Choosing a decent quiet fan

[unknownmiscreant]

Hi, I am currently looking for 4x120mm fans. 2 as top intakes (through a dust filter), one as an unfiltered exhaust. The final fan will be used to replace the fan in my amplifier, which currently sounds like a jet-engine. A static pressure radiator fan is not required, as its a very non-restrictive cooling setup. (I can post some photos if required.)

 

I think my current best choices are:

https://www.elive.co.nz/corsair-ml120-120mm-premium-magnetic-levitation-fan-dual.php

For the intakes. I was originally thinking SP120 quiet editions, however I was told they are very noisy, and for basically the same price I could get the ML fans which would be quieter. I have SP120 RGB fans, and the noise they make at 800RPM is fairly repulsive, (to me at least)

 

https://www.elive.co.nz/fractal-design-dynamic-series-gp-12-case-fan.php

For the exhaust and amplifier.

 

I am in no way wedded to the options above, and don't care about what brand. All I care about is moving the most air whilst staying virtually silent.

 

If you have any suggestions, I'd be very grateful.

Thanks in advance.

[DannyRyu]

Noctua is usually considered among the best of computer fans as far as I know.

if you are going for looks choose what you want.

unless you want your computer to run quieter or you want it to look better you don't really need many fans at all.

many people have run benchmarks including Linus showing that more fans don't equal better temps they even jammed a PC case full of a lot of crap to make airflow terrible and it didn't change temperatures that much either.

[unknownmiscreant]

3 minutes ago, DannyRyu said:

Noctua is usually considered among the best of computer fans as far as I know.

if you are going for looks choose what you want.

unless you want your computer to run quieter or you want it to look better you don't really need many fans at all.

many people have run benchmarks including Linus showing that more fans don't equal better temps they even jammed a PC case full of a lot of crap to make airflow terrible and it didn't change temperatures that much either.

Yeah I saw that video. If I could get noctua, or ek vardar fans where I live from anywhere even half reputable, or without having to pay exorbitant shipping fees, doubling the cost of the fan, I wouldn't be asking this. 

 

However my fan selection is limited to what is available from:

https://www.pbtech.co.nz

and

https://www.elive.co.nz

 

I really don't give a crap about anything other than how much air the fan moves, and how quietly it does it. I have sensitive hearing, so notice things like loud fans more than most people, so a quiet, powerful overclocked system is my aim. I have a ryzen 1700x, and gtx1070. With my current setup, I'm trying to balance noise and GPU temps, as with the top and rear fans silent, I am struggling to get enough airflow through the case, past the GPU. The CPU is fine, as its water cooled, with the rad on the front intake.

[DannyRyu]

1 hour ago, unknownmiscreant said:

Yeah I saw that video. If I could get noctua, or ek vardar fans where I live from anywhere even half reputable, or without having to pay exorbitant shipping fees, doubling the cost of the fan, I wouldn't be asking this. 

 

However my fan selection is limited to what is available from:

https://www.pbtech.co.nz

and

https://www.elive.co.nz

 

I really don't give a crap about anything other than how much air the fan moves, and how quietly it does it. I have sensitive hearing, so notice things like loud fans more than most people, so a quiet, powerful overclocked system is my aim. I have a ryzen 1700x, and gtx1070. With my current setup, I'm trying to balance noise and GPU temps, as with the top and rear fans silent, I am struggling to get enough airflow through the case, past the GPU. The CPU is fine, as its water cooled, with the rad on the front intake.

8

I see so you are going for low rpm and many fans I guess?

here is a cool website I found.

https://www.quietpc.com/120mmfans

[unknownmiscreant]

4 minutes ago, DannyRyu said:

I see so you are going for low rpm and many fans I guess?

here is a cool website I found.

https://www.quietpc.com/120mmfans

Thankyou, that is a very useful website, however sadly, I cannot purchase any of the fans on there, despite all of them being fans I would buy without hesitation if I could get them.

[thedons1983]

Out of interest, what temps are you seeing on your 1070?  I have a 1060, and it hits the thermal limit (83C) sooner or later every time I play a demanding game.  What's weird is that it still maintains a constant +125 MHz GPU clock overclock all the way through that, and still boosts a bit further too.  According to Precision X anyway, my clocks maintain around 2011 MHz all the way through a gaming session.  I have swapped the cooler it came with though!  So as long as your clock speeds are okay and the cars is not too loud, I wouldn't worry too much.

