Consumer Reports flips its recommendation for Microsoft Surface laptops/tablets due to breakage rates.

[Nicnac]

2 minutes ago, themctipers said:

before i really wanted a macbook

 

then i started to watch louis, oh god

Its a lot about how u treat ur stuff. I have mine for 5 years now and it's still going strong. Never had an issue with it. 

[themctipers]

Just now, Nicnac said:

Its a lot about how u treat ur stuff. I have mine for 5 years now and it's still going strong. Never had an issue with it. 

im using a core duo laptop (not core 2 duo, core duo, 32 bit) from 2006 and its working fine

no problems at all, upgraded ram from 512 -> 3.5gb and hdd to ssd 

[LAwLz]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Wouldn't it be nice if they shared their metric on what constitutes a freeze and how it is reported.   For all we know they might be counting a screen blank when a new app loads as freezing.

Again, that should affect all brands equally since we are dealing with such a huge number of users and devices.

I doubt that a statistically significant of Surface users are more likely to count an app loading as a "freeze" than for example a HP laptop user.

 

Or maybe you're saying Surface owners are on average less tech-savvy (or just dumber in general) than people who own other brands of devices?

[Nicnac]

Just now, themctipers said:

im using a core duo laptop (not core 2 duo, core duo, 32 bit) from 2006 and its working fine

no problems at all, upgraded ram from 512 -> 3.5gb and hdd to ssd 

Gonna replace the hdd in mine for an ssd around Christmas this year. Just in case I break something... lol

[themctipers]

Just now, Nicnac said:

Gonna replace the hdd in mine for an ssd around Christmas this year. Just in case I break something... lol

i also replaced the wifi card from wireless g to .. better wireless g.

[Nicnac]

Just now, themctipers said:

i also replaced the wifi card from wireless g to .. better wireless g.

Yea that's where my upgrade path ends lol ^^ 

[themctipers]

Just now, Nicnac said:

Yea that's where my upgrade path ends lol ^^ 

my next upgrade is a ultra shit or m3 covfefe lake laptop. ultra shit standing for those disgusting u series processors (actually right now im using an i5 7200u because i wanted to try this laptop out and it can do 4k 30fps youtube hm) 

[Vode]

8 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Apple without the build quality?

Apple's laptops actually have had a lot of problems really. Just looking at the last 10 years there seems to be a flaw with pretty much every one of them. From flimsy hinges, over fried charger circuits to overheating GPUs. Major concerns for products that expensive...

 

The MBP from 2013 seems to be an exception.

[mr moose]

18 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Again, that should affect all brands equally since we are dealing with such a huge number of users and devices.

I doubt that a statistically significant of Surface users are more likely to count an app loading as a "freeze" than for example a HP laptop user.

 

Or maybe you're saying Surface owners are on average less tech-savvy (or just dumber in general) than people who own other brands of devices?

 

Not looking for things that might separate surface from other devices, just exploring what metric they have used and throwing some thoughts around as to what some people might consider a freeze, given it isn't qualified in the article.  In fact they really don't qualify anything in the article other than to claim 25% failure rate and 90,000+ user database.  But god knows how many different devices that actually represents, I mean it could be 89,998 HP, lenovo, acer and asus laptops and 10 surface pro's.

 

 

[Jito463]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Or maybe you're saying Surface owners are on average less tech-savvy (or just dumber in general) than people who own other brands of devices?

Or perhaps that people who respond to CR surveys are?  Not saying they are, just offering a possible alternative.

[LAwLz]

13 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Or perhaps that people who respond to CR surveys are?  Not saying they are, just offering a possible alternative.

Maybe, but that would not explain the difference in reported freezes and unexpected restarts.

 

If CR collected data on over 90,000 laptop and tablet owners and found that let's say 25% of Surface owners said they had issues, while 5% (made up number) of Dell owners had the same issues then the difference is either with the hardware, or the type of person who buys said hardware. It is not in the methodology of collecting data because that stays the same between the two brands.

[Jito463]

34 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Maybe, but that would not explain the difference in reported freezes and unexpected restarts.

I can't tell you how many times people bring a computer to us because it's "locking up", only to find that they've allowed 10 gazillion (possibly overestimated) crap programs to install adware/spyware on their system.  Or that they didn't like the AV we loaded on there, so they decided to install another one (or two, just for good measure) without removing the original one.  Sometimes it's the hardware, but often it's PEBKAC^*, and that can vary wildly from user to user.

 

^{_{*Problem exists between keyboard and chair}}

[LAwLz]

7 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

I can't tell you how many times people bring a computer to us because it's "locking up", only to find that they've allowed 10 gazillion (possibly overestimated) crap programs to install adware/spyware on their system.  Or that they didn't like the AV we loaded on there, so they decided to install another one (or two, just for good measure) without removing the original one.  Sometimes it's the hardware, but often it's PEBKAC^*, and that can vary wildly from user to user.

 

^{_{*Problem exists between keyboard and chair}}

Again, that will happen to HP and Dell owners too, and it will happen a statistically equal amount of times unless you say that Surface owners are more likely (and thus more technologically illiterate) than the average laptop buyer.

 

The difference in "reliability" reported by CR can only be explained by either the Surface owners being more technologically illiterate, or the hardware actually being less reliable.

I can't think of any other explanation. "People are dumb" does not explain it because if you make that generalization for Surface owners then you also have to do it for Dell owners, or else you are saying Surface owners are stupider.

