the rush to change.

That's why you need a much nicer lock like an abloy. Far harder to pick than your run of the mill master lock that can be opened with a paperclip. 

[Master Disaster]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

WHY does a door lock need to be connected to the internet???

For the same reason having an Apple logo on your device boosts the price by 25%.....

 

Bragging rights for hipsters and the uninformed rich.

[Sauron]

Just now, Master Disaster said:

For the same reason having an Apple logo on your device boosts the price by 25%.....

 

Bragging rights

the apple logo doesn't make it less secure and more prone to failure

[Master Disaster]

Just now, Sauron said:

the apple logo doesn't make it less secure and more prone to failure

You sure about that lol

[spartaman64]

 

Quote

Lockstate CEO Nolan Mondrow wrote a letter to customers who were affected by the screw up on August 8th. He explained that “a software update was sent to your [6000i] lock, it failed to reconnect to our web service making a remote fix impossible.” The automatic update that was pushed out over the WiFi-connected locks bricked about eight percent of the devices it was sent to according to Mondrow.

 

 

Quote

When your smart lock is busted, it’s not just a matter of calling the locksmith and stopping by Home Depot to pick up a new one. Lockstate offered a replacement by mail for customers who sent in the back portion of the lock for reformatting within 5-7 days. Customers who wanted a replacement without sending their own lock first face a 14-18 day wait time. The company told Threatpost that about 500 customers lost their locks and a free year of access to its portal service was being offered as a mea culpa.

 

Quote

For individual customers, this may not have been a huge issue—both keyed and keypad entry are available on the smart locks. But for businesses, this was likely a huge pain in the ass. Airbnb recommends the smart lock as part of its Host Assist program. A property owner can rent out their space and just give the code to a renter from wherever they happen to be. The bricked locks apparently left some renters angry:

1

I think the company should offer to make up for the lost revenue the Airbnb hosts incurred as a result of this bug. They need to check updates more carefully or else they will lose confidence from consumers.

 

 

source: http://gizmodo.com/smart-locks-used-by-airbnb-get-bricked-by-software-upda-1797839523

[ARikozuM]

Thank goodness my Kevo allows keys to open the bolt. 

[spartaman64]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

Thank goodness my Kevo allows keys to open the bolt. 

the smart lock in the article apparently allowed keypad entry which still worked

[XR6]

Just now, spartaman64 said:

the smart lock in the article apparently allowed keypad entry which still worked

Yeah, but it's not really great having a smart lock that won't work.

tbh i don't see the point of electronic door locks, a lock is a lock.

[ARikozuM]

Just now, spartaman64 said:

the smart lock in the article apparently allowed keypad entry which still worked

Ahh, so there was a secondary method of use, but it seems that this would have affected businesses more than consumers. 

 

2 minutes ago, 1kv said:

Yeah, but it's not really great having a smart lock that won't work.

tbh i don't see the point of electronic door locks, a lock is a lock.

If you're a business with a handful of employees, making keys for each isn't difficult. If you have more than a handful, it becomes increasingly difficult to keep track of keys and codes don't require material to produce (it can even be a security feature if each employee has an individual # that can be referenced against a camera shot and file as a sort of 2FA). 

[XR6]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

Ahh, so there was a secondary method of use, but it seems that this would have affected businesses more than consumers. 

 

If you're a business with a handful of employees, making keys for each isn't difficult. If you have more than a handful, it becomes increasingly difficult to keep track of keys and codes don't require material to produce (it can even be a security feature if each employee has an individual # that can be referenced against a camera shot and file as a sort of 2FA). 

True, I meant as in just for consumers, who only need 1-3 keys.

 

[ARikozuM]

Just now, 1kv said:

True, I meant as in just for consumers, who only need 1-3 keys.

I see the smart locks as a great boon for whenever you're leaving or coming home. I just touch my locks to lock or unlock the bolts. Pretty fantastic when you have an entourage of dogs and groceries to bring home. You also have the luxury (or at least Kevo does) of using Bluetooth passes for visitors that can be tracked and enabled/disabled whenever needed. 

[goodtofufriday]

5 hours ago, Sauron said:

WHY does a door lock need to be connected to the internet???

 

3 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

For the same reason having an Apple logo on your device boosts the price by 25%.....

 

Bragging rights for hipsters and the uninformed rich.

It makes more sense for management companies. 

 

When an old tenant moves out the responsible process is to remove the old locks completely and replace them. This is because you cant know how many copies a tenant made.

it is costly to constantly have to do this, especially when you have a large number of apartments in your control.

 

Now with electronic locks, we can down and remove old keys that a tenant may have lost, or kept when they moved out. We can do it immediately and without needing a lock smith to replace a lock. It is an EXTREME cost savings.

 

The same benefits can be found for personal electronic locks, however it makes no sense that the lock manufacturer can release updates to the locks without authorization.

[Sauron]

1 hour ago, goodtofufriday said:

 

It makes more sense for management companies. 

 

When an old tenant moves out the responsible process is to remove the old locks completely and replace them. This is because you cant know how many copies a tenant made.

it is costly to constantly have to do this, especially when you have a large number of apartments in your control.

 

Now with electronic locks, we can down and remove old keys that a tenant may have lost, or kept when they moved out. We can do it immediately and without needing a lock smith to replace a lock. It is an EXTREME cost savings.

 

The same benefits can be found for personal electronic locks, however it makes no sense that the lock manufacturer can release updates to the locks without authorization.

All of this could be done easily without connecting them to the internet. The only reason the updates are necessary is that instead of having a closed LAN for the locks in a building they wanted to pass through the internet.

[goodtofufriday]

26 minutes ago, Sauron said:

All of this could be done easily without connecting them to the internet. The only reason the updates are necessary is that instead of having a closed LAN for the locks in a building they wanted to pass through the internet.

I control 40+ buildings throughout the city. Im not wasting time traveling to each system locally. Thats money wasted as my time holds a monetary value. They all communicate back to home base for centralized control and immidiate execution of changes. 

[boblikepie]

I have a few thoughts on this. I do think that it's a good idea that they do have OTA firmware updates cause at least they have the ability to provide security patches to these devices (which a lot don't seem to be able to). What I don't understand is why there's no recovery firmware. I haven't seen the devices myself but why isn't there a button on the locked side (seems you can still use a physical key to unlock it) that can rollback to the previous update or install a new firmware.

 

However and maybe I'm just getting old but I don't understand the crazy for "smart" devices like this, thermostats, smart fridges, things like Google Home. All I see is not only giving away your privacy but potentially someone even going as far as burning down your home. Every time I go to the movies there's an add for the Telstra smart home and being able to turn off say your hair straightener from your movie seat because you forgot to before you left, if someone got into your "smart home" account who knows what damage they could do to your property. Maybe this is finally the point where I can say I'm not hip anymore.