[DannyRyu]

8 minutes ago, unknownmiscreant said:

Thankyou, that is a very useful website, however sadly, I cannot purchase any of the fans on there, despite all of them being fans I would buy without hesitation if I could get them.

hmm, that's a bummer.

I'm guessing you live in new Zealand because of NZ websites but if you have anybody you know in Australia that can ship stuff to you cheaply that might be your best option.
 

[unknownmiscreant]

16 minutes ago, DannyRyu said:

hmm, that's a bummer.

I'm guessing you live in new Zealand because of NZ websites but if you have anybody you know in Australia that can ship stuff to you cheaply that might be your best option.

Yes I live in NZ, and have no friends in Australia. Theres a standing joke (made by a president a while ago) that New Zealanders who emigrate to OZ are increasing the IQ of both nations.

I have to use freight forwarding services, if I want anything not from the above websites, there are other websites, but they charge extra, and the stuff comes from the same warehouse anyway. The best I could do is send stuff to my grandparents in the UK, and get them to forward it, but they are old, and forgetful, so its always annoying trying to sort that out. I might do that though to try get something noctua, depending on the price. 

26 minutes ago, thedons1983 said:

Out of interest, what temps are you seeing on your 1070?  I have a 1060, and it hits the thermal limit (83C) sooner or later every time I play a demanding game.  What's weird is that it still maintains a constant +125 MHz GPU clock overclock all the way through that, and still boosts a bit further too.  According to Precision X anyway, my clocks maintain around 2011 MHz all the way through a gaming session.  I have swapped the cooler it came with though!  So as long as your clock speeds are okay and the cars is not too loud, I wouldn't worry too much.

Not overclocked, I am seeing around 65C on the 1070. However I plan on doing a fair bit of overclocking, and atm most of the air seems to be being recycled by the card. Very little is making its way out the back of the case. So I want to get the thermals sorted, before starting to try OCing.

[thedons1983]

65C?!  That's an awesome temp to see under a heavy load, so you should have plenty headroom for an overclock.  Any GPU I have owned over the last 6-7 years has run at 80+ no matter which cooler, which case, and which fans, so I really wouldn't worry about it!

[unknownmiscreant]

28 minutes ago, thedons1983 said:

65C?!  That's an awesome temp to see under a heavy load, so you should have plenty headroom for an overclock.  Any GPU I have owned over the last 6-7 years has run at 80+ no matter which cooler, which case, and which fans, so I really wouldn't worry about it!

Oh, okay. My old 1050Ti used to run a 40-45C full load, and not overclcoked, my CPU ran at 40C full load, 60C when overclocked. I guess I'm a bit spoiled. Thanks for the reality check.

[thedons1983]

30 minutes ago, unknownmiscreant said:

Oh, okay. My old 1050Ti used to run a 40-45C full load, and not overclcoked, my CPU ran at 40C full load, 60C when overclocked. I guess I'm a bit spoiled. Thanks for the reality check.

Spoiled indeed as 40-45C under load is ridiculous... Are you sure you don't only play Tetris, because I'm not sure that's even possible with a modern GPU, without water cooling!  Not at full load certainly.  And by full load, I mean running Unigine Heaven or Furmark by the way, and not Minecraft, haha!

[unknownmiscreant]

9 hours ago, thedons1983 said:

Spoiled indeed as 40-45C under load is ridiculous... Are you sure you don't only play Tetris, because I'm not sure that's even possible with a modern GPU, without water cooling!  Not at full load certainly.  And by full load, I mean running Unigine Heaven or Furmark by the way, and not Minecraft, haha!

That was in open air as an eGPU. Fully overclocked. 1911MHz boost clock, +1000MHz mem clock, 99% load in 3d games (far cry 4, rise of the tomb raider, need for speed) with medium-high settings. When inside a case, it rose to around 60C. When running in open air, I had it setup so that no air would be recycled by the card, unlike if it were in a case.

 

I never tried furmark in open air, but heaven had around the same effect on temps as games.

 

Also I don't play tetris, and minecraft is for weebs (does anyone even play it anymore??) The game I have thats easiest to run is GTA San Andreas, but I still end up with 125fps and full load. However I spend the most time playing more recent titles.

[thedons1983]

11 minutes ago, unknownmiscreant said:

That was in open air as an eGPU. Fully overclocked. 1911MHz boost clock, +1000MHz mem clock, 99% load in a (fairly) demanding 3d game with medium-high settings. When inside a case, it went to around 60C.

 

I never tired furmark in open air, but heaven had around the same effect on temps.

External GPU eh?  Loving that, that is now a thing, it's about time.

