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FX 8350 performance issues

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Posted · Original PosterOP

Hello,

 

My friend just upgraded his CPU from an FX 4300 to an FX 8350 and he has perfrormance issues in PUBG, GTA V en BF1.

The CPU is cooled by a Be Quiet Pure Rock and the CPU gets a max temperature of 60C when under load.
His FPS in BF1 are 70FPS but randomly drops to 10 - 15 FPS, even on low settings, and in GTA V he gets 50FPS max with every kind of settings.

 

He has updated his bios to the latest version.

 

His Specs:
CPU: AMD FX 8350

GPU: R7 370 4GB

RAM: 2x4 Corsair Vengeance 1333 DDR3

MOBO: ASRock 970 Pro 3 R2.0


I sexually identify as a Dell Optiplex 755

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what were his fps numbers like with the 4300? because i wouldnt directly stamp those numbers as extremely abnormal.

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If you can get any kind of performance monitoring like task manager or HWMonitor that would give us a better idea of what's bottlenecking, if anything.


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That motherboard has a somewhat undersized VRM (the dc-dc converter which transforms 12v down to 1.3v or whatever the CPU uses).

It can power 125w TDP processors like the FX-83xx series, but it would be pushed hard unless it gets extra cooling. You could say it's a VRM that's "optimized" for 95w TDP or less, with stock coolers that blow air DOWN on the cpu and by design, the air flow would blow sideways over the VRM mosfets as well helping the vrm cool a bit.
 

Using the Pure Rock, there's no air flowing downwards, the air is pushed by the fan through the heatsink blades and then straight out the case, so there's minimal air flow on the VRM to the left of the CPU (between the back connectors and cpu)

 

The VRM may throttle down from time to time if it overheats, forcing the cpu to lower its frequencies for a short period.

 

// edit Asrock is aware of that, they even mention it in the cpu support list (though they went overboard with the red * marks, listing ALL fx-series processors while ignoring the Phenom II x6 processors which also have a 125w TDP : http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/970 Pro3 R2.0/?cat=CPU

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
2 minutes ago, mariushm said:

That motherboard has a somewhat undersized VRM (the dc-dc converter which transforms 12v down to 1.3v or whatever the CPU uses).

It can power 125w TDP processors like the FX-83xx series, but it would be pushed hard unless it gets extra cooling. You could say it's a VRM that's "optimized" for 95w TDP or less, with stock coolers that blow air DOWN on the cpu and by design, the air flow would blow sideways over the VRM mosfets as well.

Using the Pure Rock, there's no air flowing downwards, the air is pushed by the fan through the heatsink blades and then straight out the case, so there's minimal air flow on the VRM to the left of the CPU (between the back connectors and cpu)

 

The VRM may throttle down from time to time if it overheats, forcing the cpu to lower its frequencies for a short period.

I personally do not think that this is the issue, because I have used the same motherboard with the same processor in it and had no issues at all.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
7 minutes ago, manikyath said:

what were his fps numbers like with the 4300? because i wouldnt directly stamp those numbers as extremely abnormal.

GTA V was about 40FPS and BF1 was running around 30FPS with some drops to 20.


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Just now, BadneckRedneck said:

GTA V was about 40FPS and BF1 was running around 30FPS with some drops to 20.

sounds about like what to expect then i guess.

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Just now, BadneckRedneck said:

I personally do not think that this is the issue, because I have used the same motherboard with the same processor in it and had no issues at all.

Could be something as simple as you having AC and keeping your ambient temperature lower, or him having a lousier power supply making the VRM work more.

