Disney has been sued for spying on Children through Games & Apps

[Tech_Dreamer]

Bet they'd try to bribe the Judge(s) to a Lifetime free anywhere access to Disney land with black tickets .

[Ryujin2003]

20 minutes ago, Tech_Dreamer said:

Bet they'd try to bride the Judge(s) to a Lifetime free anywhere access to Disney land with black tickets .

This is America, we don't generally do arranged or contract marriages.... But if it included tickets.. /s, sorry.

 

No, I don't think Disney would do any of that. As @AluminiumTech stated, if it was 3rd party contract that generated the games, they would most likely be held in breach of privacy and contract arrangements, and they would then become part of the lawsuit. Disney is the face of the apps, but if they didn't generate nor receive any of the obtained personal information as well as any revenue generated from selling this data, then I do not think Disney can be held liable. The responsibility would then fall to the 3rd party contractors. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think blaming Disney immediately as some Stalin Era company is the correct way to go about it either (not specifically directed to you). There is additional information required, such as the contract and it's wording.

 

If anything, anyone working for any of the contracted companies will likely be banned from future work and visits to any theme park.

[Sniperfox47]

1 hour ago, Ryujin2003 said:

So.... I'm a parent. My kids had a Kindle with games. But can't install games without permission from my account. Even so, if he had a game that collected data, it would be my data. Why? Because my kid is 7, doesn't have an email address, doesn't have his own Prime membership .. and so on. Any data collected on the device is essentially my data because the tablet is registered to me, tied to my Prime account. I'm not stupid enough to put my child's info on the internet. I ruin his life enough, he can ruin his digital Life when he is older.

 

I'm tired of parents using laziness as an acceptable reason to not learn about the technology their children use. It's crazy. Be educated and be a good parent. This bullshit is what happens when you babysit your children with technology.

 

Any electronic device should be registered to the parent. So it's the parents information being used for advertisements. And as for FTP content... I've said it a thousand times. Nothing is "free" on the internet.

 

Also, did Disney create these games, or give licensing permission to 3rd party companies to create these games?

(I'm not a laywer. This is not legal advice.)

Except the usage statistics on that game are the child's statistics, and when they collect those statistics and use those statistics to target ads -regardless of whether it's in that game or to your account in general-, to the child or even to you, that is a misuse of the child's data.

 

Data doesn't include just things like name and phone number. Usage statistics are included in that.

 

And even just with *your* information, it's not hard to de-anonymise your child's information...

[Ryujin2003]

Just now, Sniperfox47 said:

(I'm not a laywer. This is not legal advice.)

Except the usage statistics on that game are the child's statistics, and when they collect those statistics and use those statistics to target ads -regardless of whether it's in that game or to your account in general-, to the child or even to you, that is a misuse of the child's data.

 

Data doesn't include just things like name and phone number. Usage statistics are included in that.

 

And even just with *your* information, it's not hard to de-anonymise your child's information...

I know there is more to data collected than phone number, carrier, name, accounts, etc.

 

So... Then why don't people flip the hell out when Apple and Google collect data from devices that their children are using? Or the parent owned device that they download games for a child? It's the same thing. (And I'm not a lawyer either)

 

Every app you download is in one way or another collecting data from you. Whether its to improve the product or to make money on advertisement doesn't matter. Data is still being collected. If I download Steam games for my child, and Steam is collecting data for game statics and such... Are they collecting my data? Or indirectly my child's data? My son has education apps on the iPad. Does Apple collecting data mean only my data, or also indirectly my child's data?

 

Ignorance doesn't stop things from happening. The lawsuit can bring this stuff to attention; however, unless the masses of sheople realize what is going on with the Internet, data collection metrics, etc..., then this type of activity will continue. People buying into smart home technology are opening themselves up to more than some app collecting data for advertisement purposes... Yes, drastic shift; however, still related.

[Okjoek]

Not a fan of Disney. They let down the glorious Pewdiepie.

[Sniperfox47]

4 minutes ago, Ryujin2003 said:

So... Then why don't people flip the hell out when Apple and Google collect data from devices that their children are using? Or the parent owned device that they download games for a child? It's the same thing. (And I'm not a lawyer either)

Because these devices, and the apps on these devices aren't marketed for kids.

 

If I make a lifestyle tracking app marketed towards adults for your phone that uses your IP address to geolocate you, tracks what times you're using the app, and use that location over time to determine where you live/work/go to school/do recreation, that's fine as long as I disclose that I'm collecting that and how I'm using it. If you let your kid use that app that's dumb of you as a parent, but that's not my responsibility as a company to deal with because the app was never meant to be used by your child.

 

If however I make the same app and colour it in bright bubbly colours, with cute little characters all over and market it towards an audience of 6-8 year olds, I need to get the parent's consent before collecting any of this data. Period.

 

The issue is not that these apps are collecting this data. The issue is that these apps *are specifically marketed to children* and are collecting this data.

