[Headphones] I am lost - Need Help (Budget: $1000)

[Dysanix]

Hello everyone,

I am very new to these forums, and I am looking for some advice. After doing a month of research and trying multiple headphones in real-life, and expecting that research would make me feel more informed and decisive... I am now starting to realize more and more that the opposite is very true. Something that seemed simple ("I just want the best"), has become extraordinarily complicated and feels like every decision has it's major drawbacks and compromises no matter how much money you are willing to spend. I truly hope these forums and everyone in here can help me out so my head can finally be at rest and my heart at peace with any purchase I make.

Basically; I am in the market for a new pair of cans. My budget is ~€850 (or $1000), but I can go a little higher if the headphones are truly amazing. This is what I want to use them for:

Music production:
I mainly produce drum and bass, hip-hop and classical music.
Bass: I am looking for headphones that give a very accurate representation of bass without drowning out the mids and highs (so it shouldn't be pounding, just very accurate, punchy, fast and full of detail). That would make my life a lot easier when it comes to texturing bass and kicks.
Mids: The mids need to be full and rich for things like guitars, pads and vocals, but in a very neutral, natural and true-to-recording way (nothing artificial).
Highs: The highs need to be sparkly, deep and realistic, especially for pianos, violins and hihats.
Soundstage: I recently tried the HD650's, and their main drawback for me was the absolute lack of a soundstage. I had my eyes on the HD800, but I am scared that their soundstage is too artifical and things will sound distant even if they are not meant to (I am not sure if this is true, though). I am looking for a wide soundstage that is true to how things are recorded and how I composite things. I want to be able to place things very close, very far and anything in between those two extremes.

Music listening:
My music taste is all over the place, here are the genres I listen to and example artists;
Rock: Queen, Led Zeppelin, Nirvana, Europe, Tame Impala.
Pop: Michael Jackson, Bruno Mars.
EDM: KOAN Sound, Culprate, Camo & Krooked.
Hip-Hop: Eminem, Shahmen.
Trance: Infected Mushroom.
Jazz: Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Alicia Keys.
Classical: Chopin, Bach.

Futher listening: I will also enjoy movies on these, play games and make Skype/Discord calls using an external studio microphone.

I am able to get slightly rough HD800's for €650 (or $762).
Do you think the HD800's paired with the correct amp and some EQ would give me what I need, or are there better options out there?

Thanks so much in advance!!

Sincerely,
Dysanix

[KaminKevCrew]

I'd say that the sound stage is a little too extreme on the HD800. Honestly, why not go for one of the headphones that are actually designed for audio production? Something like the Sony MDR CD900ST? I know they're only about $200, but they're absolutely excellent for audio production.

 

Currently, my personal favorite headphones for everything are the Audio Technica ATH A1000Z. (Yes, I even like them more than things like the HD800, Audeze LCD-3, etc. etc.) They might be worth checking out. I would personally use them for audio production very happily. Plus (at least for me) they're extremely comfortable; I wear them for hours at a time.

 

It might be worth considering getting a few mid-range headphones instead of getting some TOTL headphone, as your production habits are on opposite ends of the spectrum. It might be better to get a few headphones that can give you multiple perspectives, rather than something that will leave you stuck with one sound signature.

[SSL]

9 hours ago, Dysanix said:

Music production:

 

Get quality monitors (i.e. speakers). Headphones are not accurate enough for serious sound production and probably never will be. JBL LSR305 at minimum and even then these are extreme budget, though you get a lot of performance per dollar. Some (used) Genelecs would be a significant step up in performance and price.

 

9 hours ago, Dysanix said:

absolute lack of a soundstage

 

Well, yes and no. Yes in that headphones don't have real soundstage period, no in that the HD 650 does not have a sense of space at all. If the headphones were new, it could be that the pads were not broken in. If not, then it was an amp/source problem. HD 650 is more closed in for sure, but it sounds dead inside with pleb-fi source gear.

 

9 hours ago, Dysanix said:

I am able to get slightly rough HD800's for €650 (or $762).

 

HD 800 needs careful selection of source components, EQ, and mods, and even then may not be suitable to all tastes or genres. They are also not strictly "accurate" throughout the frequency range, even compared to something less expensive like the HD 600. $1000 probably isn't enough to build a proper system around them.

 

9 hours ago, Dysanix said:

Something that seemed simple ("I just want the best")

 

No such thing with headphones. Look to professional studio monitors if you don't want to wallow in headphone purgatory.

[KaminKevCrew]

7 minutes ago, SSL said:

headphone purgatory.

hehehe

[Dysanix]

1 hour ago, KaminKevCrew said:

I'd say that the sound stage is a little too extreme on the HD800. Honestly, why not go for one of the headphones that are actually designed for audio production? Something like the Sony MDR CD900ST? I know they're only about $200, but they're absolutely excellent for audio production.

 

Currently, my personal favorite headphones for everything are the Audio Technica ATH A1000Z. (Yes, I even like them more than things like the HD800, Audeze LCD-3, etc. etc.) They might be worth checking out. I would personally use them for audio production very happily. Plus (at least for me) they're extremely comfortable; I wear them for hours at a time.

 

It might be worth considering getting a few mid-range headphones instead of getting some TOTL headphone, as your production habits are on opposite ends of the spectrum. It might be better to get a few headphones that can give you multiple perspectives, rather than something that will leave you stuck with one sound signature.