 

60C in a case is totally fine too by the way (it's actually really really good), so you will genuinely struggle to improve that temp without using liquid cooling.  No fan setup that isn't just way too loud will help with that either.

[unknownmiscreant]

15 minutes ago, thedons1983 said:

External GPU eh?  Loving that, that is now a thing, it's about time.

 

60C in a case is totally fine too by the way (it's actually really really good), so you will genuinely struggle to improve that temp without using liquid cooling.  No fan setup that isn't just way too loud will help with that either.

External GPUs deserve to DIE. They are utterly rubbish. I never managed to get my PC to boot 1st time with it connected, connector instability was a huge issue among other things. Also bandwidth is a huge bottleneck. If you want my advice, spend the money you would've spent on the eGPU enclosure on some used desktop parts. The results will be 100% better. I wish I had done that, rather than sinking a substantial amount of money into a damn enclosure, and then building a desktop within 6 months cos it was soooo terrible.

 

I'm really not sure why there is so much hype about them, as far as I can tell, its an expensive way to bottleneck an expensive GPU with a low bandwidth link and a slow laptop CPU. Any laptops with decent processors like a 7700HQ or 7820HK likely have gtx1060/1070/1080s in them, so there is no point anyway. 

 

That is just my opionion based off my experiences, if you've had different experiences, I'd like to know.

[thedons1983]

7 minutes ago, unknownmiscreant said:

External GPUs deserve to DIE. They are utterly rubbish. I never managed to get my PC to boot 1st time with it connected, connector instability was a huge issue among other things. Also bandwidth is a huge bottleneck. If you want my advice, spend the money you would've spent on the eGPU enclosure on some used desktop parts. The results will be 100% better. I wish I had done that, rather than sinking a substantial amount of money into a damn enclosure, and then building a desktop within 6 months cos it was soooo terrible.

 

I'm really not sure why there is so much hype about them, as far as I can tell, its an expensive way to bottleneck an expensive GPU with a low bandwidth link and a slow laptop CPU. Any laptops with decent processors like a 7700HQ or 7820HK likely have gtx1060/1070/1080s in them, so there is no point anyway. 

 

That is just my opionion based off my experiences, if you've had different experiences, I'd like to know.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there, as the whole idea of an external GPU is pure genius.  It does absolutely need a better, faster interface than even thunderbolt 3 to get over the bottlenecks as you say however.  Better, faster connections will eventually become available (I hope!), so in time they should be viable.  At least that's my hope.  And yes, they are hugely expensive right now too, the Razer Core is an absolute rip off, and I am amazed that they have the balls to release such a compromised (currently) product at such a high price, but then again it's Razer.  Rip-off merchants rivalling Apple, describes Razer to a tee!

 

The thing about laptops with internal GPUs is that they are just compromised rubbish, stupidly expensive, or both.  I personally hate laptops, as I have absolutely no need for a mobile PC, and hate that they are so unbelievably compromised.  If someone has a use for a laptop then fair enough, but for just using at home, they are awful!

[unknownmiscreant]

1 minute ago, thedons1983 said:

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there, as the whole idea of an external GPU is pure genius.  It does absolutely need a better, faster interface than even thunderbolt 3 to get over the bottlenecks as you say however.  Better, faster connections will eventually become available (I hope!), so in time they should be viable.  At least that's my hope.  And yes, they are hugely expensive right now too, the Razer Core is an absolute rip off, and I am amazed that they have the balls to release such a compromised (currently) product at such a high price, but then again it's Razer.  Rip-off merchants rivalling Apple, describes Razer to a tee!

 

The thing about laptops with internal GPUs is that they are just compromised rubbish, stupidly expensive, or both.  I personally hate laptops, as I have absolutely no need for a mobile PC, and hate that they are so unbelievably compromised.  If someone has a use for a laptop then fair enough, but for just using at home, they are awful!

I totally agree, the idea is pure genius, don't get me wrong. But the current implementation is terrible, due to overpricing, and slow connections. Although I am unsure whether the connector stability issues will be solved very easily. Back when I used to have a USB display adapter, it drive me nuts, as whenever I knocked the cable, all my screens would momentarily flash black. If eGPUs become viable I will look into them again, but for now I'm out.

I totally agree with you about the razer core (and razer in general). My eGPU adapter was just a couple of switch mode supplies and through connections, yet they charged me $160US for it. I can't imagine there is very much more than that in the core.

 

I looked into high-end laptops, as I liked the idea, but couldn't justify the price premium, poor battery life, thermal issues, or being the guy walking around with a laptop with snakes/aliens on the back. Also since I rarely make use of a grunty PC on the go due to requiring large monitors, they simply were not worth it for me at least.