 

But I agree, it could be OK (not a problem with the vrm and cooling) and then the fault could be in some drivers or some background services (antivirus, windows update, waking suddenly)

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ATM i don't think its the VRM's. VRM overheating issues result in CPU throttle, he would be seeing it a constant lower performance rather then random drops (then again what has been said above GTA V may be worrying). I recommend turning of in bios amd cool and quit all C states and power saving features, in windows set the power plan for best performance and then run the games while monitoring for temps and speeds, if CPU speed drops and it stays dropped for a while then yes i am afraid its a throttle problem. If it happens to work fine then it was just because of the power saving options, but do something about cooling those VRM's because its kind of at its limit and do not OC.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
4 minutes ago, Strike105X said:

ATM i don't think its the VRM's. VRM overheating issues result in CPU throttle, he would be seeing it a constant lower performance rather then random drops (then again what has been said above GTA V may be worrying). I recommend turning of in bios amd cool and quit all C states and power saving features, in windows set the power plan for best performance and then run the games while monitoring for temps and speeds, if CPU speed drops and it stays dropped for a while then yes i am afraid its a throttle problem. If it happens to work fine then it was just because of the power saving options, but do something about cooling those VRM's because its kind of at its limit and do not OC.

I already checked for throttling and the clock speeds stayed at 4GhZ constantly and temps never got above 65C. We haven't changed anything in the BIOS execpt updating and checking if it recognized the CPU.


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Posted · Original PosterOP
10 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Could be something as simple as you having AC and keeping your ambient temperature lower, or him having a lousier power supply making the VRM work more.

 

But I agree, it could be OK (not a problem with the vrm and cooling) and then the fault could be in some drivers or some background services (antivirus, windows update, waking suddenly)

We haven't reinstalled windows yet, and I think that that causes the issues.


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41 minutes ago, BadneckRedneck said:

Hello,

 

My friend just upgraded his CPU from an FX 4300 to an FX 8350 and he has perfrormance issues in PUBG, GTA V en BF1.

The CPU is cooled by a Be Quiet Pure Rock and the CPU gets a max temperature of 60C when under load.
His FPS in BF1 are 70FPS but randomly drops to 10 - 15 FPS, even on low settings, and in GTA V he gets 50FPS max with every kind of settings.

 

He has updated his bios to the latest version.

 

His Specs:
CPU: AMD FX 8350

GPU: R7 370 4GB

RAM: 2x4 Corsair Vengeance 1333 DDR3

MOBO: ASRock 970 Pro 3 R2.0

I've used an FX6300 and ASRock 970 Extreme4, so I know a bit about this combination. Looking at that board, the VRM has no heatsink it seems, could you see how hot they're getting? If they get too hot they will derate and cause the CPU to either go slower or shut off all together

 


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Posted · Original PosterOP
19 hours ago, Lord Nicoll said:

I've used an FX6300 and ASRock 970 Extreme4, so I know a bit about this combination. Looking at that board, the VRM has no heatsink it seems, could you see how hot they're getting? If they get too hot they will derate and cause the CPU to either go slower or shut off all together

 

hV54XXrgQFOu7lB6U1TgPg.png

These are the temps that are showing up after a couple of hours of gaming


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4 hours ago, BadneckRedneck said:

 

These are the temps that are showing up after a couple of hours of gaming

What does the CPU section show?

60C is very high at stock clocks, especially with that cooler, but your screenshot shows a low CPUTIN - too low, I dare say. What is the package temp, and what are the clocks?

 

Also, by "adter a couple hours" you mean while the game is still running, or after quitting the game?

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In terms of GTA V all you can do is to reduce settings which involve shadows and reflections! :)


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On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 4:33 PM, Strike105X said:

ATM i don't think its the VRM's. VRM overheating issues result in CPU throttle, he would be seeing it a constant lower performance rather then random drops (then again what has been said above GTA V may be worrying). I recommend turning of in bios amd cool and quit all C states and power saving features, in windows set the power plan for best performance and then run the games while monitoring for temps and speeds, if CPU speed drops and it stays dropped for a while then yes i am afraid its a throttle problem. If it happens to work fine then it was just because of the power saving options, but do something about cooling those VRM's because its kind of at its limit and do not OC.

It could very well be the VRM temps causing throttling and terrible performance I mean the board doesn't even have a VRM heat-sink and VRM over heating and Piledriver go together like peanut butter and jelly. 

 

Anyways I recommend the user downloads HWINFO and checks temps when he games system-motherboard(typically vrm) should be at 80C or lower at load. 

 

The chip itself should be 70C or below. 

 

 

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I've used this board with the 8350 and the same motherboard and I had issues after water-cooling, while I don't know what the exact issue was, reading what others have said the VRM would make sense, as it would not have got as much cooling as it would have with an air cooler. Could always look into cooling it yourself, perhaps one of them RAM Coolers would spread some cooling to it if it's close enough.