Thank you for your reply. I have to say the HD800's appeal to me, because a lot of people say they can be EQ'd to sound more fun (more bass, less treble), but the imaging and the soundstage are amazing. One thing that concerns me is I'm not sure if sound can come up-close and intimate with me, or if it's permanently locked a few meters away... and other thing I am scared for is if it won't have enough sub-bass and not rich enough mids, but I was thinking of using some modding to help this. I don't know.. this is hard.

 

1 hour ago, SSL said:

[...]

Get quality monitors (i.e. speakers). Headphones are not accurate enough for serious sound production and probably never will be. JBL LSR305 at minimum and even then these are extreme budget, though you get a lot of performance per dollar. Some (used) Genelecs would be a significant step up in performance and price.

 

[...]

Well, yes and no. Yes in that headphones don't have real soundstage period, no in that the HD 650 does not have a sense of space at all. If the headphones were new, it could be that the pads were not broken in. If not, then it was an amp/source problem. HD 650 is more closed in for sure, but it sounds dead inside with pleb-fi source gear.

 

[...]

HD 800 needs careful selection of source components, EQ, and mods, and even then may not be suitable to all tastes or genres. They are also not strictly "accurate" throughout the frequency range, even compared to something less expensive like the HD 600. $1000 probably isn't enough to build a proper system around them.

 

[...]

No such thing with headphones. Look to professional studio monitors if you don't want to wallow in headphone purgatory.

I personally definitely prefer headphones. You can move them around easily to a friends' house together and the neighbors won't be bothered by my constant music. Also, I like the isolated experience it offers; it's only me and the music.

 

Personally I am planning on using the NuPrime uDSD as DAC, and the Valhalla 2 with different tubes as Amplifier. Contrary to most audiophiles and most people on Head-Fi, I have a feeling you don't need thousands of dollars to drive the HD800's, or other Planar headphones... because after a while the diminishing returns become so big it's not even worth the effort. You're going to spend an extra $100 for every extra 1% of improvement.

 

Another headphone I can buy is the HD800S, what is your opinion on that considering the things I produce? Or MrSpeakers Alpha Prime.

[KaminKevCrew]

1 minute ago, Dysanix said:

Thank you for your reply. I have to say the HD800's appeal to me, because a lot of people say they can be EQ'd to sound more fun (more bass, less treble), but the imaging and the soundstage are amazing. One thing that concerns me is I'm not sure if sound can come up-close and intimate with me, or if it's permanently locked a few meters away... and other thing I am scared for is if it won't have enough sub-bass, but I was thinking of using some modding to help this. I don't know.. this is hard.

I don't think there's any amount of modding you can do to the HD800 that will give you any meaningful amount of sub-bass (same goes for the HD800S.) A friend of mine let me borrow their HD800 for about a month a while ago, and I found that they could be plenty intimate for vocals, though I have to admit, the gear I was using at the time was not particularly amazing (First Gen Schiit Asgard, and Modi 2 Uber/First Gen Vali).

1 minute ago, Dysanix said:

I personally definitely prefer headphones. You can move them around easily to a friends' house together and the neighbors won't be bothered by my constant music. Also, I like the isolated experience it offers; it's only me and the music.

 

Personally I am planning on using the NuPrime uDSD as DAC, and the Valhalla 2 with different tubes as Amplifier. Contrary to most audiophiles and most people on Head-Fi, I have a feeling you don't need thousands of dollars to drive the HD800's, or other Planar headphones... because after a while the diminishing returns become so big it's not even worth the effort. You're going to spend an extra $100 for every extra 1% of improvement.

 

Another headphone I can buy is the HD800S, what is your opinion on that considering the things I produce?

The Valhalla 2 would likely be a very good amp to pair with the HD800, particularly if you don't mind rolling some tubes to get the sound you want.

[elira]

5 hours ago, Dysanix said:

I personally definitely prefer headphones. You can move them around easily to a friends' house together and the neighbors won't be bothered by my constant music. Also, I like the isolated experience it offers; it's only me and the music.

You need closed back headphones, otherwise people around you will hear what you are hearing, or you'll be able to hear most of the things that happen around you, or both.

[FloRolf]

Maybe look into the Mr Speakers Aeon? I personally haven't heard them yet but:

 

[SSL]

15 hours ago, Dysanix said:

I personally definitely prefer headphones.

 

It has nothing to do with your personal preferences. Monitors are used for music production, at least as far as quality is a concern. If quality isn't a concern, then just get a headphone that appeals for music listening and disregard the requirements for music production.

 

15 hours ago, Dysanix said:

Contrary to most audiophiles and most people on Head-Fi, I have a feeling you don't need thousands of dollars to drive the HD800's

 

If you know it all, why ask for help? But in any case, it isn't about spending thousands. It's about careful matching of components to get good sound, or at very least the sound you want. Valhalla 2 is a decent choice for the HD 800 if you put in the effort to get the right tubes. I have no idea about the nuprime. 

 

16 hours ago, Dysanix said:

You're going to spend an extra $100 for every extra 1% of improvement.

 

Are you? That's a linear scaling, so not really that bad.

[KaminKevCrew]

11 hours ago, elira said:

You need closed back headphones, otherwise people around you will hear what you are hearing, or you'll be able to hear most of the things that happen around you, or both.

Considering that op is looking at hd800's, I don't think other people are a concern.

[Cookybiscuit]

17 hours ago, Dysanix said:

Contrary to most audiophiles and most people on Head-Fi, I have a feeling you don't need thousands of dollars to drive the HD800's, or other Planar headphones... because after a while the diminishing returns become so big it's not even worth the effort. You're going to spend an extra $100 for every extra 1% of improvement.

I don't think you do either, I run my HD800 off my motherboard just to annoy people when they ask what my source is, they still sound great to me :^)