 

I did once toy with building a 7700/gtx1070 (back before ryzen) system into a backpack and re-purposing a laptop as a monitor/keyboard/mouse, but couldn't be bothered, due to weight and technical issues.

[unknownmiscreant]

On 8/14/2017 at 10:58 AM, thedons1983 said:

snip

Update about the fan situation:

I have ordered a Fractal GP-12 (I aim to either buy another or a phanteks PH-F120SP after I do some testing with the fractal one) and pair of ML120s. The GP-12 showed up this morning and it is utterly silent, even right next to my ear at 950rpm (that was what the fan header I used defaulted to, I didn't have time to tune anything.) The airflow wasn't amazing, but perfectly adequate and should improve a bit if I get the fan running at full speed.

 

Thanks for all the help, its a pleasure to actually have bought a fan thats worth its price tag.

Hopefully the ML120s will show up today or tomorrow, and I will most likely purchase another GP-12 after a bit more testing of the one I already have.

I have manged to RMA 2 out of the 4 Jetflos I bought, on the grounds of false advertising and dismal performance, and will be able to use the remaining 2 to cool our servers, where noise won't be an issue.

[thedons1983]

I'm really glad to hear that the GP-12 is silent at least, even if airflow isn't amazing.  Hopefully the airflow it does provide is sufficient!  Have you tried running it horizontally yet?

 

I'm just glad that it worked out for you (so far at least).  These things are so subjective after all, so I'm glad that you are happy!  Fingers crossed the MLs prove to be as good quality.

 

I actually just received 2x Be Quiet Pure Wings 2 fans in the post today, and wow am I impressed... But also slightly annoyed!  They sound amazing, so so quiet, even better than my previous Fractal SSR2 fans in fact (so about on par with the Fractal GP's, but slightly cheaper for me here in the UK), but the bloody screws that come with the fans don't fit!  I "made" them fit in the end, and perhaps the intention is that they should self tap, but that was not a good first impression when trying to do a test install.

 

Next is to check that my Nzxt FN V2's can actually start at 5V... I think they will, but who knows! 

[unknownmiscreant]

Just now, thedons1983 said:

snip

Glad life is good at your end of the food chain. Fan screws are a utter nuisance. If you ever have to put a fan screw back into a fan, make sure to turn the screw backwards, until you feel a noticeable click. That way you are reusing the old thread, rather than cutting a new one. If you cut a new thread every time, the hole will eventually be stripped, and mean the fan won't be able to be screwed to anything.

Come to think of it, the only fan screws I have ever found to be decent were the ones on the cooler master jet flo fans. They had threaded metal inserts in the corners, so machine screws could be used. But NEVER EVER buy them (unless you want a jet engine in your pc)

 

I'll let you know when the MLs arrive, and what I think of them. Although based off my experience so far with the fractal ones, I'd say the chances are pretty good. I don't really need much more airflow than I'm getting from the fractal fan, so it will work very well.

 

I haven't encountered the horizontal bearing problem yet, but also I only looked at the fan for 5 minutes before I had to run out of the house to avoid being late.

[thedons1983]

They really are it turns out, indeed the Corsair SP120s were no better either, as the same self tapping thing had to be done, but in to rubber instead.  I'm actually considering double sided tape at this point, just for blooming ease.

 

Yeah, please do, I'd be intrigued to know how they work out, as I'm not sure how great my Bequiet fans are going to work as intakes on an S340 Elite, which is pretty restricted, and might consider a swap.

[unknownmiscreant]

14 minutes ago, thedons1983 said:

snip

Double sided tape would work, but make sure its decent tape. I once tried that  with crap tape. Honestly you're probably better off persevering with the damn screws. Zip ties on the other hand.... I know the pain, I have SP120s that came with my case, where the screws went into plastic. I'll let you know how the MLs get on. Should do ok, as the SP120s do quite well on the front of my corsair 460x, with glass front, dust filter and rad. Although I do also have EK Vardar's to help on the inside, the SP120s do surprisingly well on their own.

[unknownmiscreant]

9 hours ago, thedons1983 said:

They really are it turns out, indeed the Corsair SP120s were no better either, as the same self tapping thing had to be done, but in to rubber instead.  I'm actually considering double sided tape at this point, just for blooming ease.

 

Yeah, please do, I'd be intrigued to know how they work out, as I'm not sure how great my Bequiet fans are going to work as intakes on an S340 Elite, which is pretty restricted, and might consider a swap.