[jagdtigger]

5 hours ago, themctipers said:

my next upgrade is a ultra shit or m3 covfefe lake laptop. ultra shit standing for those disgusting u series processors (actually right now im using an i5 7200u because i wanted to try this laptop out and it can do 4k 30fps youtube hm) 

That thing is garbage, my 4+ years dell with its 3630QM will wash the floor up with it... Top it off it has a good cooling so it wont throttle into oblivion like nowadays laptops.

[FPSwithaWacomTablet]

18 hours ago, Kek Ops said:

as Apple's Macbook & possibly iPad lineup may start to appeal more due to their better lifespan & quality control. 

Louis Rossmann would like to have a word with you...

 

 

/s

[Fetzie]

8 hours ago, themctipers said:

before i really wanted a macbook

 

then i started to watch louis, oh god

Eh, you get fucked over either way tbh. You just have to find the compromise that works least badly for you.

[TacoSenpai]

I mean...these things tend to get pretty damn hot right?

[themctipers]

6 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

That thing is garbage, my 4+ years dell with its 3630QM will wash the floor up with it... Top it off it has a good cooling so it wont throttle into oblivion like nowadays laptops.

no fucking shit it is garbage, you're comparing a much more expensive true quad core laptop against a ultrabook

 

its like saying a 2700k will destroy a g3258 in gaming , no fucking shit

[themctipers]

3 hours ago, Fetzie said:

Eh, you get fucked over either way tbh. You just have to find the compromise that works least badly for you.

ultrabook that has IO and good battery, and preferrably with a actual U CPU and not a m3 (had a 7y30 before, lagged at 1080p 30fps youtube, using a 7200u and it can do 4k 30fps youtube)

[Bananasplit_00]

12 hours ago, themctipers said:

my next upgrade is a ultra shit or m3 covfefe lake laptop. ultra shit standing for those disgusting u series processors (actually right now im using an i5 7200u because i wanted to try this laptop out and it can do 4k 30fps youtube hm) 

You say the u series is shit while my 6200u is chugging along in even gaming just "fine". (used to play Paladins maxed out, the HiRez said FU and now I can barely play it at 900p lowest ). Does have a dedicated GPU in class with a GTX 660M that has quite literally 0 documentation or benchmarks, not even the AMD driver knows what it is also hate it because 15.6" is too big for something you carry all day and pull out of your bag every hour 

[themctipers]

Just now, Bananasplit_00 said:

You say the u series is shit while my 6200u is chugging along in even gaming just "fine". (used to play Paladins maxed out, the HiRez said FU and now I can barely play it at 900p lowest ). Does have a dedicated GPU in class with a GTX 660M that has quite literally 0 documentation or benchmarks, not even the AMD driver knows what it is also hate it because 15.6" is too big for something you carry all day and pull out of your bag every hour 

it is shit though

not a real quad core in a laptop, mine has no GPU so im stuck with iGPU and the iGPU sure is shit! 

[Jito463]

7 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Again, that will happen to HP and Dell owners too, and it will happen a statistically equal amount of times unless you say that Surface owners are more likely (and thus more technologically illiterate) than the average laptop buyer.

 

The difference in "reliability" reported by CR can only be explained by either the Surface owners being more technologically illiterate, or the hardware actually being less reliable.

I can't think of any other explanation. "People are dumb" does not explain it because if you make that generalization for Surface owners then you also have to do it for Dell owners, or else you are saying Surface owners are stupider.

That's actually the point I was making, that it's likely not because of the hardware but the user.  Obviously I didn't make that as clear as I intended, though.  And no, it makes no difference whether they use a Surface or any other model.

[Bananasplit_00]

3 minutes ago, themctipers said:

it is shit though

not a real quad core in a laptop, mine has no GPU so im stuck with iGPU and the iGPU sure is shit! 

The GPU in mine is deactivated 99% of the time, only heavy 3D when plugged in or specific applications make it active, the IGPU is plenty for 80 chrome tabs, YouTube, Twitch and so on

[LAwLz]

8 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

That's actually the point I was making, that it's likely not because of the hardware but the user.  Obviously I didn't make that as clear as I intended, though.  And no, it makes no difference whether they use a Surface or any other model.

But... That does not make any sense.

Again, if it was because of users then the same number of users would be reporting issues with other brands too. The only way you can blame it on users is if you say that Surface owners are more likely to perceive something like an app loading as a freeze (that is to say, they are less tech-literate).

 

CR has a pool of ~90K devices and they know how many users have reported issues with them.

Made up numbers time!

Out of all the HP owners in that pool of over 90,000 users, 5% has reported issues within the first 2 years of owning the device.

During the same time period, 7% of Dell owners reported issues.

But 25% of Surface owners reported issues.

Made up numbers time over!

 

That's why the Surface line got the recommendation revoked. Because a significantly higher number of users complained about issues compared to other brands.

You can not say that this is because users are stupid and don't know what they are doing, because that will also apply to Dell and HP owners by an equal amount.

The only way the number of users who has PEBCAK issues would influence the Surface line in this way would be if Surface users were on average less tech-literate than Dell and HP owners.

 

The other alternative is that the Surface line in fact does have more issues than other brands, which I do not find hard to believe.

[mr moose]

This should put things into perspective"

 

https://www.squaretrade.com/laptop-reliability-1109/

 

If you look at the PDF report.    It is common for all laptops to experience 31% failure rate within  3 years.  With apple being right in the middle. 

 

It would appear netbooks are more likely to fail than laptops, indicating why the surface might well be over represented if it is compared to a higher number of laptops.  But even the figure of 25% (if true) is not out of the ordinary for that type of device.