[Tech_Dreamer]

33 minutes ago, Ryujin2003 said:

This is America, we don't generally do arranged or contract marriages.... But if it included tickets.. /s, sorry.@AluminiumTech

 

the fucking distance between those keys is too disturbing for a typo .

[NumLock21]

Is the data collecting only on smart devices, where they require you to download their app, to play those games or everywhere. I know where's my water 1 and 2 is on the windows store for the pc.l

[Doobeedoo]

Not even surprised. 

[Delicieuxz]

A Canadian sex toy company was recently sued in a USA court for collecting user information without consent, and they lost the case:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/14/we-vibe-vibrator-tracking-users-sexual-habits

 

So, there's precedent established in USA law that it is illegal to collect and use anyone's data without informing them that it is being done.

[vanished]

9 hours ago, mr moose said:

I would imagine if precedent is set and the law isn't really open to interpretation it would still be a pretty straight forward case.   I Mean, it's not like they are treading new ground where they are trying to apply new conditions to archaic laws.

It's always open to interpretation, what's why court and lawyers exist.  If everything was 100% of the time so obvious that everyone immediately agreed, we wouldn't even need trials.

9 hours ago, Droidbot said:

User under 13 accepting a legal document.. :thinking:

Under 18 really, but the point is parents are supposed to accept that.  Now it's up to the lawyers to debate if Disney acted correctly in presenting the terms and making sure parents read and agreed to them, or if they failed to to do and are at fault.

[Sniperfox47]

50 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

It's always open to interpretation, what's why court and lawyers exist.  If everything was 100% of the time so obvious that everyone immediately agreed, we wouldn't even need trials.

Under 18 really, but the point is parents are supposed to accept that.  Now it's up to the lawyers to debate if Disney acted correctly in presenting the terms and making sure parents read and agreed to them, or if they failed to to do and are at fault.

Considering at least Frozen Free Fall just says there are in-app purchases, asks you your age, and then continues unabated regardless of your answer, not disabling in-app purchases or telemetrics.... >.>

[vanished]

2 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Considering at least Frozen Free Fall just says there are in-app purchases, asks you your age, and then continues unabated regardless of your answer, not disabling in-app purchases or telemetrics.... >.>

lol well then they're probably gonna get hit hard then 

[Ryujin2003]

3 hours ago, Sniperfox47 said:

The issue is not that these apps are collecting this data. The issue is that these apps *are specifically marketed to children* and are collecting this data.

The parent purchases the device and allows the child to use it. The parent pays for the services that provide use of said device. I still absolutely believe that parents are responsible for their children usage.

 

Yes if I want your child's info, I should have permission from the parent. With the way I understand your stance, theterms of service for the app store, service provider (cellular or broadband), etc should then be forced to have different rules when a child puts their hands on the device since parents take no responsibility for their child's online activity.

 

Another view point: the parent owns the device. What about collecting data to find out why the parent sports downloading and using your app for a child. Maybe find ways to take the parents information to market additional products they may want for their child.

 

Why? Because 7 year olds don't work and don't generally pay by credit card

 

Parents are responsible for reaching their children about life. They are responsible for the child's activity everywhere. Online should be no exception.

 

Maybe better disclosure could be better. I mean, I looked at those apps, and they want access too nearly everything on my phone. I can only imagine what they would need access to my pictures and internet data for... Again, me being vigilant with respect to downloading apps.

2 hours ago, Tech_Dreamer said:

the fucking distance between those keys is too disturbing for a typo .

Between arranged marriage and tickets? The original comment had bride instead of bribe, with lifetime access tickets... so I was making a joke: that an arranged marriage might be worth it to me if it came with lifetime Disney access tickets. Sorry for the bad joke.

[Ryujin2003]

14 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

lol well then they're probably gonna get hit hard then 

Again, why parents need to supervise activity. My son doesn't downloading anything unless I approve it. Last thing I need is advertisements or another malicious app getting through Google Play Store.

[vanished]

1 minute ago, Ryujin2003 said:

Again, why parents need to supervise activity. My son doesn't downloading anything unless I approve it. Last thing I need is advertisements or another malicious app getting through Google Play Store.

Yeah that's very important when they're young.  On a slightly related note though, sometimes parents continue to overwatch and overcontrol like the kid is 7 well into the mid teens which isn't good for anyone....

[Ryujin2003]

4 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Yeah that's very important when they're young.  On a slightly related note though, sometimes parents continue to overwatch and overcontrol like the kid is 7 well into the mid teens which isn't good for anyone....

I try to be understanding of my child's wants, while at the same time understanding some of the risks involved in downloading random garbage from the internet. I do not want my child growing up ignorant like the parents of this lawsuit, who are probably the same people who fall for the fake Microsoft Tech Support scam.

 

Personal accountability and responsibility doesn't seem to be a priority anymore. It's easier to blame someone else.

