Tell me about these Li Cell Bat charging modules

[TechSquidTV]

Im getting into some hobby electronics stuff again and I wanted to look at some of these cool modules and things I never used. I found these charging modules for batteries and I have a few questions.

 

The TP4056 seems popular for hobby projects, a single cell lithium battery charger. 

 

Question 1. What is the difference between the 18650 cell batteries these are used on and a LiPo pack battery. Can these modules be used on those if the current is adjusted?

 

Question 2. There seems to be two variations of this board. One with pins for supplying power to the project and ones that do not.

 

You can see this one has pins for the battery and pins "out" to the project.

 

How would you use a board like this one which does not have those? I feel as though there is a pretty large difference.

 

[W-L]

19 hours ago, Ampix0 said:

Im getting into some hobby electronics stuff again and I wanted to look at some of these cool modules and things I never used. I found these charging modules for batteries and I have a few questions.

 

The TP4056 seems popular for hobby projects, a single cell lithium battery charger. 

 

Question 1. What is the difference between the 18650 cell batteries these are used on and a LiPo pack battery. Can these modules be used on those if the current is adjusted?

 

Question 2. There seems to be two variations of this board. One with pins for supplying power to the project and ones that do not.

You can see this one has pins for the battery and pins "out" to the project.

How would you use a board like this one which does not have those? I feel as though there is a pretty large difference.

For boards that use the TP4056 it adds protection to the Li-ion cell to prevent unprotected cell from not over-discharging with a battery connection and a load connection on that board.

http://www.dx.com/p/tp4056-4-2w-1-2a-5v-lithium-battery-charging-discharging-protection-module-w-micro-usb-blue-397213

 

As for the difference between an 18650 and li-po it's basically the form factor the 18650 is encased in a metal shell and offers a little more protection than say a li-po which is a polymer bag. 

 

[TechSquidTV]

1 hour ago, W-L said:

For boards that use the TP4056 it adds protection to the Li-ion cell to prevent unprotected cell from not over-discharging with a battery connection and a load connection on that board.

http://www.dx.com/p/tp4056-4-2w-1-2a-5v-lithium-battery-charging-discharging-protection-module-w-micro-usb-blue-397213

 

As for the difference between an 18650 and li-po it's basically the form factor the 18650 is encased in a metal shell and offers a little more protection than say a li-po which is a polymer bag. 

 

Do you see how the one you linked to has pins for the battery and pins out at the left end of the board? One of the ones I linked to only has leads to the battery. How is that one meant to be used? 

[W-L]

1 minute ago, Ampix0 said:

Do you see how the one you linked to has pins for the battery and pins out at the left end of the board? One of the ones I linked to only has leads to the battery. How is that one meant to be used? 

It's only a charge module and nothing more, it doesn't have any protection for the cell if it drops below a certain voltage if it's an unprotected cell. 

[TechSquidTV]

Thank you! 

[W-L]

2 minutes ago, Ampix0 said:

Thank you! 

There is one downside with the protection built into the little modules since you will be limited to 1.2Amp which is what that board can handle.

[TechSquidTV]

10 hours ago, W-L said:

There is one downside with the protection built into the little modules since you will be limited to 1.2Amp which is what that board can handle.

So I obviously need to do more research, but isn't that on purpose to keep the battery from charging too fast?  I guess that's fine for interacting with an IC/arduino but makes a problem for running anything else off of it hu? 

[Unimportant]

15 minutes ago, Ampix0 said:

So I obviously need to do more research, but isn't that on purpose to keep the battery from charging too fast?  I guess that's fine for interacting with an IC/arduino but makes a problem for running anything else off of it hu? 

It has nothing to do with charging, the module handles everything charging related on it's own.

The module without "out" pins requires you to connect your application, whatever it is, straight to the battery. That allows you to draw as much current from the battery as you want (and the battery can handle) but offers no protection against over-discharge. Discharging a li-ion too low can damage it.

 

The second module, with separate "out" connections has a switch on board that allows it to switch off those outputs. If the battery voltage becomes too low the board switches off the outputs, thereby disconnecting your application, to prevent battery damage. However, any switching device has it's limits, in this case 1.2A - your application should not draw more as that will overload/damage the switch, and thus, the board.

[TechSquidTV]

59 minutes ago, Unimportant said:

It has nothing to do with charging, the module handles everything charging related on it's own.

The module without "out" pins requires you to connect your application, whatever it is, straight to the battery. That allows you to draw as much current from the battery as you want (and the battery can handle) but offers no protection against over-discharge. Discharging a li-ion too low can damage it.

 

The second module, with separate "out" connections has a switch on board that allows it to switch off those outputs. If the battery voltage becomes too low the board switches off the outputs, thereby disconnecting your application, to prevent battery damage. However, any switching device has it's limits, in this case 1.2A - your application should not draw more as that will overload/damage the switch, and thus, the board.

So basically 3.7v at 1.2A is just the max safe discharge rate. I'm going to do a lot more research into Lipo batteries tonight.

[W-L]

59 minutes ago, Ampix0 said:

So basically 3.7v at 1.2A is just the max safe discharge rate. I'm going to do a lot more research into Lipo batteries tonight.

Yes for that little module board you can draw way more currently directly from the cell but you'll want a different method of having a low voltage cut off before the cell runs down too low and damages itself.