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i7-8700k & Coffee Lake CPUs

2 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

You do realize that this all started a long time ago.  If they release a 6 core mainstream chip by the end of September, it will not have been in response to anything AMD currently did.

If they release a mainstream 6 core CPU at 200 USD, then it will have been because of AMD. Seriously, who wants to buy a quad core CPU at anything above $200 when we've had them for over 10 years?

Computer engineering grad student, cybersecurity researcher, and hobbyist embedded systems developer

 

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Just now, thegreengamers said:

If they release a mainstream 6 core CPU at 200 USD, then it will have been because of AMD. Seriously, who wants to buy a quad core CPU at anything above $200 when we've had them for over 10 years?

 

This I absolutely agree with.  We can thank AMD for a much better priced market for sure.  

 

Now AMD needs to keep this shit up.  They don't need to be a one pump chump with minor improvements in the future.  

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So looks like there are no IPC gains, again... 

That's too bad. Guess I'll wait for Cannonlake unless they delay it again. My i7 3770k is starting to show its age.

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57 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

I can't be the only one who thinks a tri-core chip finally makes sense, right?

If the i7 and i5 are really 6c/12t and 6c/6t, then a quad-core i3 would have more threads than the i5 and a dual-core i3 would be no improvement. Only a 3c/6t i3 can fit in the same product stack.

I'm hopeful. I REALLY want a tri core. 

I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play no games atm & watch anime at 1080p(finally) watch YT and write essays...  nothing, it just sits there collecting dust...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

You're in luck, I found one.

 

https://www.ebay.com/i/172520353742?chn=ps&dispItem=1

 

*just kidding*

It's one i known of for ages, it's just pretty shit and useless now 

I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play no games atm & watch anime at 1080p(finally) watch YT and write essays...  nothing, it just sits there collecting dust...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

I'm hopeful. I REALLY want a tri-core. 

... Why? They make sense in the product stack, but what's so great about tri-cores otherwise?

38 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

Now AMD needs to keep this shit up. They don't need to be a one pump chump with minor improvements in the future.

Well, there are of course the rumors of a 6-core CCX on the next Zen revision. While it's very (very) early and we have no way to be sure, if it is true and they use the same pattern, that would mean R7 getting bumped to 12 cores, along with any other architecture improvements.

It would also mean a 24-core TR and 48-core Epyc. It's unreliable early rumors, but I still get giddy thinking about it.

"Do as I say, not as I do."

-Because you actually care if it makes sense.

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1 minute ago, Dash Lambda said:

... Why? They make sense in the product stack, but what's so great about tri-cores otherwise?

Well, there are of course the rumors of a 6-core CCX on the next Zen revision. While it's very (very) early and we have no way to be sure, if it is true and they use the same pattern, that would mean R7 getting bumped to 12 cores, along with any other architecture improvements.

It would also mean a 24-core TR and 48-core Epyc. It's unreliable early rumors, but I still get giddy thinking about it.

Because there have been like one or two ever released? They are really awesome in my opinion

I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play no games atm & watch anime at 1080p(finally) watch YT and write essays...  nothing, it just sits there collecting dust...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

... Why? They make sense in the product stack, but what's so great about tri-cores otherwise?

Well, there are of course the rumors of a 6-core CCX on the next Zen revision. While it's very (very) early and we have no way to be sure, if it is true and they use the same pattern, that would mean R7 getting bumped to 12 cores, along with any other architecture improvements.

It would also mean a 24-core TR and 48-core Epyc. It's unreliable early rumors, but I still get giddy thinking about it.

 

What I fear is just that.   I would rather see AMD focus on maintaining the core count they have now while focusing on IPC.  More cores is cool, but more stronger cores is much better.  If all they do is keep adding cores with maybe a tiny IPC improvement, that's not going to help them.  By that time, everyone will have realized that all these cores aren't really changing personal computing all that much.  For the most part, single core performance still trumps.  

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Just now, Bananasplit_00 said:

Because there have been like one or two ever released? They are really awesome in my opinion.

They're awesome because... There aren't many of them?

"Do as I say, not as I do."

-Because you actually care if it makes sense.

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1 minute ago, Dash Lambda said:

They're awesome because... There aren't many of them?

They ate awesome because they are rare and I like them. That's about it. They also make for a great in between product between dual and quad-cores

I spent $2500 on building my PC and all i do with it is play no games atm & watch anime at 1080p(finally) watch YT and write essays...  nothing, it just sits there collecting dust...