[Mooshi]

If parents truly gave a shit about their children not being exploited online, they wouldn't give them a cell phone in the first place.

 

Or at the very least grant them full permission to roam wild without any parental blocks. I hope they lose and the judge tells the parents to be parents instead of blaming everyone else. Not saying I defend apps spying, but I'm against pointless lawsuits when the court system could be used to convict actual dangerous people.

 

Here's a solution. Either don't give your kid a smart phone or block app purchases from your carrier. OMG, what a crazy idea, right?

 

Edit: This message was typed while drinking coffee out of my fav Disney mug  

[Sniperfox47]

9 minutes ago, Ryujin2003 said:

Yes if I want your child's info, I should have permission from the parent. With the way I understand your stance, theterms of service for the app store, service provider (cellular or broadband), etc should then be forced to have different rules when a child puts their hands on the device since parents take no responsibility for their child's online activity.

Again, these services are not *marketed* as kids products. When you're marketing a product to kids the rules change entirely. I'm also not saying that parents shouldn't be responsible, just that responsible parenting should be assisted by strong laws to protect children. No matter how careful or protective a parent is, it's not particularly hard to de-anonymise anyone, even a child.

 

11 minutes ago, Ryujin2003 said:

Another view point: the parent owns the device. What about collecting data to find out why the parent sports downloading and using your app for a child. Maybe find ways to take the parents information to market additional products they may want for their child.

 

Why? Because 7 year olds don't work and don't generally pay by credit card

 

Parents are responsible for reaching their children about life. They are responsible for the child's activity everywhere. Online should be no exception.

Again, that's not allowed. You can't collect data on children because of how abusable that data is. Even assuming Disney didn't have malicious and abusive uses for that data, what if the people they sold it to did?

 

Unlike some laws, these laws exist for a reason.

[dalekphalm]

9 hours ago, Prysin said:

This does not surprise me. Ever since ESPN started tanking in revenue, Disney was losing HUGE money. Yes, you may not think so, but ESPN was Disneys real cash cow. It generated substantially more revenue then all other sectors, and when it started to heavily bleed subscribers last year, Disneys revenue plunged. This is why Disney stocks has barely moved up for over a year. The company is scrambling to find a new cash cow, and no, their movies are FAR from a cash cow. CGI effects and actors cost so much that they make very little revenue % wise compared to total expense.

Do you have any sources for that?

 

For example, Captain America Civil War had a production budget of about $250M USD. That would generally include actor fees plus the cost of CGI effects. That movie made $1.3B USD.

 

Most of Disney's major movies end up making bank way higher than the budget. Though the budget often does not include full publicity and marketing expenses - and by extension, the box office does not include merchandise sales nor DVD/Blu-Ray/Digital Download/Streaming revenue.

 

Some of their lesser known movies (Especially any direct-to-dvd movies and made-for-tv movies) might not make a lot of money, but those movies also have insignificant budgets compared to their major film releases.

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

It's always open to interpretation, what's why court and lawyers exist.  If everything was 100% of the time so obvious that everyone immediately agreed, we wouldn't even need trials.

Under 18 really, but the point is parents are supposed to accept that.  Now it's up to the lawyers to debate if Disney acted correctly in presenting the terms and making sure parents read and agreed to them, or if they failed to to do and are at fault.

Precedent and unambiguous language tends to reduce the range of perception. 

[Ryujin2003]

9 hours ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Again, these services are not *marketed* as kids products. When you're marketing a product to kids the rules change entirely. I'm also not saying that parents shouldn't be responsible, just that responsible parenting should be assisted by strong laws to protect children. No matter how careful or protective a parent is, it's not particularly hard to de-anonymise anyone, even a child.

 

Again, that's not allowed. You can't collect data on children because of how abusable that data is. Even assuming Disney didn't have malicious and abusive uses for that data, what if the people they sold it to did?

 

Unlike some laws, these laws exist for a reason.

Where is the international law stating you cannot?

[LAwLz]

I wonder if Disney will use the "those kids have nothing to fear if they got nothing to hide" argument which is popular these days.

[Sniperfox47]

4 hours ago, Ryujin2003 said:

Where is the international law stating you cannot?

Where does international law come in?

 

Disney is an American company being sued by an American citizen for breaking the law in America... >.>

[Ryujin2003]

2 hours ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Where does international law come in?

 

Disney is an American company being sued by an American citizen for breaking the law in America... >.>

International as in what about the impacts on people downloading it in other countries? Google Play Store isn't only American, and neither is Canada.

 

And I'm not saying gathering information on people is ok. I hate it. But our governments are so backwards in their thinking, it's very hard to get modern internet looked at and treated seriously. Awesome, let's look in American court. But what about American companies harvesting from Europe and vice versa? What if some British company was harvesting data from children? What if Disney apps took information from kids in France? American law is only a small piece of the huge puzzle that is the global internet of things.