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Also read that this board doesn't even have a sensor for VRM :( so can't tell that way the only way is to run Prime95 for 20min and make sure the CPU stays at a steady 4ghz load

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On 8/12/2017 at 11:41 PM, BadneckRedneck said:

I already checked for throttling and the clock speeds stayed at 4GhZ constantly and temps never got above 65C. We haven't changed anything in the BIOS execpt updating and checking if it recognized the CPU.

Take a look and try with this: http://coderbag.com/Programming-C/CPU-core-parking-manager for some it isn't needed for some its a necessity.... Also even if the clocks seems stable do the tweaks i mentioned, power saving features on AMD can be quite a handful... Also....

 

8 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

What does the CPU section show?

60C is very high at stock clocks, especially with that cooler,

Thanks, i got caught up with other things and forgot about that part, from experience when that happens with a good cooler unless thermal paste hasn't been applied properly its because of the VRM's heating up so much that they affect the CPU.

 

6 hours ago, jdwii said:

It could very well be the VRM temps causing throttling and terrible performance I mean the board doesn't even have a VRM heat-sink and VRM over heating and Piledriver go together like peanut butter and jelly. 

I said "ATM" though in that post if the methods of checking i described where to be followed it could be determined if its VRM related or not. The way he described it didn't point it as an immediate vrm problem but i never rulled it out either, i'm still not sure its a vrm problem at the present time, but with that said even if it isn't right now VRM related, they do need to be cooled for future use or it will affect the stability and longevity of the board.

On 8/12/2017 at 11:30 PM, BadneckRedneck said:

I personally do not think that this is the issue, because I have used the same motherboard with the same processor in it and had no issues at all.

Its good you didn't suffer with it but its not a good pairing, one thing to note is that FX's have a lot of voltage efficiency variations from one cpu to another, it could be that yours is more efficient, unfortunately a lot of FX's tend to suffer from CPU voltage leakage, though its mostly apparent when overclocking or when using subpar mobos. My advice is to at least passively cool them (there are special radiators made just for this available cheaply on ebay and amazon), those high CPU temps with that cooler are definitely a testimony that the VRM's are getting hotter then they normally should.

 

5 hours ago, jdwii said:

Also read that this board doesn't even have a sensor for VRM :( so can't tell that way the only way is to run Prime95 for 20min and make sure the CPU stays at a steady 4ghz load

Very, very, bad idea, you risked frying your mobo and your CPU, you need lighter tests to determine if its indeed a vrm problem, if it is only and only after you made sure the VRM's are properly cooled do you engage in a prime95 test.


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1 hour ago, Strike105X said:

Take a look and try with this: http://coderbag.com/Programming-C/CPU-core-parking-manager for some it isn't needed for some its a necessity.... Also even if the clocks seems stable do the tweaks i mentioned, power saving features on AMD can be quite a handful... Also....

 

Thanks, i got caught up with other things and forgot about that part, from experience when that happens with a good cooler unless thermal paste hasn't been applied properly its because of the VRM's heating up so much that they affect the CPU.

 

I said "ATM" though in that post if the methods of checking i described where to be followed it could be determined if its VRM related or not. The way he described it didn't point it as an immediate vrm problem but i never rulled it out either, i'm still not sure its a vrm problem at the present time, but with that said even if it isn't right now VRM related, they do need to be cooled for future use or it will affect the stability and longevity of the board.

Its good you didn't suffer with it but its not a good pairing, one thing to note is that FX's have a lot of voltage efficiency variations from one cpu to another, it could be that yours is more efficient, unfortunately a lot of FX's tend to suffer from CPU voltage leakage, though its mostly apparent when overclocking or when using subpar mobos. My advice is to at least passively cool them (there are special radiators made just for this available cheaply on ebay and amazon), those high CPU temps with that cooler are definitely a testimony that the VRM's are getting hotter then they normally should.

 

Very, very, bad idea, you risked frying your mobo and your CPU, you need lighter tests to determine if its indeed a vrm problem, if it is only and only after you made sure the VRM's are properly cooled do you engage in a prime95 test.