Builds:

The Toaster Project! Northern Bee!

 

The original LAN PC build log! (Old, dead and replaced by The Toaster Project & 5.0)

Spoiler

"Here is some advice that might have gotten lost somewhere along the way in your life. 

 

#1. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

#2. It's best to keep your mouth shut; and appear to be stupid, rather than open it and remove all doubt.

#3. There is nothing "wrong" with being wrong. Learning from a mistake can be more valuable than not making one in the first place.

 

Follow these simple rules in life, and I promise you, things magically get easier. " - MageTank 31-10-2016

 

 

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It might be better than an R5 , but if the price of the R7 is lower than that ... it doesn't really matter... 

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That's the old CPU-Z Benchmark! There's no way that one Core i7 could beat two higher-end Xeon E5's!

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15 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

What I fear is just that. I would rather see AMD focus on maintaining the core count they have now while focusing on IPC. More cores is cool, but more stronger cores is much better. If all they do is keep adding cores with maybe a tiny IPC improvement, that's not going to help them. By that time, everyone will have realized that all these cores aren't really changing personal computing all that much. For the most part, single core performance still trumps.  

I absolutely expect them to improve per-core performance, clocks, fabric speed, RAM support, and even their already great efficiency with later revisions. It's just that all that stuff will be relatively minor past this point, since AMD isn't actually very far behind Intel. Most of their disadvantages shouldn't even be very difficult to remedy, by my understanding. So the most exciting thing they can do is another jump in cores.

If they do jump to 6 cores per CCX, though, I can't see them going further any time soon.

"Do as I say, not as I do."

-Because you actually care if it makes sense.

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17 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

I absolutely expect them to improve per-core performance, clocks, fabric speed, RAM support, and even their already great efficiency with later revisions. It's just that all that stuff will be relatively minor past this point, since AMD isn't actually very far behind Intel. Most of their disadvantages shouldn't even be very difficult to remedy, by my understanding. So the most exciting thing they can do is another jump in cores.

If they do jump to 6 cores per CCX, though, I can't see them going further any time soon.

 

AMD is very far behind Intel in core strength when you consider that they can only come close up to 4 GHz or stock speeds.  After that, they are nowhere in the same ballpark.  They are also very far behind in IMC performance, to include RAM support.  As an example of this, an overclocked Ryzen single core score in Cinebench R15 averages 155cb to just over 160cb.

 

An overclocked 7700k and even a Skylake-X chip can do 220+ in the same test.  Much stronger cores.  Fabric ain't going to fix this.  They need to improve IPC.

 

An AMD chip is pretty much pushed to its limits from the factory.  An Intel chip has a pretty fair bit of headroom left in it.

 

Assuming that they can fix these issues by the next release, we could assume that Intel's 10nm is going to take yet another jump forward.

 

Right now, Intel can afford to do shit like just add 2 more cores to a 7700k because they know that AMD hasn't actually caught up yet.  They are close, but not there yet.  

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Just now, done12many2 said:

 

AMD is very far behind Intel in core strength when you consider that they can only come close up to 4 GHz.  After that, they are nowhere in the same ballpark.  They are also very far behind in IMC performance, to include RAM support.  As an example of this, an overclocked Ryzen single core score in Cinebench R15 averages 155cb to just over 160cb.

 An overclocked 7700k and even a Skylake-X chip can do 220+ in the same test.  Much stronger cores.  Fabric ain't going to fix this.  They need to improve IPC.

 

Assuming that they can fix these issues by the next release, we could assume that Intel's 10nm is going to take yet another jump forward.

 

Right now, Intel can afford to do shit like just add 2 more cores to a 7700k because they know that AMD hasn't actually caught up yet.  They are close, but not there yet.  

Intel has a better microarchitecture than AMD does. Intel's cores are much faster and optimized than AMD's. However, Intel needs to work on lowering prices to compete with AMD.

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I could be wring here, but wouldn't the 4 core 8 thread (which I doubt is real) with it's extra 2 threads be better than the 6 core 6 thread i5 in multi threaded tasks or have I got that wrong?