I did some more testing, and found the poor airflow is caused by low RPM. (duh, read on, its more complicated than that.) But  when running the fan at full 12v, it spins up to full 1200RPM, in open air, but when placed with the exhaust side next to a steel grille (or anything steel for that matter) the RPM to drops to 400ish. The same happens with the intake side, but its less noticeable. I thought the connectors or cable were faulty at first.  Would you please be able to verify whether this happens with your one please. 

Thanks

[thedons1983]

2 hours ago, unknownmiscreant said:

I did some more testing, and found the poor airflow is caused by low RPM. (duh, read on, its more complicated than that.) But  when running the fan at full 12v, it spins up to full 1200RPM, in open air, but when placed with the exhaust side next to a steel grille (or anything steel for that matter) the RPM to drops to 400ish. The same happens with the intake side, but its less noticeable. I thought the connectors or cable were faulty at first.  Would you please be able to verify whether this happens with your one please. 

Thanks

That is really odd.  That's with the GP-12 right?  With my SSR2 as an exhaust screwed to the metal grille at the rear of the case, the only thing that affects RPMs is the voltage supplied to the fan.  If I connect it to my MB for example and control it via DC, it does run slightly slower at the top end (maybe 100 RPM less) but definitely does not drop to the level you are describing.  If I run it at 12V direct from my cases fan controller, it runs at max, and gradually slows as you would expect when the voltage reduces to 7V and then 5V.  I'm actually not aware that any fans RPM is affected in any way by where you place it or what it's placed next to.  Something strange is going on.

 

How are you verifying the RPMs by the way?  And how is the fan connected when in the case?  It sounds to me like the fan is not getting the proper voltage for some reason.

[thedons1983]

11 hours ago, unknownmiscreant said:

Double sided tape would work, but make sure its decent tape. I once tried that  with crap tape. Honestly you're probably better off persevering with the damn screws. Zip ties on the other hand.... I know the pain, I have SP120s that came with my case, where the screws went into plastic. I'll let you know how the MLs get on. Should do ok, as the SP120s do quite well on the front of my corsair 460x, with glass front, dust filter and rad. Although I do also have EK Vardar's to help on the inside, the SP120s do surprisingly well on their own.

The SP120s do have good performance, they just sound so terrible though.  The only reason I didn't get a 460X (non RGB) in the end personally, was because I knew I'd have to replace both included fans (AF140s I think), as the out of the box setup looks stupid IMO and I don't like that range of Corsair fans, which ultimately would have meant buying four more fans (3 of them being LED for the front) on top of buying the case.   Also the exhaust on that case is an AF140L I believe, which you can buy for £4... On a £100 case... cheeky sods!

[unknownmiscreant]

10 hours ago, thedons1983 said:

That is really odd.  That's with the GP-12 right?  ...............

It is the GP-12. Its definitely getting 12v, as the fault occurs when connected directly to the motherboard on a PWM header, and when connected to a custom fan splitter I made, that is connected directly to the 12v line of the PSU. The fan cable is not faulty. I ruled that out first, and took the connector apart to make sure it wasn't just a dodgy connection. 

 

I am measuring the RPM using the motherboard fan controller. I have done this using both the direct connection to the board and the fan splitter (it has RPM-pass-through (if you will) to the motherboard.) The RPM measurements are accurate, as the fan speed can also be judged by listening to it and placing a finger in the middle of the blades to slow the fan down.

 

When the fan is placed near any metal parts, a fan grille, the side panel, or heck,even my desk leg, the RPM drops, and if left for an extended period of time, the fan motor warms up noticeably. The fan behaves fine in open air. 

 

The ML120s arrived this morning. They seem remarkably similar to the SP120 RGB fans i have. i didn't have time to test them at anything other than full speed, at which they were rather loud, but they looked pretty promising. I will do some more testing when I get home.

 

10 hours ago, thedons1983 said:

The SP120s do have good performance, they just sound so terrible though...........

I totally get that choice, I like my 460x RGB, but I probably wouldn't buy it again. Its very tight on the inside. Cable management would've been nigh on impossible without a push pull 360 rad to hide cables in the front, and there is no space inside for my water pump, I've had to mount that externally. Luckily my desk hides it, and its really easy to top the loop up.

Corsair are borderline rip-off merchants, (cheeky sods fits them quite well actually.) Most of their stuff is mediocre, and the same price (or more!!) as downright good stuff elsewhere. I've heard a few people say that Corsair is only good value at the high end, that would fit with my experience of them.