Ok then so you expect this user to have a infrared gun thermometer? If the board has no VRM sensor I guess this is the only thing to do? Also if its already throttling that means it's already trying to save itself I recommend he looks at his CPU frequency and makes sure it stays at the rated 4ghz speeds. If not his VRM is to limited as it should be since his board doesn't even have a heat-sink for his VRM

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3 hours ago, jdwii said:

Ok then so you expect this user to have a infrared gun thermometer? If the board has no VRM sensor I guess this is the only thing to do? Also if its already throttling that means it's already trying to save itself I recommend he looks at his CPU frequency and makes sure it stays at the rated 4ghz speeds. If not his VRM is to limited as it should be since his board doesn't even have a heat-sink for his VRM

*Sigh*...

 

You don't need an infrared gun or sensors to diagnostic VRM issues, sure they come in handy but you don't need them. Its a very simple procedure:

 

1. You disable all power saving options in bios, including cool and quite and APM, in the rare case the mobo comes with a CPU overheating protection system you dissable that to (more on this in the explanation bellow), then in windows you set your power saving options for high performance.

 

Basically by disabling cool and quite, APM and power saving features features you also dissable any CPU protection and throttling, i also mentioned disabling the cpu overheating protection because that can interfere with the test, and AMD cpu's already come with a build in overheating protection that its hardcoded into the CPU and makes it shut down at 89-90C. Also if your curious about the reasons for that protection being in place it is because from 90C there is a risk that the glue holding the lid to the die will start to melt. Considering there's no voltage bumps and no overclocking it will be no issue even if the FX8350/70 runs hotter then the maximum given by AMD for this tests. This steps however get a bit more complicated when it comes to the FX8300/8320 or the FX9XXX series, so i wont get into that.

 

2.Start testing with either video encoding or games that stress the CPU fully. If the CPU throttles that means there's an issue with the VRM's, either overheating or they can't handle the load. Also If the CPU goes past the recommended threshold recommended by AMD without it being overclocked or overvolted (that is if you don't leave in an area with very high ambient temps) then that also means that the VRM's are getting to hot, even more so when you have a good cooler.

 

Important thing to note here is that i mentioned Video encoding or games (personally i prefer a handbrake encoding test), do not use prime95, prime95 can force the components to go beyond their capabilities and thus there's the risk of a surge that could damage the VRM's, or the CPU or both.

 

Another note i will like to mention is that many mobos do actually seem to have some sensors and checks in place for VRM temps, but for some weird reason they choose to keep it hidden, not accessible in monitoring software. 


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Why are we even arguing this ? it's a 4+1 motherboard, its decent-ish for 4 cores and absolute shit for 6-8 cores. I bet he has everything on Auto in BIOS which means everything is overvolting. Get a better motherboard, or failing that get 2 spot fans on the VRM's and better case ventilation and MAYBE you can run the 8350 properly.

 

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/970 Pro3 R2.0/?cat=Specifications

 

Even says so in the CPU compatibility list, red brand on all FX - "For cooling the CPU and its surrounding components, please install a CPU cooler with a top-down blowing design."

 

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/970 Pro3 R2.0/?cat=CPU


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you could try sticking some little VRM heatsinks on there and see if performance increases. good case airflow wouldn't hurt either... ;)

 

also VRMs usually can get very hot by design. semiconductor parts like those often are fine up to around 110C.

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2 hours ago, Kenrou said:

Why are we even arguing this ? it's a 4+1 motherboard, its decent-ish for 4 cores and absolute shit for 6-8 cores. I bet he has everything on Auto in BIOS which means everything is overvolting. Get a better motherboard, or failing that get 2 spot fans on the VRM's and better case ventilation and MAYBE you can run the 8350 properly.

 

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/970 Pro3 R2.0/?cat=Specifications

 

Even says so in the CPU compatibility list, red brand on all FX - "For cooling the CPU and its surrounding components, please install a CPU cooler with a top-down blowing design."

 

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/970 Pro3 R2.0/?cat=CPU

actually if the VRMs wouldn't be able to handle the load/heat the voltage would be dropping, no matter what the mobo is telling them to do

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