The owner of "too many" computers, called

The Lord of all Toasters (1920X 1080ti 32GB)

The Toasted Controller (i5 4670, R9 380, 24GB)

The Semi Portable Toastie machine (i7 3612QM (was an i3) intel HD 4000 16GB)'

Bread and Butter Pudding (i7 7700HQ, 1050ti, 16GB)

Pinoutbutter Sandwhich (raspberry pi 3 B)

The Portable Slice of Bread (N270, HAHAHA, 2GB)

Muffinator (C2D E6600, Geforce 8400, 6GB, 8X2TB HDD)

Toastbuster (WIP, should be cool)

loaf and let dough (A printer that doesn't print black ink)

The Cheese Toastie (C2D (of some sort), GTX 760, 3GB, win XP gaming machine)

The Toaster (C2D, intel HD, 4GB, 2X1TB NAS)

Matter of Loaf and death (some old shitty AMD laptop)

windybread (4X E5470, intel HD, 32GB ECC) (use coming soon, maybe)

And more, several more

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Just now, TheCherryKing said:

Intel has a better microarchitecture than AMD does. Intel's cores are much faster and optimized than AMD's. However, Intel needs to work on lowering prices to compete with AMD.

 

Absolutely.  AMD has definitely help with reshaping the market as a great deal of people are willing to accept weaker cores in favor of better pricing.  

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Just now, grimreeper132 said:

I could be wring here, but wouldn't the 4 core 8 thread (which I doubt is real) with it's extra 2 threads be better than the 6 core 6 thread i5 in multi threaded tasks or have I got that wrong?

It's hard to tell. It depends whether applications favor physical cores or logical cores.

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Just now, grimreeper132 said:

I could be wring here, but wouldn't the 4 core 8 thread (which I doubt is real) with it's extra 2 threads be better than the 6 core 6 thread i5 or have I got that wrong?

 

Not really.  Real cores are stronger than threads so a 6c/6t would still generally outperform a 4c/8t, but there are times when it will be close. 

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Just now, done12many2 said:

 

Not really.  Real cores are stronger than threads so a 6c/6t would still generally outperform a 4c/8t, but there are times when it will be close. 

fair enough

The owner of "too many" computers, called

The Lord of all Toasters (1920X 1080ti 32GB)

The Toasted Controller (i5 4670, R9 380, 24GB)

The Semi Portable Toastie machine (i7 3612QM (was an i3) intel HD 4000 16GB)'

Bread and Butter Pudding (i7 7700HQ, 1050ti, 16GB)

Pinoutbutter Sandwhich (raspberry pi 3 B)

The Portable Slice of Bread (N270, HAHAHA, 2GB)

Muffinator (C2D E6600, Geforce 8400, 6GB, 8X2TB HDD)

Toastbuster (WIP, should be cool)

loaf and let dough (A printer that doesn't print black ink)

The Cheese Toastie (C2D (of some sort), GTX 760, 3GB, win XP gaming machine)

The Toaster (C2D, intel HD, 4GB, 2X1TB NAS)

Matter of Loaf and death (some old shitty AMD laptop)

windybread (4X E5470, intel HD, 32GB ECC) (use coming soon, maybe)

And more, several more

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Just now, grimreeper132 said:

fair enough

 

You weren't wrong though.  It depends is the best answer. 

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Just now, done12many2 said:

 

You weren't wrong though.  It depends is the best answer. 

aye that is possibly true, we will need to wait and see I suppose, but the 4 core 8 thread still makes no sense as I doubt will be a thing, especially as an i3, i5 maybe, not i3 though, cause AMD, who have entirely been about P/P and cores hasn't done it, and I doubt intel of all company would try and under cut AMD in cores, or P/P and more go for preformance

The owner of "too many" computers, called

The Lord of all Toasters (1920X 1080ti 32GB)

The Toasted Controller (i5 4670, R9 380, 24GB)

The Semi Portable Toastie machine (i7 3612QM (was an i3) intel HD 4000 16GB)'

Bread and Butter Pudding (i7 7700HQ, 1050ti, 16GB)

Pinoutbutter Sandwhich (raspberry pi 3 B)

The Portable Slice of Bread (N270, HAHAHA, 2GB)

Muffinator (C2D E6600, Geforce 8400, 6GB, 8X2TB HDD)

Toastbuster (WIP, should be cool)

loaf and let dough (A printer that doesn't print black ink)

The Cheese Toastie (C2D (of some sort), GTX 760, 3GB, win XP gaming machine)

The Toaster (C2D, intel HD, 4GB, 2X1TB NAS)

Matter of Loaf and death (some old shitty AMD laptop)

windybread (4X E5470, intel HD, 32GB ECC) (use coming soon, maybe)

And more, several more

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